Why not .30-30 semi-auto?

skinnygun · January 12, 2005, 01:11 AM

I have a Win 94a .30-30 the rifle is small lite-weight but I don't care for the lever action type rifles.Were there any semi-auto .30-30s in this small size rifle or would a semi-auto need to be larger?Thanks for any info.

PsychoSword · January 12, 2005, 01:24 AM

Well 7.62X39 is very similiar to .30-30 except it is not rimmed and it's slightly less powerful. Rimmed rounds generally don't go together with autos, of course there's lots of exceptions, but that's just how it is.

DPris · January 12, 2005, 01:24 AM

No semi-autos in .30-30, the round uses a rimmed case that doesn't typically work well in an auto action, and nobody's ever had much interest in the caliber for an auto action.
Denis

PsychoSword · January 12, 2005, 02:01 AM

Not to mention the flat nose bullets for tubular magazines.

Big-Foot · January 12, 2005, 06:01 AM

In my software I just ran a 150 gr Speer FNSP bullet at 2350 for the 30-30, and a 150 gr .311 caliber Speer SSP at 2150 for the 7.62x39. Due to the more streamlined bullet, at 190 yards the 7.62x39 bullets speed had caught up and the trajectorys were within 5 yards. Get an SKS and be happy.

357MagFan · January 12, 2005, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Due to the more streamlined bullet, at 220 yards the 7.62x39 bullets speed had caught up and the trajectorys were within 5 yards

When would you ever engage anything past 200 yards with those calibers anyway? hell 150 yards would be far. If you want to engage anything over 200 yards and out you should get a 30-06

Big-Foot · January 12, 2005, 06:18 AM

Yawn. I'm not his game guide, the point is that ballistically they are the same.

PsychoSword · January 12, 2005, 07:12 AM

Quote:

When would you ever engage anything past 200 yards with those calibers anyway? hell 150 yards would be far. If you want to engage anything over 200 yards and out you should get a 30-06

Thank you Captain Blatantly Obvious.

Jeffro250 · January 12, 2005, 08:45 AM

7.26x39 and 30-30 are nowhere near the same...30-30 outshines it in just about every aspect, especially with heavier bullets. Try loading 150 grain bullets or heavier in a 7.62 cartridge...they dont work very well if at all due to the lack of velocity. Both cartridges are at best 150 yard game stoppers...anything past that and they just dont have the reliable performance to drop good sided game, especially the 7.62x39 with its lightweight bullets. Game can and has been killed past 150 yards with both, but as an ethical hunter, i think one needs to realize the limitations of these cartridges. Try loading some 110-130 grain spitzers in your 30-30 and tell me the performance is the same...its no comparison(just dont do it in a tubular magazine!)! I can push 100-110 grain bullets nearly 3000 FPS out of a 20 inch barrel...no 7.62x39 ive ever seen even comes remotely close to that! Heres in interesting read on the 30-30 and varmint loads:

http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/...030varmint.htm

Tom Matiska · January 12, 2005, 10:32 AM

Standard Model M was offered in 30-30 (early 1900's). The 30-30's rimless cousin (30 Rem) found its way into some Remington offerings like the Model 8. Niether was the small or light rifle you wish for.

beenthere · January 12, 2005, 03:49 PM

I went another route for the 30-30. I bought a NEF single shot and to make it easy to start a couple hundred rounds of 150 grain from Wally on sale under $6 a box. Now I reload, since it's for my single shot I use pointed bullets exclusively. Of course it means I can't loan ammo to anyone with a lever action. I just love shooting the NEF's.

Big-Foot · January 13, 2005, 12:02 AM

Give the .308 another look. In factory loadings it doesn't recoil much and it's avilable in every style of action. Remember that you can always handload it down or get reduced recoil loads from Remington. I'll bet the 6 3/4 lb. BAR Shortstroke won't kick even with elk loads. Or how about a 7600 or BPR pump rifle.

