Mouse guns - .380 vs. .32

simonrichter · October 13, 2024, 08:39 AM

I basically own guns as safe pieces that only go out when taken to the range. The only exception is carrying on my somewhat remote properties (no carrying outside one's own premises where I live), where easy transporting between my different lodges without taking too much space and weight e.g. in a backpack is the main issue. I have a Ruger 57 which is amazingly lightweight, even with 20rds of ammo, but it is bulky. Long story short, a mousegun would be a nice-to-have addition. Yet, it's hard to find anything of that size and with a modern trigger, so I was happy to finally find an LCP at a decent price. My LGS has a range as well, and I got the chance to try it out. Well, what can I say, I'm used to shooting full-sized 9mm and 5.7 - I expected some extra kick, but that was not a pleasure at all. Not going to shoot that tiny extra gun twice a week, but still often enough to stay familiarized - and that's not something I would look forward with that bucking .380. In my opinion, that would be a huge argument in favor of .32 which is a small but still decently performing alternative, but obviously it fell out of favor entirely...

I really wonder why .380 has become so popular, but that's maybe because in the States it's much more likely to face an armed assailant where the actual punch counts as much as having a gun in the first place...

What are your thoughts? Anybody any experience with the KelTec P32, is it also kicking so hard?

9ballbilly · October 13, 2024, 08:57 AM

I recently picked up one of the new Lipseys S&W 632 UC (Ultimate Carry) J frames in .32 magnum, which will also fire .32 S&W and .32 S&W long. It's very compact with a 1 7/8" barrel and weighs just over 16 oz. empty. So far I'm very pleased with it.

if you're willing to consider a revolver it might be worth your time to look into one as recoil with .32 S&W or S&W long is not heavy.

simonrichter · October 13, 2024, 09:35 AM

I've indeed thought about that, but these .32 calibers are not or hardly available in Europe

Nathan · October 13, 2024, 11:22 AM

I’m struggling with your purpose of ownership here. 32 & 380 can both be fine guns.

That said, my go to standard for remote property carry…..varmints, pests, fun shooting and maybe self defense against animals or people would be a 38/357 4” S&W or Ruger revolver in a good holster.

I had a 32 Keltec. It was fine. It pocket carried easily, but was so small, it was hard to draw and shoot.

I have a CW380. It is a great ccw pocket gun. It’s advantage over most 32 & 380’s is it shoots much more like a full size pistol. It is still hard to load and 2 hands run out of area to grip. It is still quite shootable.

On top of all that if self defense against would be attacking humans is a purpose, smaller than 9mm is generally a bad place to start.

Quote:

I really wonder why .380 has become so popular, but that's maybe because in the States it's much more likely to face an armed assailant where the actual punch counts as much as having a gun in the first place...

I’m not sure of your US experience, but most Americans never experience violent crime face to face. Our media strengthens stories of violence to empower their big investors and political leanings.

Pilgrim86314 · October 13, 2024, 11:27 AM

Twenty years ago I bought a S&W Airlite Ti in .32 H&R Magnum for my wife. She finds it pleasant to shoot, with recoil less than, for example, a .38 Spl firing wadcutters. We believe that its six shots gives it an advantage over a five-shot Chief's Special in .38. It is small, and having a titanium frame, it weights just about as much a baby fart, that is, not much. Its a good gun for its purpose, especially for a woman or man who is recoil-sensitive.

reteach · October 13, 2024, 01:54 PM

simonrichter - The Glock 42 is a very shootable .380. It's larger than the LCP but I can carry mine in my fronts pants pocket. And if you're carrying it in a backpack that bit of extra size that shouldn't be a problem. Mine has been great as far as reliability and it shoots straight.

Here's a comparison of the two.

https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/...2-vs-ruger-lcp

ligonierbill · October 13, 2024, 02:33 PM

The Kel Tec P32 (Yes, I own one.) is pretty lively. It's virtue is that you can find a way to carry it when nothing else will fit. I don't know today's availability, but Mauser, FN, Walther, and Beretta all made fine 32s. I still have my HSc, which is a joy to shoot.

Outpost75 · October 13, 2024, 03:07 PM

Living in Austria you have access to better quality 7.65 Browning ammunition than we have in the US. Also, if I understand your laws correctly, you may not use hollow point loads for defense and are limited to FMJ. I expect that a carry permit for defense outside your home or business is difficult to get.

In your position I would seek a quality .32 ACP / 7.65 Browning.and use the Hirtenberg ammo of domestic manufacture for you.

