USAF Baby Browning

simonrichter · November 1, 2018, 04:36 PM

Several web sources claim that the Baby Browning was used by the USAF in the 1960ies, supposedly as part of the pilot survival kit. Can anybody here substantiate (or debunk) that story?

http://oldschoolguns.blogspot.com/20...5-acp.html?m=1

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Baby_Browning

Bill DeShivs · November 1, 2018, 04:48 PM

I have never heard this.
It would be hard to imagine a worse survival pistol, unless weight and size were factors.

simonrichter · November 1, 2018, 05:24 PM

Exactly my thoughts - I reckon this is some kind of misinformation that was simply copied from source to source, but one can never be sure...

TxFlyFish · November 1, 2018, 06:17 PM

That would be interesting but you’d see a few of these floating around on the surplus market like the 22 survival rifles

ifithitu · November 1, 2018, 06:53 PM

I can't say it wasn't,but it's hard to believe it was part of the USAF survival kit.

RJay · November 1, 2018, 07:11 PM

I have read quite a bit about the Air Force survival kits, and never a mention of the baby Browning. There is a lot I don't know but I;m betting against it

RC20 · November 1, 2018, 07:36 PM

Agreed. Jame Bond yes, USAF, no

FireForged · November 1, 2018, 07:51 PM

Quote:

It would be hard to imagine a worse survival pistol, unless weight and size were factors.

he did say it was aircraft related

**Aguila Blanca** · November 1, 2018, 09:45 PM

My uncle was a bomber pilot in WW2. He died several years ago so I can't ask him, but I'm pretty certain he carried an M1911A1.

And there is the (verified) story of the pilot who was strafed by a Japanese Zero after he had bailed out of his aircraft, and he shot down the Zero with an M1911A1.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...id=enews060311

https://www.wearethemighty.com/histo...-with-his-1911

USNRet93 · November 2, 2018, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonrichter

Several web sources claim that the Baby Browning was used by the USAF in the 1960ies, supposedly as part of the pilot survival kit. Can anybody here substantiate (or debunk) that story?

http://oldschoolguns.blogspot.com/20...5-acp.html?m=1

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Baby_Browning

NOT USAF but USN aviator from early 70s thru early 90s and the 'issued' handgun, if we got one, was a S&W Model 10, .38 revolver..same handgun we 'qualified' with for that teeny ribbon. My first squadron 'open purchased' about 30 S&W model 39s but had to turn those back in.
Main point was the 'handgun' also came with tracers, for signaling, not necessarily for shooting enemies.

Sea story, my last squadron cruise, second CV to go north of Libya's 'line of 'death', after we shot down 2 Libyan Migs..we were allowed to bring our own handgun and carry if we had a 'green ink' day..Most had small revolvers(1989), lots had Model 39s..one guy had an Uzi..

pkevinb · November 2, 2018, 09:22 AM

Sea story, my last squadron cruise, second CV to go north of Libya's 'line of 'death', after we shot down 2 Libyan Migs..we were allowed to bring our own handgun and carry if we had a 'green ink' day..Most had small revolvers(1989), lots had Model 39s..one guy had an Uzi..

What ship and squadron? I was VA-35 on board Nimitz, and I think that might have been our cruise.

USNRet93 · November 2, 2018, 09:49 AM

Quote:

=pkevinb;6662494

What ship and squadron? I was VA-35 on board Nimitz, and I think that might have been our cruise.

VF-31 onboard USS Forrestal...

raimius · November 3, 2018, 06:04 PM

It might have originated from a pilot carrying a non-issue pistol. There are plenty of stories from Vietnam where guys carried something odd or a backup. (One pilot managed to escape after shooting an enemy with a .22 revolver during a CSAR event)

**4V50 Gary** · November 3, 2018, 07:36 PM

Never heard of a Baby Browning being issued by the USAF. They'd disappear muy pronto.

dogtown tom · November 4, 2018, 07:13 PM

The easiest to find reference to Baby Browning's use by the USAF was on this Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Baby_Browning

Quote:

Service history
Used by French Resistance, USA Air Force
Wars World War II

AND a few articles:
https://www.idahostatejournal.com/th...42e4c1ce9.html

https://steemit.com/technology/@dart...-baby-browning

http://www.gunsopedia.com/Baby_Browning

Notice that its always "French Resistance and the US Air Force"?
Seems to just be a pattern of inadequate research getting repeated by writers for decades.

Bill DeShivs · November 4, 2018, 09:15 PM

Respectfully, Tom- none of those references are very convincing. Anyone can write a Wikipedia article.
2 of them were written by someone who knows nothing about the Browning .25.
None of them give any references to the USAF use, except mentioning it.
I still don't think they were ever USAF issue.

amd6547 · November 4, 2018, 11:22 PM

It wouldn’t surprise me if they kept a few for special situations. Just like they issue a suppressed 22 on occasion.