Jseime · January 13, 2005, 07:28 PM

the 30-30 and the 7.62X39 will never be the same because the russian round is loaded with 120-125 grain bullets and the 30-30 with 150s as a rule which means that though they may look the same the russian cannot compare.

if youve got some money kicking around buy a new short-trac BAR in .243 or if they make it 7mm-08 both are good rounds that pack a punch

Mannlicher · January 13, 2005, 07:29 PM

Find an old Remington Model 8 in .30 Remington. It is a rimless cartridge developed to match the 30/30,
Remington has brought it back now, using the case to make the new 6.8 MM cartridge they propose to replace the 5.56 NATO round with.

Lawyer Daggit · January 13, 2005, 08:15 PM

I agree with Mannlicher. Cases for the old Rem round should be easier to get now.

Savage used to produce a pump action? .30-30, if you do not care for a lever have you considered a pump. It may take some tracking down and need some restoration but it could work for you.

Have you considered a 7.62x39 and reloading it with heavier pills? or even get one and rechamber it to the new 6.8 round, which ballistically seems pretty good?

Big-Foot · January 13, 2005, 09:09 PM

The 7.62x39 is only available with 125 grain bullets? Someone better tell Cor-bon.
http://www.corbon.com/catalog/index....=0,49198,49276
150 grain Pointed SP at 2300 fps. Doh.

Quit picking the nits. The guy said he wanted the equivalent of a semi in 30-30. Looks to me like a $150 SKS Paratrooper and a $20 box of shells and he's there.

DAVID NANCARROW · January 13, 2005, 09:57 PM

The thread starters words, "I have a Win 94a .30-30 the rifle is small lite-weight but I don't care for the lever action type rifles.Were there any semi-auto .30-30s in this small size rifle or would a semi-auto need to be larger?"

I don't see anything relating to an SKS in that statement. True, rimmed cased ammo is going to be a bit more tricky to feed, but certainly not impossible.

Having said that, the suggestions given hold merit. The SKS is not the only choice, but is not a bad one. The 742 Rem can be had in many calibers at or above the 30-30 power level for instance. Maybe even a 300 Savage? Pro's and con's all around.

Edward429451 · January 13, 2005, 09:57 PM

Wouldn't a Ruger Deerfield in 44 mag be ballistically similar to a 30-30? semi auto to boot.

I loaded some 170g flatpoints (intended for 30-30) for my 308 and got very pleasing results accuracywise. They outshot the SGK's!?

artsmom · January 25, 2005, 10:30 AM

I have seen several posts here that claim the 7.62x39mm "cannot compare" to the 30-30 because of the difference between a 123 grain bullet vs. a 150 grain bullet. Please tell me, where that 27 grains is going to make a difference? It is okay to have a preference. In fact, it is good that everyone takes the time to think these things out and form a position. But again, I can think of no place where the .30-30 would outshine a 7.62x39 with good bullets because of the weight disparity of 150 vs. 123 grains.

If we extend this line of logic that 123 grain bullets fall short somehow, then 6mm Remington, .240 Weatherby, and .243, with their 100 grain bullets, might as well stay in the gun cabinet come deer season.

Now, a .30-30 is not maxed out at a 150 grain bullet, as there are 170 grain bullets. This might start to be a factor if a guy was going after something like a European wild boar or black bear, but I can only comment with authority on deer and antelope.

TPAW · January 28, 2005, 01:34 AM

Psychosword is not correct in his comparison of the 30-30 and the 7.62x39.
If you examine the bullistics of both rounds, 30-30 150 grain and the 7.62x39 in the 154 grain, you will see that the 7.62x39 which is a short stroked 30.06, out performs the 30-30.
By the way, the 7.62x39 was designed for autos. Think about it, the SKS, AK 47's and all it's varieties...
Jeffro250...I'm dazzled by what you said about the 7.62x39. The ballistics don't lie, between the 30-30 150 grain and the 7.62x39 154 grain, both JSP, the 7.62x39 wins it hands down! Numbers don't lie.

