7.62 X 39 load

Unique · January 16, 2025, 11:20 AM

Gonna be playing around with this caliber for the first time.
I have 123 grain spire points on hand as well as these powders :
H322
H4895
H380
IMR 4350
H4227
IMR 4198
Anyone have any experiences with these powders ?
Just looking around for which ones will work, which ones will also be my best choices.
Thanks in advance

tangolima · January 16, 2025, 12:32 PM

4350 is a waste for this round. 4227 works fine.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Shadow9mm · January 16, 2025, 03:48 PM

Had an AK for a bit, tinkered with some loads, I used AA 1680, had really good results.

Looking in my Hornady manual it showed both of the following powders in the 2200fps bracket with 123g bullets. Personally, with the powder you have, I would start with the IMR 4198 based on its similar powder volume and velocity to AA 1680.

H322 28.5g max
IMR 4198 24.6g max

jetinteriorguy · January 16, 2025, 04:13 PM

AA1680, BLc-2, and H335 work well.

armoredman · January 16, 2025, 06:07 PM

AA 1680 is THE powder for 7.62x39mm if you can find some. I haven't loaded this round in some time, but I still have some data left over.
Only one I chronoed, out of a CZ 527M.
123gr Hor SP, 28gr H-4895, COAL 2.175 velocity 1934.1/30.75 SD, primer Rem 9.5.

gwpercle · January 16, 2025, 07:56 PM

IMR 4198 will be a good powder with those 123 gr. Spire Points ,
not too slow ... not too fast ... should be Baby Bear ... Just Right !
Gary

BJung · January 16, 2025, 08:15 PM

I've tried IMR 4198 and R7. Of the two, I like R7. I've placed 1" groups with both at 50 yards but have only shot a ladder test at 100 yards with both, but not a set of groups using both powders. Of the two, I prefer IMR R7. I bought some AA 1680 and plan to test this powder too. Published data only shows 4198, R7, and 1680 but I think you can get away with 4227 and cast bullets. The others are too slow. I shoot 123 and 150gr bullets through the sks.

Unique · January 16, 2025, 08:16 PM

Thank you

misser · January 16, 2025, 09:04 PM

4198

jetinteriorguy · January 19, 2025, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJung

I've tried IMR 4198 and R7. Of the two, I like R7. I've placed 1" groups with both at 50 yards but have only shot a ladder test at 100 yards with both, but not a set of groups using both powders. Of the two, I prefer IMR R7. I bought some AA 1680 and plan to test this powder too. Published data only shows 4198, R7, and 1680 but I think you can get away with 4227 and cast bullets. The others are too slow. I shoot 123 and 150gr bullets through the sks.

I’m curious if using 4227 that a magnum primer would be the way to go. I’ve never used it in rifle but in magnum pistols I’ve always had unburned powder in the barrel. Of course maybe in a rifles longer tube that’s not an issue with standard primers.

rc · January 19, 2025, 12:54 PM

W680 and AA 1680 were specifically designed for this cartridge. 4198 and 4227 will work but they are not optimum. Small rifle primer brass can squib on ball powder. Stick with large primer cases.

Shadow9mm · January 19, 2025, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rc

W680 and AA 1680 were specifically designed for this cartridge. 4198 and 4227 will work but they are not optimum. Small rifle primer brass can squib on ball powder. Stick with large primer cases.

Huh? Last I checked 6.5 grendel, and both the 22 and 6mm arc all use small rifle primers and all have plenty of load with ball powders and all 3 are based on the 7.62x39 case. Never heard of small rifle primers causing squibs with ball powders. I know magnums can help them burn better, give better es/sd, but that if a far cry from saying SRP are unsafe.

tangolima · January 19, 2025, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

Huh? Last I checked 6.5 grendel, and both the 22 and 6mm arc all use small rifle primers and all have plenty of load with ball powders and all 3 are based on the 7.62x39 case. Never heard of small rifle primers causing squibs with ball powders. I know magnums can help them burn better, give better es/sd, but that if a far cry from saying SRP are unsafe.

