.303 Enfield help a guy out

[2wheelwander]

The Enfield has always interested me and thought of adding one to my closet for some time, but I know next to nothing about them. Supposed to be accurate and was a combat rifle for its time. Was recently at a friend's house who showed me his and was thoroughly impressed. What a well made rifle.

I'd like to have one with the fold up sights and a bayonet, good-very good conditions also understanding these are very old firearms. I know they aren't incredibly expensive, but knowing nothing what to look for aside from a nice bore, I'm lost. Following gunbroker hadn't taught me a lot. I don't know the difference between model 1-4, etc.

Just looking for a nice rifle I can pull out and shoot. I reload so that isn't an issue. Advice??

TIA

[jcj54]

Best look for a Number 4 Mk1.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1057173158
This is a good example.

[G.O. West]

Number 5's (jungle carbines) are my favourite.

[veprdude]

Ishapore models are interesting in that you can shoot easily found 308/7.62 NATO and still get the Enfield experience.

[FrankenMauser]

There isn't much difference between the No 1 through No 4, as far as practical usage, until you get to the No 4 Mk 2. The final iteration moved the trigger and sear to the receiver, rather than being fixed to the trigger guard. As such, they can have much better triggers.

Otherwise, just buy the one that has the "right" look for you, and run with it.

No 4 Mk 1 is the best bang for your buck. Just don't buy one that looks ratty. A lot of those on the market right now, that have no finish and heavily abused wood, are RTI rifles from the goat shed in Ethiopia and have horrendously bad bores.

The vast majority of "Jungle Carbines" are fakes - often pretty poorly done fakes. So I wouldn't even glance that direction, unless you *really* want one and can do the research to know what you're looking at.

[tangolima]

I have a few. No 1 Mk 3 made in England in 1917 is my favorite for its "Britishness". It was sporterized when I got it, and managed to restore it. I don't care much about the Indian version in .308, nor the jungle carbine. They are just... not British enough for me.

I also have a sporterized long Lee. It was made during Queen Victoria's realm. There is no riflings left in the bore. But I was told it had polygonal rifling, so there is hope. I will get to it one day.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[hammie]

@2wheel: Every #4 that I've owned has had grossly oversized chambers. And I do mean grossly. If you're not a reloader then it's no big deal. (Although the supply of surplus .303 ammunition has long since dried up, and current commercial production is expensive and sometimes hard to find.) However, if you do plan to reload, then forget it. The brass will likely be a one time through. If you're just looking for the British military rifle experience, then I would consider finding a pattern 14 Enfield. They don't seem to have the oversize chamber problem.

If you're wanting the "British colonial experience" instead, then go to Uberti's website and look at the Courteney Stalking Rifle, chambered for .303 British. It's a copy of the 1885 Winchester, high wall. You can buy one of those and pretend you're Denys Finch Hatton, flying around Kenya in your Gypsy Moth, hunting big game and romancing Baroness Karen von Blixen. That .303 Uberti is a beautiful rifle, but that African fantasy will cost you around 1800 $. It would be much cheaper to read a Robert Ruark novel, or watch the movie,"Out of Africa".

Another possibility for a .303 is a Ruger #1. Around 2010, Ruger made a run of #1-A's, chambered for .303 British. Many of them went to Canada, but I think about 250 of them stayed stateside. People must be hanging on to them, though. I haven't looked very hard, but I don't recall seeing any .303, #1-A's on the secondary market.

[2wheelwander]

Greatly appreciate the advice here. I don't have a desire to own a jungle or sporterized model model, but one resembling the old school WW1/WW2 rifles. The No.4 and up seems to fit the bill.

Not knowing the differences in models, it's good to know not much different between the No. 1-4. That was one of my biggest concerns, was one more sought after than another.

[jcj54]

No1 MkIii has the sight on the barrel.
No4 MkI has the sight on the receiver.
Having shot both, I find the No 4 easier to shoot because of the perp sight.

[Outpost75]

I would seek a No.4 Mk1* by Long Branch Canada or Savage. A postwar Fazakerly UK is also OK.

[Jim Watson]

I also have a sporterized long Lee. It was made during Queen Victoria's realm. There is no riflings left in the bore. But I was told it had polygonal rifling, so there is hope. I will get to it one day.

I once read of Australian target shooters looking for NOS Long Lee Enfield barrels to fit to their SMLEs and No 4s.

The Lee Metfords had "polygonal" rifling that turned out to erode rapidly with Cordite. So they went to five groove Enfield rifling.

[44 AMP]

The .303 British was the British service rife round from 1888 into the `1950s. Originally loaded with black powder, it was changed to Cordite in the early 1890s.

The SMLE was adopted in Dec 1902 as the Rifle No.1 Mark I Short Magazine Lee Enfield.

The most common WW I version was the Rifle No.1 Mark III (and Mk III*).
(the sights are on the barrel)

The WWII version was the Rifle, No.4 Mark I. (the sights are on the receiver)

There are many other variations, and the British nomenclature system is a bit complex.

