.50-70 smokeless loads

mikejonestkd · May 16, 2021, 02:49 PM

I just acquired a vintage Remington rolling block in .50-70, and want to take it out occasionally at the range. Its a NYS Milita/ guard 3 band rifle with the 36" barrel
I am not interested in BP loads, I am just looking for a low pressure smokeless load, probably using 3031 or 5744. Data seems to be pretty scarce.
I plan on using montana swaged .515 365 gr bullets, or perhaps their 515 gr bullets.
Anyone care to share a load that works for them?

ATCDoktor · May 16, 2021, 10:34 PM

I shoot a Chiappa Sharps Carbine in 50/70 and my pet load is 29 grains of H4198 and a 450 grain round nosed bullet .515” in diameter.

Load gives me about 1250 FPS and is fairly accurate.

5 shots offhand at 100 yards.

This data is safe in my gun, like always you need to start low work up to a safe load for your rifle.

Dr.

ligonierbill · May 17, 2021, 09:54 AM

Lyman lists a load for 515 bullets over 5744: start 22.0/max 24.5. Large rifle magnum primer. They do have a bold print warning to only use these loads in modern replicas, not originals.

I tried a Lyman load (IMR-4895 if memory serves) in a Navy Arms replica I had. I got poor ignition and dropped the idea. I replaced that old Val Forgett gun with one built on an original Remington action, and I load only holy black in it. Using a paper patched 500 grain bullet, I can fit the original 70 grains of Olde Eynsford 1 1/2Fg. That gives me 1,148/7.3 Std from the 28" barrel.

mikejonestkd · June 18, 2021, 06:57 PM

I took your advice and went the black powder route. Settled on approx 65 gr of goex FFG under a montana bullets Lyman mold 515141 425 GR flat point. New starline brass, Win primers, and RCBS dies

https://www.montanabulletworks.com/

Loaded up my first rounds tonight and tomorrow is range day for this 150 year old rifle!

TX Nimrod · June 18, 2021, 11:12 PM

Now post a few photos of your rifle.

.

mikejonestkd · June 19, 2021, 06:32 PM

Quick update: only loaded a few test rounds for the rolling block.
My son shot a nice 1" 3 shot group with it at 50 yards, although it was quite high and right.
We swabbed the bore after every other shot, and it cleaned up nicely.

A small adjustment to the sights and we were ringing the 6" steel plate at 100 yards with it.
Time to tumble and load some more for our weekly range trip tomorrow!

here is a pic : https://www.flickr.com/photos/185306...posted-public/

**Unclenick** · June 20, 2021, 11:16 AM

You could try Trail Boss and N32C (Tin Star) loads, but you may be in the sweet spot with BP.

NoSecondBest · June 20, 2021, 11:21 AM

If you want to try Trail Boss let me know. I have most of a bottle and I don’t use it. You’re not too far away (if you’re still in Brockport) and I’ll give it to you if you want to try it.

Jim Watson · June 20, 2021, 12:07 PM

That is a nice example.
I am leery of using Trail Boss in large volume BPCRs. It is good in .44-40 but pressures go up fast as you add bullet weight and case size.

mikejonestkd · June 20, 2021, 04:22 PM

I am also hesitant to use trail boss in original rolling blocks or trapdoors ( i have two of them). From what I have gleaned from the internet, trail boss pressure spikes too quickly for older black powder cartridge firearms.
I do OK with 5744 and reduced loads of H4895 in the trapdoors.
This rolling block is only going to see black powder loads. I see no reason to stress a 150 years old rifle.
Going back today to tweak the sights a bit, and run a few rounds over the chronograph.

Jim, a question for you: This rifle has absolutely NO stamps, patent dates, or any identification other than a rack number stamped on the butt stock, and a proof mark on the side of the barrel. The story that came with the gun is that it may be a factory prototype. Any insight would be appreciated, what do I have?

Jim Watson · June 20, 2021, 11:14 PM

Contract NY rifles had Remington markings on top tang and inspector stamps here and there.
After 150 years "factory prototype" is just noise without serious provenance.