I was about to say the same thing. I don't think LRP is needed for the round.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

BJung · January 19, 2025, 01:39 PM

Many of these powders were designed or picked because of the 123 SP bullet weight. I shoot 150gr bullets and will test a slower powder to see if it will tighten my groups. Has anyone made a comparison?

armoredman · January 20, 2025, 06:08 AM

I had exactly 10 small primer 7.62x39mm brass, Remington IIRC. I didn't use them much, but they always seemed to work.
What comparison were you looing for, sir? I loaded 155 and 160 cast, as well as 129gr cast. Heck, still have the 129gr mold by NOE, great mold, bullets are sharp enough to poke you.

rc · January 20, 2025, 10:56 AM

Been over 25 since I made the observation. Don't remember the exact load that squibbed but 7.62 is not 6 or 6.5 mm which create more back pressure from the same parent case. Was probably 1680 powder with Winchester or cci small rifle primers in a Remington case. Could have been under sized 308 bullets in a 312 bore causing low pressure. Never had any issues with Winchester large rifle primers in Federal or Winchester brass using the same basic loads.

bamaranger · January 25, 2025, 01:02 PM

I've used H4198 for some time, following a magazine article written a number of years back appearing in the "Rifleman" when the x39mm cartridge first became popular in this country. My manuals show H4198 as similar to IMR 4198.

The Hornady SST 123 gr bullet has proven the most accurate projectile in my Ruger bolt rifle so chambered. I've also shot .308 dia GI 147 gr FMJ, 150 gr BTHP match and 150 gr FP (30-30) bullets from the little Ruger with minute of whitetail accuracy, but the SST of correct diameter wins the prize.

Quite a few years back I bought a can of pulled .308 tracer projectiles. The Remington small primer cases that I've accumulated get relegated to tracer rounds for my beater AK. Id rather not have to juggle primer pocket sizes for consistent loads and there's no mistaking the orange tipped tracers in a magazine. What a hoot!

stagpanther · January 25, 2025, 11:36 PM

4198 propelling 123 sst's has been one of my top 7.62 x 39 loads as well

rc · January 26, 2025, 10:54 AM

Oh, one other point. A small rifle primer is more prone to slam fire in some guns like the SKS with floating firing pin. The Mini 14 may work fine with small primers.

tangolima · January 26, 2025, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rc

Oh, one other point. A small rifle primer is more prone to slam fire in some guns like the SKS with floating firing pin. The Mini 14 may work fine with small primers.

There are NATO spec SRP. No problem.

Even LRP wasn't problem before with plenty of supplies. It has become an issue with recent LRP shortage. Having both broadens flexibility. One time I even considered converting 6.5 grendel brass to x39.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Tony2Shot · February 2, 2025, 11:10 PM

Shooters World Blackout is my choice for 150 gr and heavier bullets for highest velocity and thus energy for this caliber. From my 22" bolt action deer rifle a 150 JSP leaves the barrel at 2300 fps with 23 grains load at less than 43K PSI. My hunting load is 24.2 grains (49K PSI) at 2380 fps for 30-30 performance of nearly 1900 ft/lbs energy! I have a 170 gr gas checked bullet hardcast that with 22.5 grains Shooters World Blackout is at 2270 fps (22" barrel) for 1950 ft/lbs -- under 100 yards goes completely through a hog even at angled shots!

The greatest thing about this caliber in a heavy (8 lb) scoped rifle with this high performing powder is it gives 30-30 power with virtually No Recoil !!!

Here is the 123 gr (which I don't shoot) load data for 20" barrel (for 22" add about 50 fps extra):

123 gr
FMJ

Powder: BLACKOUT (Shooters World)
Primer: Large Rifle
Case: Sellier & Bellot
Trim Length:
C.O.L.: 56.000mm
Powder:
23.1 gr
25.5 gr
Vel.:
2,394
2,526
Press.:
51,100
Shooters World

this load for the 123 gr gives about 1750 ft/lbs

4198 and 1680 are good powders for the 123 gr (1680 gives 2475 fps and is very good powder in many other calibers also, especially the 357 Maximum, so I keep a lot of it in stock), but inadequate for the 150 gr (only 2100 fps or so). 2200 (Accurate) is also a top performer in the 123 gr - 125 gr range.

hope this helps

Tony2Shot · February 3, 2025, 01:40 AM

p.s. for above post -- rifle is Howa 1500 Mini 7.62x39 Black 22" HMA60702 that came with free Vortex 6-18 power scope!

