NRA ILA ALERT- Nevada discontinuing CCW reciprocity with Utah and Florida

maestro pistolero · June 26, 2009, 01:17 PM

Due to be effective July 1st 2009. Boy, not much notice. I wonder if Ensign's weakened political position has enabled this to happen.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=5001

I wonder how long has this been in works, and who is responsible for these changes? I live in Nevada and I'm pretty active here. Perhaps I could make some calls. Sometimes these things can be headed off early. Once implemented, and allowed to stand for a while it becomes much more difficult. LET'S MAKE SOME NOISE!

It doesn't matter to me personally as I have a NV and Utah permit. I just hate to see ground lost on reciprocity.

If anyone needs to get Utah or Nevada CCW certification in the meantime, I can highly recommend Charles (Chuck) Bolding - NV and Utah certified LE and firearms instructor in the Las Vegas area. email: [email protected] and phone 702-278-2914

csmsss · June 26, 2009, 01:23 PM

Ensign was a senator. CCL reciprocity is a state, not federal issue. How would his current problems have anything to do with this?

maestro pistolero · June 26, 2009, 01:28 PM

He is still a Senator last time I checked. He only resigned from a leadership position. He is very pro-gun, is well liked, and he has (had) a lot of juice in the State. NV in many ways is like a small town. He could pick up the phone be very influential regardless of whether discussing a State or Federal issue.

vranasaurus · June 26, 2009, 01:35 PM

Did those states drop reciprocity with Nevada?

It could be a since you won't recognze our permits we won't recognize yours thing.

maestro pistolero · June 26, 2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

It could be a since you won't recognze our permits we won't recognize yours thing.

Fortunately, most states don't seem to play that way, especially Utah and Florida. NV seems to be following previously established policy, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

csmsss · June 26, 2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

He is still a Senator last time I checked. He only resigned from a leadership position. He is very pro-gun, is well liked, and he has (had) a lot of juice in the State. NV in many ways is like a small town. He could pick up the phone be very influential regardless of whether discussing a State or Federal issue.

Regardless, he is a senator, NOT a state legislator, Attorney General, nor Governor of Nevada. He has no authority in such matters and whatever has happened, is not his responsibility.

JustDreadful · June 26, 2009, 03:03 PM

He has no authority, but he most certainly did have influence. He'll have it again, if the state Republican party can keep its head.

Utah was dropped because it has no live-fire requirement, which is asinine, since the Nevada shooting qual is buffoonishly easy. I could pass it blindfolded.

Florida was dropped because its permits are good for 7 years, as opposed to 5 for NV. Which makes sense because...

yeah, well... I mean...

:barf:

divemedic · June 26, 2009, 04:02 PM

Florida doesn't have a live fire requirement either. Maybe that is it.

sholling · June 26, 2009, 09:33 PM

I doubt that this will last. Nevada's convention industry is suffering and they won't want to shoot their tourism industry in the foot.

ImprobableJoe · June 26, 2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Which makes sense because...

yeah, well... I mean...

Yeah... I'm not sure how that one works either, and I'm the most liberal, pro-gun control person I've seen on this site.

This, BTW, is the reason for my support for a federally-recognized licence. My FL drivers licence is good in Nevada, so why isn't a FL CCW? I'm much more likely to get into a car accident than I am to shoot anyone!

JustDreadful · June 26, 2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Nevada's convention industry is suffering and they won't want to shoot their tourism industry in the foot.

I very much doubt that this is anywhere on the convention authority's radar. The only show I can think of that this might possibly affect is SHOT. If conventions were a consideration we'd be the easiest state in the country to get a permit for, the AG would be working overtime to get non-resident reciprocity, no one would bother with UT or FL non-res permits anymore...

Al Norris · June 26, 2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImprobableJoe

My FL drivers licence is good in Nevada, so why isn't a FL CCW?

Your drivers license is recognized by Nevada, exactly because of reciprocity. The feds have never, ever, been involved with this issue. It is and always has been a States "Rights" issue.

