What bushing to use?

Grant 14 · November 17, 2020, 09:29 PM

I am setting up for 20 gauge 1 oz lead field loads with a Lee Load-All. With all of the shortages I finally ended up with Fiocchi primed hulls, Claybuster wads (Win WAA20 substitutes) and Longshot powder. When I go to the Lee bushing chart, they dont list Longshot. How do I determine which bushing to use? All I can think of is putting any bushing in and seeing what it throws and then swap for bigger or smaller to get the correct weight of charge .
Any suggestions on some other way to do it? Thanks, Grant.

jrothWA · November 17, 2020, 09:58 PM

Go to the Hodgdon website and menu through the shotshell reloading and see what is recommended loads for Longshot, then take what ever you have in bushing and dump and weight a couple of charges to find what is closest to recommended and slowly open the ID till you get the correct weight.
Or call LEE and talk to the tech departemnt/

Grant 14 · November 17, 2020, 10:45 PM

I looked at Hodgdon and didnt find what I was looking for. I had not thought of calling Lee. That makes a lot of sense. Thank You, Grant.

FITASC · November 17, 2020, 10:50 PM

Hope you have a scale to verify any load data

FITASC · November 17, 2020, 10:55 PM

BTW, the Cb wad is for a 7/8oz load, not a 1oz load. You need to use the correct components

big al hunter · November 17, 2020, 11:48 PM

The Hodgdon data for 1 oz loads shows WAA20 wad and longshot for Fiocchi hulls.

Google "Lee bushing chart longshot". You will find a chart with longshot. Be sure to weigh the charges to verify. I haven't found a load that matches the Lee chart yet. Some are close, none are real close.

Grant 14 · November 18, 2020, 11:45 AM

ballistic Products site says the CB wads are good for 7/8 to 1 1/8 oz, so that isnt my concern. The loading data shows that wad and Longshot but the issue that I have is that the Lee data doesnt list a powder bushing for that combination. I will call Lee in a while and if that doesnt help, I will put a random bushing in and weigh a few charges and go larger or smaller on the bushings to get to the proper weight. Yes I have two different electronic scales and they agree with each other, so I am OK on that point. If I cant find a bushing that exactly matches the data, I will go with the next size smaller, not the larger. I am just hoping to not have to start at a random point. I will let you know if calling Lee helps. Thanks, Grant.

T. O'Heir · November 18, 2020, 02:59 PM

Lee does no testing of anything themselves. They use Hodgdon data. Still be a good idea to call or e-mail them or Hodgdon.
"...Hodgdon data for..." The only 20 Ga LongShot data on Hodgdon's site uses 2.75" Fiocchi/PMC Target shells with a GU 2021, low base wad. Whatever that is. I think having to use a specific shell is why I don't load shotgun. snicker.

FITASC · November 18, 2020, 03:08 PM

GU would be a Gualandi wad; they are sold by BPI
and for a 1oz load, it needs a 3" hull, according to Gualandi/BPI

Grant 14 · November 21, 2020, 11:55 AM

I have decided to not bother with the bushings. Since these are new hulls I can do the powder charge with my old Hornady powder measure and start with the wad placement using the Load All. I will throw enough samples to adjust the measure to a "Middle of the Road" charge and go from there. By the time I get around to RE-LOADING these same hulls, I will have gotten used to the Load All enough to experiment with bushings. Right now the path of least resistance will work and be safe. Thanks for all of the advice. Grant.

bladesmith 1 · November 21, 2020, 03:35 PM

Don't believe BPI about the wads. CBer makes different wads for different weight charges. I've used CBer wads for over 10 years and they don't make one that is good for 7/8 to 1 1/8oz loads. All you have to concern yourself with is what bushing throws the amount of powder the data calls for. The Fiocchi hulls don't use Win wads or their subs. Go to the Hodgdons web site to find the correct wad and amount of powder for that hull. Then you can weigh different bushings powder drop to find the correct one.

FITASC · November 21, 2020, 06:27 PM

Euro hulls use straight-walled wads, Federal types and clones are designed for that. Winchester and Remington hulls are tapered and use a different wad for a better fit.

Grant 14 · November 22, 2020, 12:34 PM

Claybusters # CB 1078-20 says 7/8 to 1 1/4 oz and to use WAA 20 data. It does say OPTIMUM load is 7/8 oz. My Lyman #5 reloading manual lists Fiocchi with Longshot and 1 oz. using WAA 20 wads and the Claybusters say to use WAA data. I think possibly the confusion is that Claybuster makes another 20 gauge wad that is for (I believe) 3/4 oz. loads.
Back to my original question about powder bushngs. I think I have solved it in 2 different ways. I spent a long time trying to get my Dads old powder measure to throw the correct charge. Two different drums and not enough adjustment on them to get the right charge. I finally found another size adjustment ram in a box of old parts and tried it. It works fine and I get within 1/10 grain consistently. After all of that, I found a reference to Lee Load All in the back of the Lyman book that listed the correct bushing for Longshot. It is funny that the Lee data doesnt show Longshot and an older shotshell book that I have also doesnt. I am going to load a half dozen shells and go up to the ranch and make some noise today (with safe practices) and if they seem fine I will try the bushing and see if it actually throws the correct charge. It is slowly coming together. I will post the results. Thanks to all of you. Grant.