gak · March 3, 2005, 02:19 AM

I've made the same point in reply to 223, M1 Garand and optimal assault rifle round posts, arguing for a 30-30 with redesigned rim (rimless) and spitzer point... I forgot about the .30 Rem...I also suggested the 7-30 Waters (30-30 with 7mm bullet) with spitzer and redesigned rim...and sounds like the current 6.8 NATO discussion would yield a similar result. Yes, the whole idea of a "30-30" or 7-30 Waters designed for auto load operation sounds like a stellar idea, and have always felt the 30-30 superior to the 7.62x39 (and is slightly larger anyway). A lot of WWII, Korean (and even early Nam/M14) GI's wished the US Gov't would have given a lot more thought to this kind of thinking in the development of what became the (cursed) overly large, heavy and limited firepower'd M1 Garand (albeit powerful and accurate--but aspects often not needed in the amount delivered by the Garand, at least by many troops in many, many combat circumstances vs often more desired characteristics of firepower, medium and close range utiity and wieldability/portability, i.e., something between the Garand and the M1 Carbine).

LAK · March 3, 2005, 07:35 AM

TPAW

Quote:

If you examine the bullistics of both rounds, 30-30 150 grain and the 7.62x39 in the 154 grain, you will see that the 7.62x39 which is a short stroked 30.06, out performs the 30-30.

I think someone is now getting the 7.62x39 confused with the 7.62x54R.

IMO as regards to the 7.62x39 vs the 30-30, in their most popular loadings for their most popular applications, there's really not a significant gap as Artsmom pointed out. And within their useful ranges, assuming the actual bullet is matched to the quarry, there is not going to be beast or man on the receiving end that would know the difference between them.

Where the 30-30 will have a significant edge IMO is with much heavier bullets. The 170 grain Nosler Partition loading by Federal for instance is going to be up to tasks that no factory 7.62x39 loading can reasonably be expected to match.

siggy2 · March 5, 2005, 01:12 AM

why get a 30-30 when u can have a real rifle caliber like .308 or 30-06?

ghettopettingzoo · March 5, 2005, 01:21 AM

I dont know who would use a 240 weatherby on a deer i break out the .300 when it comes to something needing to die.

Makarov9x · March 5, 2005, 02:28 AM

7.62x39 has approx. 1552 ft lbs of muzzle energy with a 125 gr bullet
.30 -.30 has approx. 1900 ft lbs of muzzle energy with a 150 gr bullet

But after 200 yrds the 7.62x39 surpasses the 30-30 with approx. 880 ft lbs of energy compared to 850 ft lbs of energy.

All of this info is avalible at Remington.com

January 12, 2005, 01:11 AM	#1
skinnygun Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 257	Why not .30-30 simi-auto? I have a Win 94a .30-30 the rifle is small lite-weight but I don't care for the lever action type rifles.Were there any semi-auto .30-30s in this small size rifle or would a semi-auto need to be larger?Thanks for any info.

January 12, 2005, 06:01 AM	#5
Big-Foot Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 404	In my software I just ran a 150 gr Speer FNSP bullet at 2350 for the 30-30, and a 150 gr .311 caliber Speer SSP at 2150 for the 7.62x39. Due to the more streamlined bullet, at 190 yards the 7.62x39 bullets speed had caught up and the trajectorys were within 5 yards. Get an SKS and be happy. Last edited by Big-Foot; January 12, 2005 at 08:24 AM.

January 12, 2005, 03:49 PM	#11
beenthere Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2004 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 460	30-30 I went another route for the 30-30. I bought a NEF single shot and to make it easy to start a couple hundred rounds of 150 grain from Wally on sale under $6 a box. Now I reload, since it's for my single shot I use pointed bullets exclusively. Of course it means I can't loan ammo to anyone with a lever action. I just love shooting the NEF's.