JustDreadful · June 29, 2009, 02:12 AM

The way Floridians drive, perhaps we should revisit that issue as well

divemedic · June 29, 2009, 07:11 AM

Quote:

The way Floridians drive, perhaps we should revisit that issue as well

That is because SE Florida is mostly retired New Yorkers and other assorted yankees.

jfrey123 · June 29, 2009, 09:06 AM

From a Nevada resident:

This wasn't the act of the legislature or any of our horny and stupid leaders (Senator Ensign and Govenor Gibbons both)...

The ability and responsibility of policy regarding CCW was passed from the legislature to the Department of Public Safety (basically, the branch that runs highway patrol/capitol police). It's their job to keep track and make the rules regarding CCW. They decided to drop UT due to their lack of live fire (and here I though the requirement of a weapon handling course would be similar enough)... FL I'm not so sure about, but if they don't have life fire then they're probably gone (I think I remember hearing a story about a guy passing permit tests with an airsoft gun....?)

The whole deal for Nevada to recognize another state's permit is that the state must have similar criteria for issuing a permit to our own. Hopefully public outcry and threats of lost tourism will sway the DPS to change their mind.

If you or your friends are out of state UT or FL permit holders, I plea with you to visit their website, http://dps.nv.gov, and leave them a message telling them how you are upset with their decision to change the rules. The reciprocity with these states has held for years, no reason to change it now.

maestro pistolero · June 29, 2009, 11:03 AM

I am interested to know if there have been any issues, arrests, etc. whatsoever with licensees from these two states.

sholling · June 29, 2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

I very much doubt that this is anywhere on the convention authority's radar.

I don't disagree, but what I said was that with the convention industry hurting that Nevada can't afford to alienate tourists. That's the other part of the economic life blood of Nevada. Having narrowly escaped robbery once in Las Vegas I won't go back unarmed, and being a California resident I rely on my FL and UT non-resident permits. But it's no big deal in an economic down turn. Any excuse to not go there and blow money is a good excuse.

maestro pistolero · June 29, 2009, 06:06 PM

Getting a NV permit is not difficult, and it gets you quite a few states with reciprocity. NV dropped two states, but added two.

JustDreadful · June 30, 2009, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Getting a NV permit is not difficult, and it gets you quite a few states with reciprocity. NV dropped two states, but added two.

Yes, but the two states dropped are the two that people get so they can carry in the maximum number of states. That is, the two worst they could possibly have dropped. Most CCW classes in NV (in Vegas, anyway) include or offer UT and FL permit qualification; none that I'm aware of automatically offer any other states.

Quote:

I don't disagree, but what I said was that with the convention industry hurting that Nevada can't afford to alienate tourists.

And what I meant was that, if the convention authority (which takes its marching orders from the casinos) would get behind CCW reciprocity, the state coppers would buckle immediately, the NV Attorney General would craft reciprocity agreements with as many states as possible, as quickly as possible, and the NV non-resident permit would become the standard almost overnight. But I think it would be very difficult to demonstrate that the UT/FL permit issue is important to more than a tiny fraction of regular-Joe tourists. The big money players, of course, will carry guns if they want to and won't be hassled, just like they don't get hassled for hosting hookers-and-coke parties in their suites (and just like VIPs get issued carry permits in places like NYC and the People's Republic of North Kali, where average people who apply get laughed at).

maestro pistolero · June 30, 2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Yes, but the two states dropped are the two that people get so they can carry in the maximum number of states. That is, the two worst they could possibly have dropped. Most CCW classes in NV (in Vegas, anyway) include or offer UT and FL permit qualification; none that I'm aware of automatically offer any other states.

But even dropping UT and FLA, reciprocity with all the other states is unaffected. If you have NV and Utah, for example, you still have the same number of states covered, because NV dropped two and added two. If you have FLA, you have lost just one (NV). I don't like it either, but it's not the end of the world. All three of those states offer non-resident permits, BTW.

