Powder alert

[stagpanther]

Powder Valley seems to have gotten in a shipment, I just made a huge (for me) order. I was sorely tempted to order just a few 8 lber's of stuff I'm nearly out of--or instead order a wide variety of 1 lber's to cover the most cartridges and elected to go for the variety, though more expensive.

[stagpanther]

Still no primers........ I wonder how many billions of cartridges the public needs before primers start showing up again. LOL

[hounddawg]

just me but I am having a hard time buying into the "huooooge numbers of gun sales" BS. I can go to any LGS and find shelves of rifles, shotguns and pistols waiting to be sold. Someone somewhere is buying huooooge amounts of powder and ammo though and it isn't the average hobbyist

[NoSecondBest]

Around here the shelves on the local gun stores are nearly empty and Cablea’s is the same way....nothing to be had.

[2ndtimer]

Originally Posted by hounddawg

just me but I am having a hard time buying into the "huooooge numbers of gun sales" BS. I can go to any LGS and find shelves of rifles, shotguns and pistols waiting to be sold. Someone somewhere is buying huooooge amounts of powder and ammo though and it isn't the average hobbyist

I am willing to buy in to the “huoooge” numbers of gun sales, which leads to a similar huge increase in demand for ammunition, which leads to an increase in the number of people taking up handloading, which leads to the apparent shortage of components. Keep in mind there are numerous gun manufacturers, both foreign and domestic, while there are very few producers of powder and primers domestically and the current administration is not going to ease import restrictions to alleviate the shortage of ammunition or reloading components. It is not “someone somewhere buying huoooge amounts of powder and ammo”. It is EVERYONE EVERYWHERE buying whatever they find available for whatever price they can afford. Because if they don’t, they have no idea if or when they might find it available, and being Americans, doing without is just not an option.

[Unclenick]

As Forbes Magazine pointed out, a big part is shipping interruptions due to the pandemic cutting down incoming foreign ammo and foreign-made powders, like Hodgdon's Extreme line.

[stagpanther]

I stopped by a LGS today and was STUNNED, the shelves were full of powders--in fact they had so much that under the shelves they had stacks of boxes of powder kegs. Problem was, they were all heavily marked up from what they had been charging less than a year ago. I still couldn't resist buying some. They also had primers, at least small rifle primers, but this is where I think it got crazy, they were offering 500 primers for $179 along with a bunch of used 5.56 brass they swept off the range floor (and their customers paid for to begin with).

[Metal god]

We had plans to go to a gunshow 2 hrs away ( driving ) tomorrow but cancelled. My buddy and I could not stop thinking they would not have anything or what they have will be marked way up . It just seems like massive disappointment waiting to happen and that would be after sitting in the car for two hours .

[hounddawg]

PV has had powder drops off and on at close to pre covid prices, and even Midway was selling a lot of Vihtavouri the other day at 42 a pound which is close to pre covid. A couple of weeks ago I stumbled across a 8 pounder of TAC at 189 locally. My previous jug of TAC was only 129 but that was 10 years old. I would not bother going to a gun show though, you know they will have stupid high prices. Lots of powder drops if you are watching the internet lately and it is staying on site longer and longer. Mostly Accurate but some Western, VV and Hodgdon

[stagpanther]

I wish I had stocked up on more of IMR's enduron powders--rapidly becoming my preferred powders, especially 7977.

[Unclenick]

By the way, I created the Component Sightings sticky exactly for posting this kind of information.

[stagpanther]

Please move this post over if that's the place it should be. thanks.

[Unclenick]

I would, but at this point, the dates will intermingle and put posts out of sequence. So I'll just leave it. No biggy. Just trying to give folks suffering from shortages one convenient place to check for the latest sighting when they first log in.

[stagpanther]

No problem.

[Metal god]

Brunos has a lot of powder for sale , only problem is you must buy it by the case . I've been want some CFE pistol which they have in stock . However it's in 10# single pound bottle cases for $420 each . IDK right now $42 a pound doesn't sound to bad but I don't want to spend $400+ dollars on one powder .

correction - they are now selling 4 & 8# jugs of several powders but they are pricey . I just went through a mock checkout over there . $360 including hazmat and shipping for 8# of CFE pistol So basically double what I paid for it two years ago Thank god I "want" CFE pistol and don't actually need it .

https://www.brunoshooters.com/mm5/me...ry_Code=powder

[stagpanther]

It's like Christmas in June today--Powder Valley comes through again, and at non-gouging prices. I call that building loyalty.

