Powder for highest velocity in 9mm?

[griz]

I was running some Cor Bon 115 gr loads over the chrono and got over 1300FPS. What powder would come closest to matching this at sane pressures?

[Mike Irwin]

I just visited the Alliant Website, and they say Power Pistol will give 1280 fps.


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Smith & Wesson is dead to me.

If you want a Smith & Wesson, buy USED!

[This message has been edited by Mike Irwin (edited November 09, 2000).]

[Mikul]

If you look carefully at the Corbons, you'll notice how deeply the bullet is seated which is certain to increase velocity.

[WESHOOT2]

Vihtavuori 3N37, WAP, or AA7.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"

[Henry Bowman]

VV 3N37 will run a 115@1500ps, it's a listed load in the old VV load book..henry

[griz]

Thanks all. I haven't tried Vihtavuori powder before but I guess it's time.

[Tree Rat]

griz- Tried Vihtavuori to dupe hot factory .40S&W load in 155FP. I could not even get close to the published velocities shooting a USP. Went back and re-read the data and noticed that the test barrel used to develope the data was a 6 inch 1 and 16 twist. Not very realistic for real world expectation. I keep hearing about this Alliant Action Pistol. I'm going to sample some soon. Load safe. Tree Rat.

[Clark]

The Vihatavouri loadbooks are in "cip".
That is some kind of voodoo pressure unit.
I don't think it directly traces it's roots to the SAAMI requirements.

[Halo]

CIP isn't a pressure unit, it's the Commission Internationale Permanente, an association of European proof houses that has set cartridge specifications since the 1800s.

[George Helser]

Griz,

I have a very good answer for you. 25 years ago, magazines and loading manuals showed that 7.2 grs of Herco powder could propell a 115 gr bullet in 9x19 to 1400 fps (=500 ft-lbs of energy)in a 5" barrel. I have chronographed this load at about 1350 fps in a 4" barrel. It really does perform. I have fired about 5000 rounds in the past 25 years loading 6.7 to 7.2 grs without a serious pressure problem. The only problem is that 7.2 gr tends to fill a 9x19 case to the very top so it is easy to spill!
The icing on the cake is that this load has VERY little muzzle flash at night! It produces a very small dark orange flame, nothing compared to the bright fireball of other powders.

TRY IT! YOU WILL LIKE IT!

Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona

[jtduncan]

VV 3N37

[10mm]

Would anyone care to post the old VV load data here? Please. Or email it to me? The current data lists 1322 as the max velocity.

[WESHOOT2]

Please consider this fact: these loads exceed SAAMI maximums. I don't care, because I'm not afraid of blown up guns, but you might reconsider the need of an extra hundred feet per second.
Or not; just wear safety glasses.

IMO only fools work 'hot' without a chronograph. I know, I've been one.

[kidcoltoutlaw]

untill they changed the max loads for the 9mm hs-6 would give you over 1300 with a 115 jhp at less than max by the number ten speer book.not safe now.

[Clark]

I have spent hundreds of hours developing the max power 9mm load.

The limiting factor is the case is full, pierced primers, and bulged or blown cases. [I use a trigger string. Blown cases are expensive and dangerous.]

I recently developed loads with the following powders for 9mm 124 gr:
Bullseye
Unique
Power Pistol
HS-6
Blue Dot
2400"
3N37
800-X
AA#5
AA#7
AA#9
H110
LIL'GUN
Long Shot

I found, with my primitive pressure measurements, that Power Pistol win the performance contest.

In 147 gr 3N37 wins.

In gun destroying case falilures, AA#5 is so far past Bullseye, it just shows most people's intuition is wrong on this subject.


The recoil in a small 9mm can be worse than 44 mag full house loads. This makes 9mm nuke loads acedemic, as a normal person cannot take the recoil.

[Walt Welch]

Remember that VV powders are VERY temperature sensitive, and that one person broke a bolt on a UZI by using previously safe ammo in it which had been sitting in the sun.

Walt

[JohnK]

I've found HS6 to be the best for getting max velocity from the smaller calibers like the 9mm and 40 S&W.

Current Hodgdon manual lists 7.0gr of HS6 under a 115gr bullet at 1234fps. Speer manuals 11 and 12 list 7.5gr as max.

Vihtavuori lists 6.9gr of 3N37 under a 115 XTP for 1322fps


***WARNING OVER MAX DATA BELOW***
I've loaded up to 8.3gr in my Taurus PT92 using Winchester 115gr JHP's and gotten 1350fps without buldged cases flattened or pierced primers. This is obviously well above todays listed maxium and should not be used without working up from 7.0gr in your individual 9mm using a chronograph.

[George Helser]

Walt,

After 21 years of shooting & carrying 9x19 115 gr bullets backed by up to 7.2 grs of Herco (listed in manuals & magazines in the 70s, giving up to 1400 fps in a 4” barrel) I have just switched to up to 6.1 gr of VV-N340. The VV-N340 powder gives about 4% less velocity but has many advantages:
- Virtually zero flash! (Herco was pretty good but it is hard to believe how low the VV flash is.)
- +/- 1% variation in velocity whether precisely measured or using a powder measure (Herco was +/- 2-4%)
- Fouling is FAR less than I have ever seen with any other powder
- It is easier to load than Herco. VV fills the case 70% while the Herco fills the case 90-100%!

I live in Arizona and temperature is a concern. The VV manual has data on temp vs pressure and it looks very reasonable. I have been testing the VV-N340 powder for
months in all conditions to see if it should be suitable for carry. I have tested full power loads with ambient temp at 100F+ and the ammo in the sun on the hot desert ground (in a Ziploc bag) so it got very warm. I fired several mags of this heated ammo in a G26 and an HK P7 but found no signs of excess pressure. I also let this hot ammo sit in a very hot chamber with no signs of excessive pressure.

In summary, I am surprised that VV powder is not making headlines in the reloading articles. The low flash and low residue are 10X better than anything I have ever seen.
The velocity of N340 (the only VV powder I tested) is near the top of anything I have ever seen for 9x19 and 45 ACP!

Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona

P.S. Beware of published loading data in manuals. They often give data with test barrels
or barrels of longer length than you will use so the MV will look higher. You need to chronograph your loads in your arm.

P.P.S. Power Pistol cannot come close to the velocity of safe VV-N340 or Herco loads. Also, Power Pistol gives a blinding white flash. If anyone likes Power Pistol they will be far happier with Herco or VV-N340 for velocity and flash.

[Alaska Roy]

Uzis are famous for breaking, I broke three with 9mm SMG ammo! Roy