JustDreadful · June 30, 2009, 11:13 AM

Sure. This means nothing for NV residents. The problem is for non-residents who hold UT or FL permits, some of whom hold such permits specifically so they can carry in NV. Gabe Suarez, for example, has said he'll no longer hold classes in NV because of this (also not in and of itself the end of the world, of course, though I would like to take a Suarez class and would not like to drive Arizona's craptastic two-lane "highway" in order to do so). And how will this affect Vegas' ability to retain SHOT?

And the larger point that this is one more dumbass bureaucratic infringement on the right to carry, which will inconvenience law-abiding people to no purpose. Unless DPS can demonstrate that visitors with UT/FL permits were causing problems, all this amounts to is uselessly hassling people for the sake of hassling people. Alaska and Vermont have the only reasonable CCW systems.

To jfrey123, Florida was dropped because their permit is good for seven years, as opposed to NV's five. Those extra two years will result in slaughter that Pol Pot never dreamed of. Slaughter, I tell you!

maestro pistolero · June 30, 2009, 12:09 PM

It's more of the same crap we have to put up with until the courts sort it out, eventually. At least it is not 'right denied'. There IS a path to carry legally, and it is far from insurmountable for the time being.

I think that national reciprocity will be a natural outgrowth of forced right-to-carry restoration in recalcitrant states. In other words, we get incorporation, we get some type of right to carry in ALL of the individual states, then overcoming the barriers to reciprocity are much more possible.

JustDreadful · June 30, 2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

to no purpose

On reflection, I shouldn't have said that. The purpose is revenue. I'd bet (I wonder if any of the casinos have prop lines on these kinds of things?) that this is DPS saying "If non-residents want to carry in NV, they can apply for the NV non-resident permit, and pay the fee."

JustDreadful · June 30, 2009, 12:20 PM

Unless Nordyke or... er, the nunchaku-ninja-guy case, whatever it's called... substantially expand on Heller, I would not favor a federal CCW law. I think the chances that Washington's version would be less restrictive than Carson City's are slim, and I think the Feds would tend to become more restrictive over time.

model67a · June 30, 2009, 01:33 PM

There still is a bill pending on a national reciprocity law that he will have a vote on.

June 26, 2009, 01:17 PM	#1
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	NRA ILA ALERT- Nevada discontinuing CCW reciprocity with Utah and Florida Due to be effective July 1st 2009. Boy, not much notice. I wonder if Ensign's weakened political position has enabled this to happen. http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=5001 I wonder how long has this been in works, and who is responsible for these changes? I live in Nevada and I'm pretty active here. Perhaps I could make some calls. Sometimes these things can be headed off early. Once implemented, and allowed to stand for a while it becomes much more difficult. LET'S MAKE SOME NOISE! It doesn't matter to me personally as I have a NV and Utah permit. I just hate to see ground lost on reciprocity. If anyone needs to get Utah or Nevada CCW certification in the meantime, I can highly recommend Charles (Chuck) Bolding - NV and Utah certified LE and firearms instructor in the Las Vegas area. email: [email protected] and phone 702-278-2914

June 30, 2009, 11:13 AM	#21
JustDreadful Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2008 Location: Sin City Posts: 270	Sure. This means nothing for NV residents. The problem is for non-residents who hold UT or FL permits, some of whom hold such permits specifically so they can carry in NV. Gabe Suarez, for example, has said he'll no longer hold classes in NV because of this (also not in and of itself the end of the world, of course, though I would like to take a Suarez class and would not like to drive Arizona's craptastic two-lane "highway" in order to do so). And how will this affect Vegas' ability to retain SHOT? And the larger point that this is one more dumbass bureaucratic infringement on the right to carry, which will inconvenience law-abiding people to no purpose. Unless DPS can demonstrate that visitors with UT/FL permits were causing problems, all this amounts to is uselessly hassling people for the sake of hassling people. Alaska and Vermont have the only reasonable CCW systems. To jfrey123, Florida was dropped because their permit is good for seven years, as opposed to NV's five. Those extra two years will result in slaughter that Pol Pot never dreamed of. Slaughter, I tell you! Last edited by JustDreadful; June 30, 2009 at 12:06 PM.