January 13, 2005, 07:28 PM	#13
Jseime Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 1,775	30-30/7.62x39 the 30-30 and the 7.62X39 will never be the same because the russian round is loaded with 120-125 grain bullets and the 30-30 with 150s as a rule which means that though they may look the same the russian cannot compare. if youve got some money kicking around buy a new short-trac BAR in .243 or if they make it 7mm-08 both are good rounds that pack a punch

January 13, 2005, 07:29 PM	#14
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,239	Find an old Remington Model 8 in .30 Remington. It is a rimless cartridge developed to match the 30/30, Remington has brought it back now, using the case to make the new 6.8 MM cartridge they propose to replace the 5.56 NATO round with. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan

January 12, 2005, 01:24 AM	#2
PsychoSword Junior member Join Date: August 11, 2002 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,486	Well 7.62X39 is very similiar to .30-30 except it is not rimmed and it's slightly less powerful. Rimmed rounds generally don't go together with autos, of course there's lots of exceptions, but that's just how it is.

January 12, 2005, 01:24 AM	#3
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	No semi-autos in .30-30, the round uses a rimmed case that doesn't typically work well in an auto action, and nobody's ever had much interest in the caliber for an auto action. Denis

January 12, 2005, 02:01 AM	#4
PsychoSword Junior member Join Date: August 11, 2002 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,486	Not to mention the flat nose bullets for tubular magazines.

January 12, 2005, 06:18 AM	#7
Big-Foot Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 404	Yawn. I'm not his game guide, the point is that ballistically they are the same.

January 12, 2005, 08:45 AM	#9
Jeffro250 Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2004 Posts: 286	7.26x39 and 30-30 are nowhere near the same...30-30 outshines it in just about every aspect, especially with heavier bullets. Try loading 150 grain bullets or heavier in a 7.62 cartridge...they dont work very well if at all due to the lack of velocity. Both cartridges are at best 150 yard game stoppers...anything past that and they just dont have the reliable performance to drop good sided game, especially the 7.62x39 with its lightweight bullets. Game can and has been killed past 150 yards with both, but as an ethical hunter, i think one needs to realize the limitations of these cartridges. Try loading some 110-130 grain spitzers in your 30-30 and tell me the performance is the same...its no comparison(just dont do it in a tubular magazine!)! I can push 100-110 grain bullets nearly 3000 FPS out of a 20 inch barrel...no 7.62x39 ive ever seen even comes remotely close to that! Heres in interesting read on the 30-30 and varmint loads: http://www.sixgunner.com/backissues/...030varmint.htm

January 12, 2005, 10:32 AM	#10
Tom Matiska Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Wilkes-Barre, Pa Posts: 1,029	Standard Model M was offered in 30-30 (early 1900's). The 30-30's rimless cousin (30 Rem) found its way into some Remington offerings like the Model 8. Niether was the small or light rifle you wish for.

January 13, 2005, 12:02 AM	#12
Big-Foot Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 404	Give the .308 another look. In factory loadings it doesn't recoil much and it's avilable in every style of action. Remember that you can always handload it down or get reduced recoil loads from Remington. I'll bet the 6 3/4 lb. BAR Shortstroke won't kick even with elk loads. Or how about a 7600 or BPR pump rifle.

January 13, 2005, 08:15 PM	#15
Lawyer Daggit Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 1,181	30-30 rimless I agree with Mannlicher. Cases for the old Rem round should be easier to get now. Savage used to produce a pump action? .30-30, if you do not care for a lever have you considered a pump. It may take some tracking down and need some restoration but it could work for you. Have you considered a 7.62x39 and reloading it with heavier pills? or even get one and rechamber it to the new 6.8 round, which ballistically seems pretty good?

January 13, 2005, 09:09 PM	#16
Big-Foot Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 404	The 7.62x39 is only available with 125 grain bullets? Someone better tell Cor-bon. http://www.corbon.com/catalog/index....=0,49198,49276 150 grain Pointed SP at 2300 fps. Doh. Quit picking the nits. The guy said he wanted the equivalent of a semi in 30-30. Looks to me like a $150 SKS Paratrooper and a $20 box of shells and he's there.

January 13, 2005, 09:57 PM	#17
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	The thread starters words, "I have a Win 94a .30-30 the rifle is small lite-weight but I don't care for the lever action type rifles.Were there any semi-auto .30-30s in this small size rifle or would a semi-auto need to be larger?" I don't see anything relating to an SKS in that statement. True, rimmed cased ammo is going to be a bit more tricky to feed, but certainly not impossible. Having said that, the suggestions given hold merit. The SKS is not the only choice, but is not a bad one. The 742 Rem can be had in many calibers at or above the 30-30 power level for instance. Maybe even a 300 Savage? Pro's and con's all around.