[hounddawg]

Yesterday evening Natchez was selling 8 pound jugs of IMR 4831 for $210 while Bruno's price for 10 pounds in one pound bottles is $500. $25 a pound vs $50 a pound. So much for those who are claiming that the vendors are simply passing on the cost they are paying. Midway USA and Everglades Ammo are also have stupid high prices compared to other dealers such as MidSouth and Powder valley

[stagpanther]

Powder Valley is my usual go-to, I used to use Midsouth and Precision reloading as well but they basically haven't had anything in the last year and a half.

[Metal god]

The other night I had 5# of Accurate #5 in my cart at Powder valley . was thinking I'd replace my CFE pistol with it . Got side tracked for an hour and when I went back to buy .... all gone . you snooze you loose

[stagpanther]

Happens with any site. PV will even tell you in real time whether or not the item is still available for purchase while you've been browsing--which beats the heck out of others that take your money--and then maybe a week later tell you something wasn't in stock and you'll get your money back --in a few days maybe. I've ordered a lot from PV and only once did I have an order shorted from what I was expecting--and that was a few months ago when things were at their worst.

[Shane Tuttle]

Originally Posted by hounddawg

Yesterday evening Natchez was selling 8 pound jugs of IMR 4831 for $210 while Bruno's price for 10 pounds in one pound bottles is $500. $25 a pound vs $50 a pound. So much for those who are claiming that the vendors are simply passing on the cost they are paying. Midway USA and Everglades Ammo are also have stupid high prices compared to other dealers such as MidSouth and Powder valley

I said it.

I also said there are gougers out there. Could it be their cost was higher than their competitors' cost? If so, was it because they weren't able to get the same amount? What was the FINAL cost for the customer?

Some may price their powder cheaper, only to stick it to the customer on inflated shipping/hazmat fees. Granted, you named 2 big companies with huge differences in pricing. And, you're right. That's not looking like they're restraining their profit margins. However, there are companies out there that don't gouge.

[hounddawg]

Brunos shipping +Hazmat to my town would be $84, Natchez = $34 Guess which company will never get my business when things settle out?

[Metal god]

Brunos shipping +Hazmat to my town would be $84, Natchez = $34 Guess which company will never get my business when things settle out?

I was thinking the same thing , I must have bought something from Brunos in the past because I get there new letter but I have no intensions on buying anything from them any time soon .

[Unclenick]

I think they are taking an intentional risk. This morning PV had reasonable prices, but only a fraction of their powder catalog available. Bruno's had its sky-high prices, but also had stock on most powders they catalog. This means Bruno's is selling a lot less volume in order to be able to supply a large selection. The high prices limit the hoarders and gunbroker resellers by cutting too much into their margin. Fewer sales also reduce the workload on a business that is already backed up to the point it can't answer phones or honor order changes.

This is economics 101. Gouging is a remedy for hoarding that has the advantage of being self-regulating. To try to prevent hoarding without gouging, PV is having to monitor customer ordering activity, put order limits in place, and cross-check shipping addresses for duplications under different names by those trying to get around the limits. Basically, they have to jump through a lot of extra hoops to make it happen and give themselves a greater workload by doing so. Bruno's, already overwhelmed by backorders, has decided it would rather sell less than pay people to jump through the extra hoops.

I believe Bruno is also a smaller volume powder seller than PV is in normal times. They may not order powder in enough volume to get wholesale prices as low as PV gets, and that would mean their prices are higher than PV even in normal times.

My recommendation is not to take it personally. PV's strategy is different from Bruno's. PV may believe it is buying future customer loyalty and finding that worth the cost of the extra work and hoop-jumping. Bruno may be gambling having some things available at any cost will bring them new customers who stay after things return to normal. They also may be genuinely unable to afford the personnel time needed for extra hoop jumping. Unless you walk a mile in their shoes...

[hounddawg]

Just my personal theory but I think it is simply greed.

Occam's Razor :

"The simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated explanations." "If you have two equally likely solutions to a problem, choose the simplest." "The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."