Lee 45 acp dies

[akinswi]

Im getting back into Loading for 45acp after a 6 year hiatus. I found my 45 acp dies , apparently I didn’t oil them before I put them up they have some nice surface rust on them.

Could I put them in a wet tumbler with a mix of water and ballistol and use stainless steel pins? they are carbide dies or would this just scratch them?

[Shadow9mm]

Pics? How bad is the rust?

Personally i would be more inclined to use oil and steel wool, and a wire brush to give them a good cleaning.

Maybe a dry tumble with walnut or corn cob.

Wet tumble just does not feel like a good idea to me, but thats just a gut feel. But it would be my last choice.

[olduser]

Check the interior of the sizing die. If it shows rust and the oil and steel wool doesn't clean it use some JB on a tight fitting patch and polish to interior. If you just have exterior rust don't sweat it and remove what you can like Shadow9mm says. Concentrate on the interior of the dies.

[Metal god]

Yeah I like manually trying to clean them up first .

FWIW the whole die is not carbide , there is a small ring at the base of the mouth that is carbide . The rest of the die is plain old steel .

[44 AMP]

NavaL Jelly will take off the rust. Also, any kind of blue finish.

[Metal god]

What is NavaL Jelly made of , I've never heard of it ? Is it hazardous if handled without gloves or inhaled ? How does it work can it harm the metal , just wipe on wipe off ?

I've always used sandpaper , wire brush or steel wool to remove rust then a light coat of oil for bare metal . If painting I'll apply oil based primer or rust destroyer and another coat of primer before painting . I've never considered using a chemical to remove it first .

I ask because I not only get the surface rust on my dies the OP is talking about . In construction/remodeling I come across rusty metal all the time that needs to be cleaned up .

[Marco Califo]

Naval Jelly is mostly water and phosphoric acid, with gelling agent. It dissolves rust.
It must then be removed and the surface oiled immediately.
Do not spread it on toast.

[RoyceP]

Go to the nearest Harbor Freight. Buy a gallon of Evaporust. Soak the dies in it for a couple hours. They will come out looking like new.

[hammie]

@RoyceP: Bless your heart! I didn't know about Evapo-rust. The table on my table saw needs cleaning up, and I do have a harbor freight store nearby. Afterwards, I'll use Renaissance Wax on the saw, and that, hopefully, will keep the rust at bay. By the way, Renaissance Wax works pretty well on firearms, too.

As for rusty dies, I usually spray them with Barricade or Rem-Oil, before putting them away. And yes, I have to clean all the oil off before using them again, but I find that easier than removing rust.

[seanc]

Evaporust and then put the dies in VCI bags. That's what I'm doing now that I'm in Florida and noticed some rust spots on one of my dies (just a universal decapper).

You don't have to specifically buy VCI bags either. If you work on your car yourself and do your own brake jobs, save the bag the rotors come in, they're VCI bags. No wipe-down needed when you want to use whatever you've put in the bag.

[Geezerbiker]

Most of my Lee dies are fine but I also put silica gel packs in with them that I scrounge from medicine bottles. However I my Lee universal decapping and universal flaring dies both rusted on the outside recently. I cleaned them with a stainless wire brush and then wiped them down with a paper towel with a little acetone. After that I sprayed them with Midway dropout mold lube. Now they're pretty nice looking black and rust proofed. When the black wears off, it's easy to spray on a little more.

I think they came out so well, I'll likely do the same to all my other Lee dies...

Dropout mold lube is useless for it's intended purpose but it's great for other things...

Tony

[jetinteriorguy]

A really easy way to clean rust is to soak parts in a jar filled with a strong solution of citric acid and water. You can literally watch the rust come off. An hour or two is usually sufficient for even fairly rusted parts as long as they aren’t actually crusty. I use the type of citric acid for canning, about a quarter cup in a quart size jar will do the trick.

[akinswi]

Originally Posted by Geezerbiker

Most of my Lee dies are fine but I also put silica gel packs in with them that I scrounge from medicine bottles. However I my Lee universal decapping and universal flaring dies both rusted on the outside recently. I cleaned them with a stainless wire brush and then wiped them down with a paper towel with a little acetone. After that I sprayed them with Midway dropout mold lube. Now they're pretty nice looking black and rust proofed. When the black wears off, it's easy to spray on a little more.

I think they came out so well, I'll likely do the same to all my other Lee dies...

Dropout mold lube is useless for it's intended purpose but it's great for other things...