January 13, 2005, 09:57 PM	#18
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Wouldn't a Ruger Deerfield in 44 mag be ballistically similar to a 30-30? semi auto to boot. I loaded some 170g flatpoints (intended for 30-30) for my 308 and got very pleasing results accuracywise. They outshot the SGK's!?

January 25, 2005, 10:30 AM	#19
artsmom Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 334	I have seen several posts here that claim the 7.62x39mm "cannot compare" to the 30-30 because of the difference between a 123 grain bullet vs. a 150 grain bullet. Please tell me, where that 27 grains is going to make a difference? It is okay to have a preference. In fact, it is good that everyone takes the time to think these things out and form a position. But again, I can think of no place where the .30-30 would outshine a 7.62x39 with good bullets because of the weight disparity of 150 vs. 123 grains. If we extend this line of logic that 123 grain bullets fall short somehow, then 6mm Remington, .240 Weatherby, and .243, with their 100 grain bullets, might as well stay in the gun cabinet come deer season. Now, a .30-30 is not maxed out at a 150 grain bullet, as there are 170 grain bullets. This might start to be a factor if a guy was going after something like a European wild boar or black bear, but I can only comment with authority on deer and antelope.

January 28, 2005, 01:34 AM	#20
TPAW Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Posts: 2,860	Psychosword is not correct in his comparison of the 30-30 and the 7.62x39. If you examine the bullistics of both rounds, 30-30 150 grain and the 7.62x39 in the 154 grain, you will see that the 7.62x39 which is a short stroked 30.06, out performs the 30-30. By the way, the 7.62x39 was designed for autos. Think about it, the SKS, AK 47's and all it's varieties... Jeffro250...I'm dazzled by what you said about the 7.62x39. The ballistics don't lie, between the 30-30 150 grain and the 7.62x39 154 grain, both JSP, the 7.62x39 wins it hands down! Numbers don't lie.

March 3, 2005, 02:19 AM	#21
gak Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2005 Location: Aridzona Posts: 2,767	I've made the same point in reply to 223, M1 Garand and optimal assault rifle round posts, arguing for a 30-30 with redesigned rim (rimless) and spitzer point... I forgot about the .30 Rem...I also suggested the 7-30 Waters (30-30 with 7mm bullet) with spitzer and redesigned rim...and sounds like the current 6.8 NATO discussion would yield a similar result. Yes, the whole idea of a "30-30" or 7-30 Waters designed for auto load operation sounds like a stellar idea, and have always felt the 30-30 superior to the 7.62x39 (and is slightly larger anyway). A lot of WWII, Korean (and even early Nam/M14) GI's wished the US Gov't would have given a lot more thought to this kind of thinking in the development of what became the (cursed) overly large, heavy and limited firepower'd M1 Garand (albeit powerful and accurate--but aspects often not needed in the amount delivered by the Garand, at least by many troops in many, many combat circumstances vs often more desired characteristics of firepower, medium and close range utiity and wieldability/portability, i.e., something between the Garand and the M1 Carbine).

March 5, 2005, 01:12 AM	#23
siggy2 Member Join Date: March 4, 2005 Posts: 16	why get a 30-30 when u can have a real rifle caliber like .308 or 30-06?

March 5, 2005, 01:21 AM	#24
ghettopettingzoo Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2005 Location: Auburn maine Posts: 141	I dont know who would use a 240 weatherby on a deer i break out the .300 when it comes to something needing to die.

March 5, 2005, 02:28 AM	#25
Makarov9x Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2005 Posts: 128	7.62x39 has approx. 1552 ft lbs of muzzle energy with a 125 gr bullet .30 -.30 has approx. 1900 ft lbs of muzzle energy with a 150 gr bullet But after 200 yrds the 7.62x39 surpasses the 30-30 with approx. 880 ft lbs of energy compared to 850 ft lbs of energy. All of this info is avalible at Remington.com