Bill DeShivs · October 13, 2024, 03:44 PM

The Keltec P32 is the answer.

I carry one every day. We keep several around for carry.

If it is available there, the Keltec P17 is a lightweight 17 shot .22 LR pistol that is small ( not nearly as small as the P32) and lightweight.

simonrichter · October 13, 2024, 04:02 PM

Thanks a lot for the many replies so far -
- exactly, we can only use FMJ (although there appear to be some exceptions that I don't quite understand tbh)

- yes, since 7.65 used to be the standard LE caliber up until the 70ies, there are plenty of options but these are old, SA/DA models and quite heavy for their size. I once owned a CZ in 7.65 / .32 and it felt heavier than my G19.

- thanks for the input on the P32, it would have been my first thought as well but I wasn't sure whether it might even be snappier than a .380 because of the light weight...

Jim Watson · October 13, 2024, 06:09 PM

I shot my P32 on Friday in comparison with small .380s and 9mm P.
Its tiny grip and long travel double action only trigger make it hard to shoot well and its light weight amplifies the recoil - I was shooting Fiocchi ammunition which is at higher velocity than US brands.

If you want a pocket pistol, I recommend the Glock 42.

I think a .32 the size of the LCP and other miniature .380s would sell.

Bill DeShivs · October 14, 2024, 01:12 AM

The P32 IS the size of the LCP-only slightly smaller.
I have no trouble shooting the P32. It's a locked breech design, and that mitigates recoil somewhat.

Jim Watson · October 14, 2024, 03:17 PM

A good bit lighter, though.

**4V50 Gary** · October 14, 2024, 05:53 PM

It's easier to make a 7.65 Browning/32 ACP to work reliably than a .380/9mm Kurz. It's long & slim (7.65/32) v. short and fat (380/9mm). That said, you can have reliable .380/9mm Kurz and it's a designer/mfg issue if it doesn't.

Smallest I ever carried was 22 LR but that was a back-up piece.

Outpost75 · October 14, 2024, 08:03 PM

I don't know how well the Keltec P32 would hold up to full-charge Euro-CIP ammunition if shot very much. I would prefer a SIG P230 or P232 if you can find one in the 7.65mm caliber. Otherwise a Walther PP. Cz50 or Cz70 would be a good choice.

bamaranger · October 15, 2024, 12:21 AM

I'm a bit lost on the parameters and purpose of this mouse gun post.

Erno86 · October 15, 2024, 12:54 PM

My carry pistol is the S&W Shield in 30 Super Carry. It performs better than the 380 and has slightly less performance than the 9mm with less felt recoil.

Jim Watson · October 15, 2024, 01:18 PM

Quote:

I don't know how well the Keltec P32 would hold up to full-charge Euro-CIP ammunition if shot very much.

Mine gets Fiocchi which is stouter than domestic, but I don't shoot it a lot, it just isn't pleasant.

Bill DeShivs · October 15, 2024, 03:06 PM

The P32 holds up to hotter ammunition as well as most pistols.

Jim Watson · October 15, 2024, 04:11 PM

I ordered a rubber grip wrap for my P32 and am looking for a pinkie hook or +1 bottom.

smee78 · October 15, 2024, 09:34 PM

For a nice size 380 or 32, I do enjoy the Beretta 84 & 81. These two models are chambered for the 380acp & .32 ACP cartridge. The 81 (32acp)has a double-stacked magazine with 12 round capacity and the 84 (380) has a double-stacked magazine with 13 round capacity. They fit well in hand and are not full size but are not mouse guns either, I carry and shoot both and don't feel undergunned when going out with either.

Good luck with your decision.

bamaranger · October 16, 2024, 02:09 PM

Those Beretta's , at least the .380 was sold as a Browning BDA back in the day and were interesting pistols, a hi-cap .380, and I believe the only example of its kind.

Jim Watson · October 16, 2024, 02:37 PM

CZ82 is not far off the Beretta-Browning.

Missed you at lunch, Bamawife and Bamagrand were there.

simonrichter · October 17, 2024, 02:23 AM

thanks, any more P32 first hand experience?

Skans · October 17, 2024, 10:55 AM

I'm not sure why it should matter as to what kind of gun you carry being dependent on the likelihood of having a violent encounter. Using that logic, people who live in the safest places would only carry firearms chambered for .22 short, and people living in the most violent areas would carry nothing less powerful than 50AE.