June 30, 2009, 01:33 PM	#25
model67a Member Join Date: February 19, 2009 Posts: 38	national reciprocity There still is a bill pending on a national reciprocity law that he will have a vote on.

June 26, 2009, 01:23 PM	#2
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	Ensign was a senator. CCL reciprocity is a state, not federal issue. How would his current problems have anything to do with this?

June 26, 2009, 01:28 PM	#3
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	He is still a Senator last time I checked. He only resigned from a leadership position. He is very pro-gun, is well liked, and he has (had) a lot of juice in the State. NV in many ways is like a small town. He could pick up the phone be very influential regardless of whether discussing a State or Federal issue.

June 26, 2009, 01:35 PM	#4
vranasaurus Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2008 Posts: 1,184	Did those states drop reciprocity with Nevada? It could be a since you won't recognze our permits we won't recognize yours thing.

June 26, 2009, 03:03 PM	#7
JustDreadful Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2008 Location: Sin City Posts: 270	He has no authority, but he most certainly did have influence. He'll have it again, if the state Republican party can keep its head. Utah was dropped because it has no live-fire requirement, which is asinine, since the Nevada shooting qual is buffoonishly easy. I could pass it blindfolded. Florida was dropped because its permits are good for 7 years, as opposed to 5 for NV. Which makes sense because... yeah, well... I mean... :barf:

June 26, 2009, 04:02 PM	#8
divemedic Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2006 Posts: 1,310	Florida doesn't have a live fire requirement either. Maybe that is it.

June 26, 2009, 09:33 PM	#9
sholling Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 1999 Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California Posts: 4,261	I doubt that this will last. Nevada's convention industry is suffering and they won't want to shoot their tourism industry in the foot.

June 29, 2009, 02:12 AM	#13
JustDreadful Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2008 Location: Sin City Posts: 270	The way Floridians drive, perhaps we should revisit that issue as well

June 29, 2009, 09:06 AM	#15
jfrey123 Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2006 Location: Reno, NV. Posts: 1,026	From a Nevada resident: This wasn't the act of the legislature or any of our horny and stupid leaders (Senator Ensign and Govenor Gibbons both)... The ability and responsibility of policy regarding CCW was passed from the legislature to the Department of Public Safety (basically, the branch that runs highway patrol/capitol police). It's their job to keep track and make the rules regarding CCW. They decided to drop UT due to their lack of live fire (and here I though the requirement of a weapon handling course would be similar enough)... FL I'm not so sure about, but if they don't have life fire then they're probably gone (I think I remember hearing a story about a guy passing permit tests with an airsoft gun....?) The whole deal for Nevada to recognize another state's permit is that the state must have similar criteria for issuing a permit to our own. Hopefully public outcry and threats of lost tourism will sway the DPS to change their mind. If you or your friends are out of state UT or FL permit holders, I plea with you to visit their website, http://dps.nv.gov, and leave them a message telling them how you are upset with their decision to change the rules. The reciprocity with these states has held for years, no reason to change it now.

June 29, 2009, 11:03 AM	#16
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	I am interested to know if there have been any issues, arrests, etc. whatsoever with licensees from these two states.

June 29, 2009, 06:06 PM	#18
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	Getting a NV permit is not difficult, and it gets you quite a few states with reciprocity. NV dropped two states, but added two.

June 30, 2009, 12:09 PM	#22
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 2007 Posts: 2,153	It's more of the same crap we have to put up with until the courts sort it out, eventually. At least it is not 'right denied'. There IS a path to carry legally, and it is far from insurmountable for the time being. I think that national reciprocity will be a natural outgrowth of forced right-to-carry restoration in recalcitrant states. In other words, we get incorporation, we get some type of right to carry in ALL of the individual states, then overcoming the barriers to reciprocity are much more possible.

June 30, 2009, 12:20 PM	#24
JustDreadful Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2008 Location: Sin City Posts: 270	Unless Nordyke or... er, the nunchaku-ninja-guy case, whatever it's called... substantially expand on Heller, I would not favor a federal CCW law. I think the chances that Washington's version would be less restrictive than Carson City's are slim, and I think the Feds would tend to become more restrictive over time.