T. O'Heir · November 5, 2018, 01:57 PM

"...James Bond yes..." Jimmy carried a Walther, but preferred a Beretta 418.
Air Force types would not have the skill required for a .25 ACP. Don't believe anybody would issue a .25 ACP to anybody either.

simonrichter · November 5, 2018, 02:57 PM

Even for a last-ditch backup, a Baby Browning would perform laughably weak. The High Standard HDM makes more sense, and even that was CIA and not USAF issued...

Btw, here is what the USAF is in fact fielding as an Air Crew Self Defense Weapon!

walnut1704 · November 5, 2018, 06:32 PM

I was a couple of years too young for Vietnam, but I was around, and I know the survival kit was a vest. The firearm was carried separately and was not really part of the kit.

Ammunition was included in the kit. The standard firearm was a .38 revolver. Of course most pilots being officers had the option for a personal firearm and I knew pilots (fathers of friends) who did carry personal weapons. I suppose there was probably a pilot somewhere who had a Baby Browning but I promise you there wasn't a combat pilot carrying one unless it was a second gun. My best friend's dad carried a Browning HiPower and a S&W lightweight .38 (Model 37) because there was .38 ammo in the vest.

dogtown tom · November 5, 2018, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Bill DeShivs Respectfully, Tom- none of those references are very convincing. Anyone can write a Wikipedia article.
2 of them were written by someone who knows nothing about the Browning .25.
None of them give any references to the USAF use, except mentioning it.
I still don't think they were ever USAF issue.

Respectfully, Bill- You have so completely missed the point of my post that I fear for you and the safety of others of you were handed a Baby Browning.

Maybe, you need to reread what I wrote.

I'll edit that post to make the relevant portion adult size.

Drm50 · November 5, 2018, 08:53 PM

I can't believe AF would have issued a BB 25acp for anything. Not to badmouth the quality of a Browning but any 25acp would only be good to stick in your own
ear to avoid being taken alive. When I was in RVN I saw pilots carrying 38 & 45s
Govt issue. I also saw them with personal weapons from S&W 357s, Hi-Powers
even Ruger Std auto 22s. Never was around fighter pilots I don't know what they
carried. I have a Navy pilots survival vest that has sewn in holster. I have herd
they were made up to pilots request by Riggers who had the equippment to sew
parachutes and such. I use it for a fishing vest. I carried a S&W 422 in it while
wade fishing. I think it was made for a 38 revolver.

Bill DeShivs · November 6, 2018, 12:38 AM

Tom- I honestly did not see that portion of your post! I apologize.

dogtown tom · November 6, 2018, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Bill DeShivs Tom- I honestly did not see that portion of your post! I apologize.

None needed.

USNRet93 · November 7, 2018, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drm50

I can't believe AF would have issued a BB 25acp for anything. Not to badmouth the quality of a Browning but any 25acp would only be good to stick in your own
ear to avoid being taken alive. When I was in RVN I saw pilots carrying 38 & 45s
Govt issue. I also saw them with personal weapons from S&W 357s, Hi-Powers
even Ruger Std auto 22s. Never was around fighter pilots I don't know what they
carried. I have a Navy pilots survival vest that has sewn in holster. I have herd
they were made up to pilots request by Riggers who had the equippment to sew
parachutes and such. I use it for a fishing vest. I carried a S&W 422 in it while
wade fishing. I think it was made for a 38 revolver.

I'll have to look to dig mine out but that pouch right on the front is a holster.

I carried a little .38 snub nose in my Gsuit pocket. Many guys carried full size SA.

November 1, 2018, 04:36 PM	#1
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 771	USAF Baby Browning Several web sources claim that the Baby Browning was used by the USAF in the 1960ies, supposedly as part of the pilot survival kit. Can anybody here substantiate (or debunk) that story? http://oldschoolguns.blogspot.com/20...5-acp.html?m=1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Baby_Browning __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

November 1, 2018, 04:48 PM	#2
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,106	I have never heard this. It would be hard to imagine a worse survival pistol, unless weight and size were factors. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

November 1, 2018, 05:24 PM	#3
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 771	Exactly my thoughts - I reckon this is some kind of misinformation that was simply copied from source to source, but one can never be sure... __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223

November 1, 2018, 06:53 PM	#5
ifithitu Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2016 Location: Derby City KY. Posts: 243	I can't say it wasn't,but it's hard to believe it was part of the USAF survival kit. __________________ USMC Vietnam Veteran,0311 Grunt. 6/68 to 7/69 Semper Fi