With today's technology, it is easy enough for me to find handguns chambered for 9mm which easily fit in my pocket. Two that come to mind, which I own, are Boberg XR9-s (now made by Bond Arms) and Diamondback DB9. About the same size as most .380's. As for .32 caliber handguns - these are just not my thing. Perhaps I should reconsider?

October 13, 2024, 08:39 AM	#1
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 771	Mouse guns - .380 vs. .32 I basically own guns as safe pieces that only go out when taken to the range. The only exception is carrying on my somewhat remote properties (no carrying outside one's own premises where I live), where easy transporting between my different lodges without taking too much space and weight e.g. in a backpack is the main issue. I have a Ruger 57 which is amazingly lightweight, even with 20rds of ammo, but it is bulky. Long story short, a mousegun would be a nice-to-have addition. Yet, it's hard to find anything of that size and with a modern trigger, so I was happy to finally find an LCP at a decent price. My LGS has a range as well, and I got the chance to try it out. Well, what can I say, I'm used to shooting full-sized 9mm and 5.7 - I expected some extra kick, but that was not a pleasure at all. Not going to shoot that tiny extra gun twice a week, but still often enough to stay familiarized - and that's not something I would look forward with that bucking .380. In my opinion, that would be a huge argument in favor of .32 which is a small but still decently performing alternative, but obviously it fell out of favor entirely... I really wonder why .380 has become so popular, but that's maybe because in the States it's much more likely to face an armed assailant where the actual punch counts as much as having a gun in the first place... What are your thoughts? Anybody any experience with the KelTec P32, is it also kicking so hard? __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

October 13, 2024, 08:57 AM	#2
9ballbilly Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2008 Location: northeast Florida Posts: 624	I recently picked up one of the new Lipseys S&W 632 UC (Ultimate Carry) J frames in .32 magnum, which will also fire .32 S&W and .32 S&W long. It's very compact with a 1 7/8" barrel and weighs just over 16 oz. empty. So far I'm very pleased with it. if you're willing to consider a revolver it might be worth your time to look into one as recoil with .32 S&W or S&W long is not heavy. __________________ may God eternally bless the American Rifleman--- as long as one stands, resolute, liberty shall not perish. Last edited by 9ballbilly; October 13, 2024 at 09:26 AM.

October 13, 2024, 09:35 AM	#3
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 771	I've indeed thought about that, but these .32 calibers are not or hardly available in Europe __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

October 13, 2024, 03:44 PM	#9
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,101	The Keltec P32 is the answer. I carry one every day. We keep several around for carry. If it is available there, the Keltec P17 is a lightweight 17 shot .22 LR pistol that is small ( not nearly as small as the P32) and lightweight. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

October 13, 2024, 04:02 PM	#10
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 771	Thanks a lot for the many replies so far - - exactly, we can only use FMJ (although there appear to be some exceptions that I don't quite understand tbh) - yes, since 7.65 used to be the standard LE caliber up until the 70ies, there are plenty of options but these are old, SA/DA models and quite heavy for their size. I once owned a CZ in 7.65 / .32 and it felt heavier than my G19. - thanks for the input on the P32, it would have been my first thought as well but I wasn't sure whether it might even be snappier than a .380 because of the light weight... __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

October 13, 2024, 11:27 AM	#5
Pilgrim86314 Junior Member Join Date: October 12, 2024 Posts: 3	Twenty years ago I bought a S&W Airlite Ti in .32 H&R Magnum for my wife. She finds it pleasant to shoot, with recoil less than, for example, a .38 Spl firing wadcutters. We believe that its six shots gives it an advantage over a five-shot Chief's Special in .38. It is small, and having a titanium frame, it weights just about as much a baby fart, that is, not much. Its a good gun for its purpose, especially for a woman or man who is recoil-sensitive.

October 13, 2024, 01:54 PM	#6
reteach Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2016 Location: Texas Posts: 389	simonrichter - The Glock 42 is a very shootable .380. It's larger than the LCP but I can carry mine in my fronts pants pocket. And if you're carrying it in a backpack that bit of extra size that shouldn't be a problem. Mine has been great as far as reliability and it shoots straight. Here's a comparison of the two. https://www.handgunhero.com/compare/...2-vs-ruger-lcp

October 13, 2024, 02:33 PM	#7
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,641	The Kel Tec P32 (Yes, I own one.) is pretty lively. It's virtue is that you can find a way to carry it when nothing else will fit. I don't know today's availability, but Mauser, FN, Walther, and Beretta all made fine 32s. I still have my HSc, which is a joy to shoot.