Plinking round is economical 115 Tek bullet at about 2200 fps with 18.5 gr of good old SR-4759 (still have 7.5 lbs left from 2 eight pound jugs I bought 12 years ago at $120 each) -- low pressure so Starline brass can be reloaded over a dozen times. Bought the 115 Tek bullets years ago at $78 for 1000, the primers 10 years ago 5000 for $175 ($35 per 1000), so total cost for 1000 cartridges (less brass) is $78 bullets + $40 powder (2.64 lbs) + $35 primers = $153 ---- that makes it 15 cents per round, or $3 per box of 20!

https://www.snscasting.com/32-20-115...-coated-500ct/

load data from Lyman:

https://archive.org/details/LymanRel...p?view=theater

----------------------------------------------------------
handloading 45+ years

January 16, 2025, 11:20 AM	#1
Unique Member Join Date: May 22, 2017 Location: Central Texas Posts: 90	7.62 X 39 load Gonna be playing around with this caliber for the first time. I have 123 grain spire points on hand as well as these powders : H322 H4895 H380 IMR 4350 H4227 IMR 4198 Anyone have any experiences with these powders ? Just looking around for which ones will work, which ones will also be my best choices. Thanks in advance

January 16, 2025, 03:48 PM	#3
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 4,603	Had an AK for a bit, tinkered with some loads, I used AA 1680, had really good results. Looking in my Hornady manual it showed both of the following powders in the 2200fps bracket with 123g bullets. Personally, with the powder you have, I would start with the IMR 4198 based on its similar powder volume and velocity to AA 1680. H322 28.5g max IMR 4198 24.6g max __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload. Last edited by Shadow9mm; January 16, 2025 at 04:10 PM.

January 25, 2025, 01:02 PM	#17
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,800	"4198" I've used H4198 for some time, following a magazine article written a number of years back appearing in the "Rifleman" when the x39mm cartridge first became popular in this country. My manuals show H4198 as similar to IMR 4198. The Hornady SST 123 gr bullet has proven the most accurate projectile in my Ruger bolt rifle so chambered. I've also shot .308 dia GI 147 gr FMJ, 150 gr BTHP match and 150 gr FP (30-30) bullets from the little Ruger with minute of whitetail accuracy, but the SST of correct diameter wins the prize. Quite a few years back I bought a can of pulled .308 tracer projectiles. The Remington small primer cases that I've accumulated get relegated to tracer rounds for my beater AK. Id rather not have to juggle primer pocket sizes for consistent loads and there's no mistaking the orange tipped tracers in a magazine. What a hoot!

January 25, 2025, 11:36 PM	#18
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 12,973	4198 propelling 123 sst's has been one of my top 7.62 x 39 loads as well __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

January 16, 2025, 12:32 PM	#2
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 5,182	4350 is a waste for this round. 4227 works fine. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

January 16, 2025, 04:13 PM	#4
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,476	AA1680, BLc-2, and H335 work well.

January 16, 2025, 06:07 PM	#5
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,483	AA 1680 is THE powder for 7.62x39mm if you can find some. I haven't loaded this round in some time, but I still have some data left over. Only one I chronoed, out of a CZ 527M. 123gr Hor SP, 28gr H-4895, COAL 2.175 velocity 1934.1/30.75 SD, primer Rem 9.5.

January 16, 2025, 07:56 PM	#6
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,915	IMR 4198 will be a good powder with those 123 gr. Spire Points , not too slow ... not too fast ... should be Baby Bear ... Just Right ! Gary

January 16, 2025, 08:15 PM	#7
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 849	I've tried IMR 4198 and R7. Of the two, I like R7. I've placed 1" groups with both at 50 yards but have only shot a ladder test at 100 yards with both, but not a set of groups using both powders. Of the two, I prefer IMR R7. I bought some AA 1680 and plan to test this powder too. Published data only shows 4198, R7, and 1680 but I think you can get away with 4227 and cast bullets. The others are too slow. I shoot 123 and 150gr bullets through the sks.