Tony

Those look brand new great job

[Unclenick]

There are several rust removal methods out there. I've used Gunzilla by placing a rusted part in a small container of it, and over about a month, and all the rust falls to the bottom of the container. Much faster are Evaporust and Rust-Release, both of which use a chelating agent to neutralize rust by conversion. Rust Release is slightly more acidic, so it is faster, but it also can leave the surface a little more able to re-rust promptly if you don't do something about it. I recommend a soak in mineral spirits or naphtha overnight to degrease before using either product and then let the solvent dry completely before putting it into the compound.

Acids will all take rust out, too. For example, oxalic acid is an ingredient in some ultrasonic cleaning solutions for deoxidizing. So is Citric acid. Phosphoric acid generally leaves a very thin protective layer of phosphate conversion on the surface, so you have a couple of days to get to whatever finishing you intend to do. Brownells Oxpho-blue and Van's Gun Blue are phosphoric acid-based cold blues, and if you want your dies black, you can use them to neutralize light surface rust. Neither makes as dark a blue as the nitric acid-based cold blues, but they are the only ones that produce no after-rust if you leave the un-oiled blued item out.

With any of the above treatments, I have found it helpful to apply them with an ultrasonic cleaner. First, you put the solution in and then the part and run a degas cycle. That tends to free air trapped in the rust and let the chemical get at it. Then run the ultrasonic in normal mode for a bit to knock any loose rust or oxide off the part.

With any of the acids, I want to neutralize them as fast as possible when the job is done, so I spray the part down with Formula 409, which is quite alkaline (don't apply it to aluminum for that reason, or it will etch it) or a mix of baking soda with a little dishwashing liquid. A teaspoon of each in a quart of water is enough for the remaining traces of acid. Then the part gets a very thorough rinse in hot tap water, and then I boil it for ten minutes in distilled water. That does three things: Trace rust formed on the surface by contact of the bare metal with air is converted to magnetite (blue iron oxide). The minerals in the tap water are dissolved to prevent water spots. The hot part dries rapidly upon removal from the water, and any new oxidation that tries to form during drying also becomes a blue or yellow oxide which you can see if you angle the part in the light correctly. You can then submerge it in a water-displacing oil to get trace water out of any nooks and crannies, or you can set it in an oven a 250°F long enough to drive any water out. That temperature will not adversely affect steel temper.

We shouldn't leave out mechanical removal. A stainless brush wheel, even one on a Dremel tool, can be loaded with white buffing compound and run around the threads to clear rust and polish the threads, which helps prevent future rust. Follow up with a clean wheel and Flitz to get a final polish and a little wax left on the surface for further protection. Even if you remove the rust chemically, polishing and waxing or treating it with a rust inhibitor afterward can help prevent future rust.

[Marco Califo]

Unclenick, you have mentioned a specific power factor for ultrasonic cleaners that only one or a couple of the "reloader's" ultrasonic appliances meets. I would appreciate any information, as I am considering the need for an ultrasonic cleaner.

[Unclenick]

I look for the ultrasonic power (not including the heater power) to be on the order of 100 watts/gallon or more. A lot of the old ones were about a third of that. I've got a nice 2.5-gallon Bransonic I've had for almost 30 years that is only 35W/gal, and it works, but it is slow. I have a newer (four years) Infante 1.5-gallon unit with 100W/gal that works way better.

More recently, my curiosity got the best of me, and I got a cheap Chinese-made unit on Amazon that claims 150W/gallon just to see if it was for real. So far, other than the heater temp setting being poorly calibrated (but you can compensate for that), it works as advertised. I'd wanted a smaller unit, so I didn't have to fill the bigger ones for small jobs like cleaning my glasses or small gun parts or a few cartridge cases, etc. I have no idea what the durability will be like, but if I were buying for the first time and didn't need something big enough for a 1911, this is what I would start with, understanding that its durability is unknown.

Be aware that this unit, like other ultrasonic units, has as its stated capacity the overflow capacity of the cleaning tank. As a result, the actual quantity of liquid it uses is closer to 2 liters (just over half a gallon) than the stated capacity of 3 liters. But that seems to be the industry standard. Larger units in the same brand do not have quite as much power density, but still enough, I think. Just note that the bigger ones have drains and one reviewer with a 6-liter unit said the drain is junk and leaks. The one I linked to is too small for a drain, and water is just dumped from its tank.

[Marco Califo]

Thanks!