The .303 SMLE rifles saw service in every part of the British Empire and later the Commonwealth. Many were manufactured in Commonweath nations or former colonies. Canada, Australia, and India all produced variants at different times, for different wars.

The .303 basically filled the same role for the Commonweath that the .30-06 did in the US, the standard service rifle and machine gun round and very popular with hunters as well.

The .303 has a working pressure of about 45,000psi and will throw a 180gr -ish bullet into the 2400fps range. Top loads with the 215gr slugs will get you past 2100, maybe even to 2200fps from the usually 25" SMLE barrel.

I reload so that isn't an issue. Advice??

My advice is stick to the standard loads, GI milspec or equivalent, don't hot rod the round. The SMLE rifles use a rear locking action. Most are now well over a century old and were made for the British military rounds.

The .303 British is notorious for a short case life and head separtions are fairly common much earlier than other rifle rounds. Some say this is due to the rear locking action being prone to stretch and flex, but personally I think that has little to do with it.

I think the reason is that the case headspaces on the rim, and SMLE (and other) military chambers are "generous" and the cases often stretch quite a bit. FL resizing and an oversize chamber result in the brass being worked a lot, and having a short reloadable lifespan.

The .303 is the only rifle round I neck size, and even then case life is not long, if you get 5-6 reloads shooting from an SMLE you're doing good. There are always exceptions but getting one is serendipity.

I used to FL size "once fired" brass I bought, but stopped bothering after one round had a compete head separation on its first (by me) firing.

Now, if I get any once fired brass, I just chamber it, and if it fits, neck size load and shoot. FL sizing is reserved for cases that won't chamber in either my WWI or WWII SMLEs and all fired brass is closely watched for signs of failure.

I would recommend you avoid "once fired" brass for the .303, unless it is essentially free, I stopped buying it long ago, and these days use only brass from factory rounds I've fired in my guns, or new factory brass for reloading.

Nominal bullet diameter is .311-.312", but large variations in bore and groove diameter can be found, so its a good idea to find out what your barrel actually is.

Hope this helps. There's entire books on the .303 and the rifles, interesting reading if its your thing.

[Jim Watson]

SMLE (and other) military chambers are "generous" and the cases often stretch quite a bit. FL resizing and an oversize chamber result in the brass being worked a lot, and having a short reloadable lifespan.

Right. The Krag has a lot of limitations, including a single locking lug, but not a trench mud chamber, so you don't hear about such problems with it.

I have wondered why the Lee Enfield has rear locking lugs where the parent Remington Lee has front lugs. But I looked it up and the Remington Lee started out with rear lugs and did not get front lugs until 1899 when the British were all ready stuck in with their version.

Seems the No 1 and No 4 would benefit from Slamfire grease to fireform, then neck or partial size only.

[seanc]

Prvi Partizan/PPU ammo is relatively affordable 303 ammo. My old hunting partner took many a deer with their soft points.

My friends Enfield was sporterized, but what I recall was how smooth the action was. I don't know if they're all like that or if his was smoothed out in the sporterizing process. For all the virtues you hear about Enfields, the smooth action hasn't been highlighted nearly as much as it should if they'll all like that.

[eastbank]

just remember they were a servce rifle, made to take very bad conditions on the battlefield and still fire. i have owned quite a few over the years and now own three. a real 1945 mk 5 jungle carbine a 1943 mk4 long branch and my favorite a 1943 lithgow mk-3 with bayonets for all three. they are all in next to ex condition. mine all shoot the .311 dia bullets very well at 2200-2300 fps. i,m working on a mk4 sniper with all attachments in its shipping box, it,s going to be very expensive, but i want it.

[G.O. West]

When I was a teenager in highschool, all the boys had to target practice in the school basement gun range. We had SMLE number 1's made in 1918 by BSA. The barrels are sleeved to 22 long rifle, and a different bold face is installed. Single shot, of course. If we misbehaved, we had to run around the track with the rifle held over our head. Later on I got one of those when the schools quit having cadets. (That was a long time ago!) This is my rifle pictured here.

[44 AMP]

My friends Enfield was sporterized, but what I recall was how smooth the action was. I don't know if they're all like that or if his was smoothed out in the sporterizing process.

While your friend's sporter may have been slicked up a bit, generally speaking all SMLEs are very slick working compared to most bolt actions.

The rear locking bolt and particularly the cock on closing action account for most of the 'slickness"

[2wheelwander]

All this info is what i was asking for. Thank you Gentlemen.

Leaning towards a N0.4 Mk 1

[eastbank]

good choice.

[5whiskey]

FWIW, I can often get 3-4 firings out of .303 brass in a no4 mk1. I don't load hot and I size as little as possible (should have gotten a neck sizer but didn't). 3-4 isn't bad... plus I got my brass (and a lot of it) on sale!