October 13, 2024, 03:07 PM	#8
Outpost75 Member Join Date: October 4, 2024 Location: Potomac Highlands WV Posts: 69	Living in Austria you have access to better quality 7.65 Browning ammunition than we have in the US. Also, if I understand your laws correctly, you may not use hollow point loads for defense and are limited to FMJ. I expect that a carry permit for defense outside your home or business is difficult to get. In your position I would seek a quality .32 ACP / 7.65 Browning.and use the Hirtenberg ammo of domestic manufacture for you.

October 13, 2024, 06:09 PM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,155	I shot my P32 on Friday in comparison with small .380s and 9mm P. Its tiny grip and long travel double action only trigger make it hard to shoot well and its light weight amplifies the recoil - I was shooting Fiocchi ammunition which is at higher velocity than US brands. If you want a pocket pistol, I recommend the Glock 42. I think a .32 the size of the LCP and other miniature .380s would sell.

October 14, 2024, 01:12 AM	#12
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,101	The P32 IS the size of the LCP-only slightly smaller. I have no trouble shooting the P32. It's a locked breech design, and that mitigates recoil somewhat. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

October 14, 2024, 03:17 PM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,155	A good bit lighter, though.

October 14, 2024, 05:53 PM	#14
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,288	It's easier to make a 7.65 Browning/32 ACP to work reliably than a .380/9mm Kurz. It's long & slim (7.65/32) v. short and fat (380/9mm). That said, you can have reliable .380/9mm Kurz and it's a designer/mfg issue if it doesn't. Smallest I ever carried was 22 LR but that was a back-up piece. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 14, 2024, 08:03 PM	#15
Outpost75 Member Join Date: October 4, 2024 Location: Potomac Highlands WV Posts: 69	I don't know how well the Keltec P32 would hold up to full-charge Euro-CIP ammunition if shot very much. I would prefer a SIG P230 or P232 if you can find one in the 7.65mm caliber. Otherwise a Walther PP. Cz50 or Cz70 would be a good choice.

October 15, 2024, 12:21 AM	#16
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,788	lost and eating cake I'm a bit lost on the parameters and purpose of this mouse gun post.

October 15, 2024, 12:54 PM	#17
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,779	My carry pistol is the S&W Shield in 30 Super Carry. It performs better than the 380 and has slightly less performance than the 9mm with less felt recoil. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell Last edited by Erno86; October 15, 2024 at 01:04 PM.

October 15, 2024, 03:06 PM	#19
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,101	The P32 holds up to hotter ammunition as well as most pistols. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

October 15, 2024, 04:11 PM	#20
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,155	I ordered a rubber grip wrap for my P32 and am looking for a pinkie hook or +1 bottom.

October 15, 2024, 09:34 PM	#21
smee78 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,951	For a nice size 380 or 32, I do enjoy the Beretta 84 & 81. These two models are chambered for the 380acp & .32 ACP cartridge. The 81 (32acp)has a double-stacked magazine with 12 round capacity and the 84 (380) has a double-stacked magazine with 13 round capacity. They fit well in hand and are not full size but are not mouse guns either, I carry and shoot both and don't feel undergunned when going out with either. Good luck with your decision. __________________ We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are

October 16, 2024, 02:09 PM	#22
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,788	BDA Those Beretta's , at least the .380 was sold as a Browning BDA back in the day and were interesting pistols, a hi-cap .380, and I believe the only example of its kind.

October 16, 2024, 02:37 PM	#23
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,155	CZ82 is not far off the Beretta-Browning. Missed you at lunch, Bamawife and Bamagrand were there. Last edited by Jim Watson; October 16, 2024 at 02:42 PM.

October 17, 2024, 02:23 AM	#24
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 771	thanks, any more P32 first hand experience? __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

October 17, 2024, 10:55 AM	#25
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,320	I'm not sure why it should matter as to what kind of gun you carry being dependent on the likelihood of having a violent encounter. Using that logic, people who live in the safest places would only carry firearms chambered for .22 short, and people living in the most violent areas would carry nothing less powerful than 50AE. With today's technology, it is easy enough for me to find handguns chambered for 9mm which easily fit in my pocket. Two that come to mind, which I own, are Boberg XR9-s (now made by Bond Arms) and Diamondback DB9. About the same size as most .380's. As for .32 caliber handguns - these are just not my thing. Perhaps I should reconsider?