January 16, 2025, 08:16 PM	#8
Unique Member Join Date: May 22, 2017 Location: Central Texas Posts: 90	Thank you

January 16, 2025, 09:04 PM	#9
misser Junior Member Join Date: June 19, 2024 Posts: 13	4198

January 19, 2025, 12:54 PM	#11
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,930	W680 and AA 1680 were specifically designed for this cartridge. 4198 and 4227 will work but they are not optimum. Small rifle primer brass can squib on ball powder. Stick with large primer cases.

January 19, 2025, 01:39 PM	#14
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 849	Many of these powders were designed or picked because of the 123 SP bullet weight. I shoot 150gr bullets and will test a slower powder to see if it will tighten my groups. Has anyone made a comparison?

January 20, 2025, 06:08 AM	#15
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,483	I had exactly 10 small primer 7.62x39mm brass, Remington IIRC. I didn't use them much, but they always seemed to work. What comparison were you looing for, sir? I loaded 155 and 160 cast, as well as 129gr cast. Heck, still have the 129gr mold by NOE, great mold, bullets are sharp enough to poke you.

January 20, 2025, 10:56 AM	#16
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,930	Been over 25 since I made the observation. Don't remember the exact load that squibbed but 7.62 is not 6 or 6.5 mm which create more back pressure from the same parent case. Was probably 1680 powder with Winchester or cci small rifle primers in a Remington case. Could have been under sized 308 bullets in a 312 bore causing low pressure. Never had any issues with Winchester large rifle primers in Federal or Winchester brass using the same basic loads.

January 26, 2025, 10:54 AM	#19
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,930	Oh, one other point. A small rifle primer is more prone to slam fire in some guns like the SKS with floating firing pin. The Mini 14 may work fine with small primers.

February 2, 2025, 11:10 PM	#21
Tony2Shot Junior Member Join Date: June 25, 2024 Posts: 3	Shooters World Blackout is my choice for 150 gr and heavier bullets for highest velocity and thus energy for this caliber. From my 22" bolt action deer rifle a 150 JSP leaves the barrel at 2300 fps with 23 grains load at less than 43K PSI. My hunting load is 24.2 grains (49K PSI) at 2380 fps for 30-30 performance of nearly 1900 ft/lbs energy! I have a 170 gr gas checked bullet hardcast that with 22.5 grains Shooters World Blackout is at 2270 fps (22" barrel) for 1950 ft/lbs -- under 100 yards goes completely through a hog even at angled shots! The greatest thing about this caliber in a heavy (8 lb) scoped rifle with this high performing powder is it gives 30-30 power with virtually No Recoil !!! Here is the 123 gr (which I don't shoot) load data for 20" barrel (for 22" add about 50 fps extra): 123 gr FMJ Powder: BLACKOUT (Shooters World) Primer: Large Rifle Case: Sellier & Bellot Trim Length: C.O.L.: 56.000mm Powder: 23.1 gr 25.5 gr Vel.: 2,394 2,526 Press.: 51,100 Shooters World this load for the 123 gr gives about 1750 ft/lbs 4198 and 1680 are good powders for the 123 gr (1680 gives 2475 fps and is very good powder in many other calibers also, especially the 357 Maximum, so I keep a lot of it in stock), but inadequate for the 150 gr (only 2100 fps or so). 2200 (Accurate) is also a top performer in the 123 gr - 125 gr range. hope this helps

February 3, 2025, 01:40 AM	#22
Tony2Shot Junior Member Join Date: June 25, 2024 Posts: 3	p.s. for above post -- rifle is Howa 1500 Mini 7.62x39 Black 22" HMA60702 that came with free Vortex 6-18 power scope! Plinking round is economical 115 Tek bullet at about 2200 fps with 18.5 gr of good old SR-4759 (still have 7.5 lbs left from 2 eight pound jugs I bought 12 years ago at $120 each) -- low pressure so Starline brass can be reloaded over a dozen times. Bought the 115 Tek bullets years ago at $78 for 1000, the primers 10 years ago 5000 for $175 ($35 per 1000), so total cost for 1000 cartridges (less brass) is $78 bullets + $40 powder (2.64 lbs) + $35 primers = $153 ---- that makes it 15 cents per round, or $3 per box of 20! https://www.snscasting.com/32-20-115...-coated-500ct/ load data from Lyman: https://archive.org/details/LymanRel...p?view=theater ---------------------------------------------------------- handloading 45+ years