primer history?

[Shadow9mm]

So my primer history is kind fuzzy. Would anyone care to expound of point me in the right direction?

Recently there have been number of threads on using small rifle primers in pistol cartridges.

I have also been trying to figure out how to proceed when using hard to ignite powders in 357, while only having small rifle primers.

someone mentioned there did not use to be magnum primers.

This raises the question for me, what is primer history. As I understand it we went from flint lock to cap lock, with the cap being a sort of primer, but I'm not sure if you can really call it that. from my understanding primers started at the advent of the cartridge. But when and where were did they branch into the distinct classes of small pistol, small pistol magnum, large rifle, and large rifle magnum?

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

This raises the question for me, what is primer history. As I understand it we went from flint lock to cap lock, with the cap being a sort of primer, but I'm not sure if you can really call it that. from my understanding primers started at the advent of the cartridge. But when and where were did they branch into the distinct classes of small pistol, small pistol magnum, large rifle, and large rifle magnum?

Don't forget rimfire (the first metallic cartridges), and those funny European Berdan primers.

[cdoc42]

Maybe this will help-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(firearms)

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by cdoc42

Maybe this will help-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(firearms)

its a blank wiki page.....

[hounddawg]

a quick Google came up with the Dreyse and Chassepot cartridges. You might do some investigation on these

[nhyrum]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

its a blank wiki page.....

Click the redirect link at the top.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Ike Clanton]

This documentary does a great job of showing the evolution of ignition systems. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6zijws

[Unclenick]

Keep in mind the Berdan system uses a case whose primer pocket interior resembles the nipple on a caplock, so I see it as a fairly logical development for it's time. The irony is that it was developed here and the Boxer system developed across the pond, and then we standardize on the Boxer and they on the Berdan for military use.

[44 AMP]

Real broad and rough overview (and I'm not looking this up, so bear with me if I make a minor mistake or three, )

First practical system is the matchlock. Smoulding "match" (treated cotton "rope") thrust into the priming powder embers ignite priming pan powder, which fires the main charge in the barrel.

First major upgrade the wheel lock (which is a type of flintlock) where a spring loaded wheel spun against the flint to spark the pan. Complicated and expensive, but did work. Later a simplified mechanism (snaphaunce") did the same job and became the flintlock mechanism we recognize today.

Later on, several others types of primers were tried, including a "tape primer" very similar to a kids cap gun, eventually resulting in the percussion cap system which came into use in the early 1800s.

Other ideas came and went, the Needle gun was called that because the firing pin was a long needle which pierced the paper cartridge to strike the primer which was located on the base of the bullet.

Self contained metallic cartridges show up, and by the time of the US Civil War are in limited use, and are rimfires or pinfires.

Development continues, and we get center fire cases with internal primers, and eventually becoming the center fire external primer we use today.
Things continue, and by the 1870s you can see cases that are the origins of the "standard" sizes we use today,

As already mentioned, in an ironic twist of fate, Berdan was an American, and Boxer was a European (British, if I remember right) but Europe adopted the Berdan system and the US adopted the Boxer primer system.

Look at the origin dates of various cartridges and what size primers they used. Size of the case mattered as much as anything. Smaller calibers coming into use in the 1880s-90s and on up used smaller primers so eventually we have two sizes (diameter) small and large for both pistol and rifle rounds.

I do not know when magnum primers became a thing, but the first rifle round that had Magnum in the name was the .375 H&H in 1912 and the first pistol round named Magnum was the .357 Magnum in 1935.

Rifle primers, intended for igniting larger amounts of powder and at higher pressures usually had thicker cups and more priming compound than pistol primers. Modern large rifle primers are a bit "taller" than large pistol primers, so usually cannot be used in their place.

Small rifle primers are physically the same size (including height) as small pistol primers, but usually have thicker metal cups and more priming compound. BUT, this varies with the manufacturer.

Small rifle primers will set off that hard to ignite powder in your .357 Magnum just fine. IF they go off. Some pistols do not strike the primers hard enough to reliably ignite small rifle primers. Many will, some won't. You need to test in your gun to see.

Begin at the starting load, or under it, (if the powder maker's recommendations allow for that) and load a few test shells. Fire them an see what your results are. Proceed carefully, working up slowing using the usual steps until you get the load you want.

IF you get pressure signs on the primer, case, or (God forbid, the gun) STOP. No matter what the book says is safe, STOP there and go no further. Pressure signs are not reliable indicators of what the pressure is (in psi, or any other numbers) but they ARE a reliable indicator that your gun doesn't like something about the combination of components your are feeding it.

I know things are in short supply right now and likely to continue to be for some time, but have you considered trying to find someone who has small pistol magnum primers and will trade for your small rifle? Or trade for something else??

[RC20]

The irony is that it was developed here and the Boxer system developed across the pond, and then we standardize on the Boxer and they on the Berdan for military use.

We got the good end of that deal!