Li'l ol' me · October 18, 2024, 11:54 PM

Thanks big al hunter. Just got the Load-all 2, bought some longshot, and needed the Lshot grains as a starting point. Found it pronto.

stinkeypete · October 24, 2024, 07:58 PM

I use my powder measure instead of bushings, too!

I don't load hundreds a week, so speed isn't an issue. I do a lot of hunting loads in 16 and 20 gauge.

One handy thing I made is a little rack to hold 50 shot shells. I use bamboo skewers pushed through just the right size cut-down cardboard box. Makes it easy.

After I drop 10 powder charges, I weigh a shell, tare the scale, and check my powder drop. After a while, that's every 24 shells.

I stuff the wads in before I get too many shells with powder in them, because knocking stuff over is a fact of life.

Shotgun reloaders don't measure to the same accuracy as us metalic reloader do, in general. But be careful with switching components.

Things like factory replacement wads are fine, but random substitutions are not.

mehavey · October 24, 2024, 09:51 PM

Quote:

...putting any bushing in and seeing what it throws and then
swap for bigger or smaller to get the correct weight of charge.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^
It's what you should be doing anyway.
Never trust a powder bushing chart

.

Jim Watson · October 26, 2024, 11:11 AM

When I was shooting Trap, loads were often defined in terms of MEC bushings, no scales involved.
If you had a scale, somebody was likely to hand you a shell with the mouth taped shut for you to weigh for him.

mehavey · October 26, 2024, 01:29 PM

Quote:

loads were often defined in terms of MEC bushings, no scales involved.

True, but powder weights/load-densities can vary dramatically
over time & different manufacturers across the years.

(Skeet shooter here. MEC reloader for same since`70 or so)

Jim Watson · October 27, 2024, 01:11 AM

The only serious case I know of is the guy who loaded a card wad powder charge with a “power piston.” Wrecked a gun.

November 17, 2020, 09:29 PM	#1
Grant 14 Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2018 Posts: 167	What bushing to use? I am setting up for 20 gauge 1 oz lead field loads with a Lee Load-All. With all of the shortages I finally ended up with Fiocchi primed hulls, Claybuster wads (Win WAA20 substitutes) and Longshot powder. When I go to the Lee bushing chart, they dont list Longshot. How do I determine which bushing to use? All I can think of is putting any bushing in and seeing what it throws and then swap for bigger or smaller to get the correct weight of charge . Any suggestions on some other way to do it? Thanks, Grant.

November 17, 2020, 10:50 PM	#4
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,654	Hope you have a scale to verify any load data __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

November 17, 2020, 11:48 PM	#6
big al hunter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2011 Location: Washington state Posts: 1,558	The Hodgdon data for 1 oz loads shows WAA20 wad and longshot for Fiocchi hulls. Google "Lee bushing chart longshot". You will find a chart with longshot. Be sure to weigh the charges to verify. I haven't found a load that matches the Lee chart yet. Some are close, none are real close. __________________ You can't fix stupid....however ignorance can be cured through education!

November 18, 2020, 03:08 PM	#9
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,654	GU would be a Gualandi wad; they are sold by BPI and for a 1oz load, it needs a 3" hull, according to Gualandi/BPI __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

November 21, 2020, 06:27 PM	#12
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,654	Euro hulls use straight-walled wads, Federal types and clones are designed for that. Winchester and Remington hulls are tapered and use a different wad for a better fit. __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

November 17, 2020, 09:58 PM	#2
jrothWA Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2006 Posts: 2,529	Go to the Hodgdon website and menu through the shotshell reloading and see what is recommended loads for Longshot, then take what ever you have in bushing and dump and weight a couple of charges to find what is closest to recommended and slowly open the ID till you get the correct weight. Or call LEE and talk to the tech departemnt/

November 17, 2020, 10:45 PM	#3
Grant 14 Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2018 Posts: 167	I looked at Hodgdon and didnt find what I was looking for. I had not thought of calling Lee. That makes a lot of sense. Thank You, Grant.