November 1, 2018, 07:36 PM	#7
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,334	Agreed. Jame Bond yes, USAF, no __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

November 1, 2018, 06:17 PM	#4
TxFlyFish Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Posts: 1,246	That would be interesting but you’d see a few of these floating around on the surplus market like the 22 survival rifles

November 1, 2018, 07:11 PM	#6
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	I have read quite a bit about the Air Force survival kits, and never a mention of the baby Browning. There is a lot I don't know but I;m betting against it

November 1, 2018, 09:45 PM	#9
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 19,049	My uncle was a bomber pilot in WW2. He died several years ago so I can't ask him, but I'm pretty certain he carried an M1911A1. And there is the (verified) story of the pilot who was strafed by a Japanese Zero after he had bailed out of his aircraft, and he shot down the Zero with an M1911A1. https://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs...id=enews060311 https://www.wearethemighty.com/histo...-with-his-1911 Last edited by Aguila Blanca; November 1, 2018 at 09:51 PM.

November 2, 2018, 09:22 AM	#11
pkevinb Member Join Date: May 26, 2017 Location: Northwest PA Posts: 27	Sea story, my last squadron cruise, second CV to go north of Libya's 'line of 'death', after we shot down 2 Libyan Migs..we were allowed to bring our own handgun and carry if we had a 'green ink' day..Most had small revolvers(1989), lots had Model 39s..one guy had an Uzi.. What ship and squadron? I was VA-35 on board Nimitz, and I think that might have been our cruise.

November 3, 2018, 06:04 PM	#13
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	It might have originated from a pilot carrying a non-issue pistol. There are plenty of stories from Vietnam where guys carried something odd or a backup. (One pilot managed to escape after shooting an enemy with a .22 revolver during a CSAR event)

November 3, 2018, 07:36 PM	#14
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 22,301	Never heard of a Baby Browning being issued by the USAF. They'd disappear muy pronto. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

November 4, 2018, 09:15 PM	#16
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,106	Respectfully, Tom- none of those references are very convincing. Anyone can write a Wikipedia article. 2 of them were written by someone who knows nothing about the Browning .25. None of them give any references to the USAF use, except mentioning it. I still don't think they were ever USAF issue. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

November 4, 2018, 11:22 PM	#17
amd6547 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 2,320	It wouldn’t surprise me if they kept a few for special situations. Just like they issue a suppressed 22 on occasion. __________________ The past is gone...the future may never happen. Be Here Now.

November 5, 2018, 01:57 PM	#18
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...James Bond yes..." Jimmy carried a Walther, but preferred a Beretta 418. Air Force types would not have the skill required for a .25 ACP. Don't believe anybody would issue a .25 ACP to anybody either.

November 5, 2018, 02:57 PM	#19
simonrichter Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 771	Even for a last-ditch backup, a Baby Browning would perform laughably weak. The High Standard HDM makes more sense, and even that was CIA and not USAF issued... Btw, here is what the USAF is in fact fielding as an Air Crew Self Defense Weapon! __________________ "Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski . ISSC PAR .223 Last edited by simonrichter; November 5, 2018 at 05:43 PM.

November 5, 2018, 06:32 PM	#20
walnut1704 Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2009 Posts: 156	I was a couple of years too young for Vietnam, but I was around, and I know the survival kit was a vest. The firearm was carried separately and was not really part of the kit. Ammunition was included in the kit. The standard firearm was a .38 revolver. Of course most pilots being officers had the option for a personal firearm and I knew pilots (fathers of friends) who did carry personal weapons. I suppose there was probably a pilot somewhere who had a Baby Browning but I promise you there wasn't a combat pilot carrying one unless it was a second gun. My best friend's dad carried a Browning HiPower and a S&W lightweight .38 (Model 37) because there was .38 ammo in the vest.

November 5, 2018, 08:53 PM	#22
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,497	I can't believe AF would have issued a BB 25acp for anything. Not to badmouth the quality of a Browning but any 25acp would only be good to stick in your own ear to avoid being taken alive. When I was in RVN I saw pilots carrying 38 & 45s Govt issue. I also saw them with personal weapons from S&W 357s, Hi-Powers even Ruger Std auto 22s. Never was around fighter pilots I don't know what they carried. I have a Navy pilots survival vest that has sewn in holster. I have herd they were made up to pilots request by Riggers who had the equippment to sew parachutes and such. I use it for a fishing vest. I carried a S&W 422 in it while wade fishing. I think it was made for a 38 revolver.

November 6, 2018, 12:38 AM	#23
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 11,106	Tom- I honestly did not see that portion of your post! I apologize. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com