May 16, 2021, 02:49 PM	#1
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,759	.50-70 smokeless loads I just acquired a vintage Remington rolling block in .50-70, and want to take it out occasionally at the range. Its a NYS Milita/ guard 3 band rifle with the 36" barrel I am not interested in BP loads, I am just looking for a low pressure smokeless load, probably using 3031 or 5744. Data seems to be pretty scarce. I plan on using montana swaged .515 365 gr bullets, or perhaps their 515 gr bullets. Anyone care to share a load that works for them? __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

June 18, 2021, 06:57 PM	#4
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,759	I took your advice and went the black powder route. Settled on approx 65 gr of goex FFG under a montana bullets Lyman mold 515141 425 GR flat point. New starline brass, Win primers, and RCBS dies https://www.montanabulletworks.com/ Loaded up my first rounds tonight and tomorrow is range day for this 150 year old rifle! __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

June 18, 2021, 11:12 PM	#5
TX Nimrod Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2009 Location: Zona Posts: 432	Now post a few photos of your rifle. . __________________ .22LR - .223 - .22-250 - .243 - 6mm REM - .25-20 - .25-35 - .25 BB - .250/3000 - .257 WBY - .260 - .30 M1 - .300 BO - .30 Herrett - .300 Savage - .32 H&R - .303 - .338-06 - .338 WM - 9mm Para - .35 REM - .38-55 - .45 LC - .45-70 - .50-70

June 19, 2021, 06:32 PM	#6
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,759	Quick update: only loaded a few test rounds for the rolling block. My son shot a nice 1" 3 shot group with it at 50 yards, although it was quite high and right. We swabbed the bore after every other shot, and it cleaned up nicely. A small adjustment to the sights and we were ringing the 6" steel plate at 100 yards with it. Time to tumble and load some more for our weekly range trip tomorrow! here is a pic : https://www.flickr.com/photos/185306...posted-public/ __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth. Last edited by mikejonestkd; June 19, 2021 at 06:43 PM.

June 20, 2021, 11:16 AM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,739	You could try Trail Boss and N32C (Tin Star) loads, but you may be in the sweet spot with BP. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 16, 2021, 10:34 PM	#2
ATCDoktor Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Posts: 172	I shoot a Chiappa Sharps Carbine in 50/70 and my pet load is 29 grains of H4198 and a 450 grain round nosed bullet .515” in diameter. Load gives me about 1250 FPS and is fairly accurate. 5 shots offhand at 100 yards. This data is safe in my gun, like always you need to start low work up to a safe load for your rifle. Dr.

May 17, 2021, 09:54 AM	#3
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,646	Lyman lists a load for 515 bullets over 5744: start 22.0/max 24.5. Large rifle magnum primer. They do have a bold print warning to only use these loads in modern replicas, not originals. I tried a Lyman load (IMR-4895 if memory serves) in a Navy Arms replica I had. I got poor ignition and dropped the idea. I replaced that old Val Forgett gun with one built on an original Remington action, and I load only holy black in it. Using a paper patched 500 grain bullet, I can fit the original 70 grains of Olde Eynsford 1 1/2Fg. That gives me 1,148/7.3 Std from the 28" barrel.

June 20, 2021, 11:21 AM	#8
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	If you want to try Trail Boss let me know. I have most of a bottle and I don’t use it. You’re not too far away (if you’re still in Brockport) and I’ll give it to you if you want to try it.

June 20, 2021, 12:07 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,172	That is a nice example. I am leery of using Trail Boss in large volume BPCRs. It is good in .44-40 but pressures go up fast as you add bullet weight and case size.

June 20, 2021, 04:22 PM	#10
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,759	I am also hesitant to use trail boss in original rolling blocks or trapdoors ( i have two of them). From what I have gleaned from the internet, trail boss pressure spikes too quickly for older black powder cartridge firearms. I do OK with 5744 and reduced loads of H4895 in the trapdoors. This rolling block is only going to see black powder loads. I see no reason to stress a 150 years old rifle. Going back today to tweak the sights a bit, and run a few rounds over the chronograph. Jim, a question for you: This rifle has absolutely NO stamps, patent dates, or any identification other than a rack number stamped on the butt stock, and a proof mark on the side of the barrel. The story that came with the gun is that it may be a factory prototype. Any insight would be appreciated, what do I have? __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth. Last edited by mikejonestkd; June 20, 2021 at 04:28 PM.

June 20, 2021, 11:14 PM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,172	Contract NY rifles had Remington markings on top tang and inspector stamps here and there. After 150 years "factory prototype" is just noise without serious provenance.