November 17, 2020, 10:55 PM	#5
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,654	BTW, the Cb wad is for a 7/8oz load, not a 1oz load. You need to use the correct components __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

November 18, 2020, 11:45 AM	#7
Grant 14 Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2018 Posts: 167	ballistic Products site says the CB wads are good for 7/8 to 1 1/8 oz, so that isnt my concern. The loading data shows that wad and Longshot but the issue that I have is that the Lee data doesnt list a powder bushing for that combination. I will call Lee in a while and if that doesnt help, I will put a random bushing in and weigh a few charges and go larger or smaller on the bushings to get to the proper weight. Yes I have two different electronic scales and they agree with each other, so I am OK on that point. If I cant find a bushing that exactly matches the data, I will go with the next size smaller, not the larger. I am just hoping to not have to start at a random point. I will let you know if calling Lee helps. Thanks, Grant.

November 18, 2020, 02:59 PM	#8
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Lee does no testing of anything themselves. They use Hodgdon data. Still be a good idea to call or e-mail them or Hodgdon. "...Hodgdon data for..." The only 20 Ga LongShot data on Hodgdon's site uses 2.75" Fiocchi/PMC Target shells with a GU 2021, low base wad. Whatever that is. I think having to use a specific shell is why I don't load shotgun. snicker.

November 21, 2020, 11:55 AM	#10
Grant 14 Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2018 Posts: 167	I have decided to not bother with the bushings. Since these are new hulls I can do the powder charge with my old Hornady powder measure and start with the wad placement using the Load All. I will throw enough samples to adjust the measure to a "Middle of the Road" charge and go from there. By the time I get around to RE-LOADING these same hulls, I will have gotten used to the Load All enough to experiment with bushings. Right now the path of least resistance will work and be safe. Thanks for all of the advice. Grant.

November 21, 2020, 03:35 PM	#11
bladesmith 1 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2018 Posts: 240	Don't believe BPI about the wads. CBer makes different wads for different weight charges. I've used CBer wads for over 10 years and they don't make one that is good for 7/8 to 1 1/8oz loads. All you have to concern yourself with is what bushing throws the amount of powder the data calls for. The Fiocchi hulls don't use Win wads or their subs. Go to the Hodgdons web site to find the correct wad and amount of powder for that hull. Then you can weigh different bushings powder drop to find the correct one.

November 22, 2020, 12:34 PM	#13
Grant 14 Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2018 Posts: 167	Claybusters # CB 1078-20 says 7/8 to 1 1/4 oz and to use WAA 20 data. It does say OPTIMUM load is 7/8 oz. My Lyman #5 reloading manual lists Fiocchi with Longshot and 1 oz. using WAA 20 wads and the Claybusters say to use WAA data. I think possibly the confusion is that Claybuster makes another 20 gauge wad that is for (I believe) 3/4 oz. loads. Back to my original question about powder bushngs. I think I have solved it in 2 different ways. I spent a long time trying to get my Dads old powder measure to throw the correct charge. Two different drums and not enough adjustment on them to get the right charge. I finally found another size adjustment ram in a box of old parts and tried it. It works fine and I get within 1/10 grain consistently. After all of that, I found a reference to Lee Load All in the back of the Lyman book that listed the correct bushing for Longshot. It is funny that the Lee data doesnt show Longshot and an older shotshell book that I have also doesnt. I am going to load a half dozen shells and go up to the ranch and make some noise today (with safe practices) and if they seem fine I will try the bushing and see if it actually throws the correct charge. It is slowly coming together. I will post the results. Thanks to all of you. Grant. Last edited by Grant 14; November 22, 2020 at 12:43 PM.

October 18, 2024, 11:54 PM	#14
Li'l ol' me Junior Member Join Date: October 18, 2024 Posts: 1	Thanks big al hunter. Just got the Load-all 2, bought some longshot, and needed the Lshot grains as a starting point. Found it pronto.

October 24, 2024, 07:58 PM	#15
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,344	I use my powder measure instead of bushings, too! I don't load hundreds a week, so speed isn't an issue. I do a lot of hunting loads in 16 and 20 gauge. One handy thing I made is a little rack to hold 50 shot shells. I use bamboo skewers pushed through just the right size cut-down cardboard box. Makes it easy. After I drop 10 powder charges, I weigh a shell, tare the scale, and check my powder drop. After a while, that's every 24 shells. I stuff the wads in before I get too many shells with powder in them, because knocking stuff over is a fact of life. Shotgun reloaders don't measure to the same accuracy as us metalic reloader do, in general. But be careful with switching components. Things like factory replacement wads are fine, but random substitutions are not. __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

October 26, 2024, 11:11 AM	#17
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,184	When I was shooting Trap, loads were often defined in terms of MEC bushings, no scales involved. If you had a scale, somebody was likely to hand you a shell with the mouth taped shut for you to weigh for him.

October 27, 2024, 01:11 AM	#19
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,184	The only serious case I know of is the guy who loaded a card wad powder charge with a “power piston.” Wrecked a gun.