Is there a centerfire caliber that comes close to .22lr in terms of "suppressability"

[simonrichter]

(I know "suppressability" is not even a real word, just to shorten the title...)

Given a similar barrel- and suppressor length, is there any handgun caliber that at least comes close to the nearly "movie quiet" that's possible to achieve with a suppressed .22lr pistol? (Including subsonic loads etc., doesn't have to be the "everyday business" issue of the respective caliber...)

[PSP]

.25 acp.
.32acp.

[Nanuk]

45 ACP, 40 S&W, 9mm, with the proper ammo.

I used to shoot a suppressed Mac-10 45ACP and it was a hoot. Shooting indoors the only sound was the bolt slapping and the brass hitting the floor.

[Aguila Blanca]

It's not the caliber that matters, it's the velocity. Any bullet that leaves the muzzle at supersonic velocity (somewhere around 1150 fps, depending on altitude, relative humidity, atmospheric pressure, the phase of the moon, and what you had for breakfast that day) will make a supersonic "crack" that the suppressor can't reduce. Choose a load that runs 1050 fps or less and there's no "crack."

[TXAZ]

Datapoint: A .50 BMG is much quieter than a .22LR when the 750gr bullet just makes it about 2 feet out of the barrel and hits the ground.
(Aka squib). The point being just enough primer and powder to just get the billet out of the gun makes very little noise. A little bit more powder makes it lethal at very short ranges, but still very quiet.

[ballardw]

Originally Posted by simonrichter

(I know "suppressability" is not even a real word, just to shorten the title...)

Given a similar barrel- and suppressor length, is there any handgun caliber that at least comes close to the nearly "movie quiet" that's possible to achieve with a suppressed .22lr pistol? (Including subsonic loads etc., doesn't have to be the "everyday business" issue of the respective caliber...)

.22 short seems like an obvious answer

[FrankenMauser]

9mm is the easiest answer here.
Standard 147 gr loads are always subsonic.

An internet favorite is 7.62x38mmR, since it requires a Nagant revolver.

.45 Auto is also always subsonic with standard loads and 185-230+ gr bullets.
I run .45 Auto in a suppressed 16" bbl Mauser. The striker impacting the primer and bullet impacting the target are louder than the report from the cartridge discharging. I do have to use reduced loads with 185 gr bullets, though, since the longer barrel does result in super-sonic velocity with standard loads.

.32 S&W Long is one that I've wanted to try suppressed for a while, now. SAAMI pressure limits the cartridge to always being subsonic.
I think it could be quite fun suppressed in a Union Reifgraber, Walther, Benelli, Hammerli, etc.

[Double K]

As the op lives in Austria there's probably some restrictions on the guns.
Any centerfire semi-auto handgun can be movie quiet providing there's an option to keep the slide closed which is available on very few guns. Other wise the action cycling and the casing hitting the ground definitely make more noise than faked movie scenes.
There's even a big variation in the sound of 22lr's, I have three threaded semi-auto pistols, the Walther P22 is by far the quietest to shoot.

[JohnKSa]

Not a suppressor designer, but my gut feel is that there are four main things that affect how well it is possible to suppress a cartridge.

Velocity. If the round is supersonic, you're going to get the crack even if you can suppress the muzzle blast completely.

Pressure. The higher the pressure at the point of muzzle exit, the harder it will be to slow that gas down before it gets out of the suppressor.

Gas Volume. The more gas that exits the muzzle, the more difficult the task of containing that gas until the pressure can drop sufficiently to get a low noise level out of the suppressor.

Bullet diameter. The larger the bullet, the larger the hole at the front of the suppressor. The larger the hole at the front of the suppressor, the more gas will be exiting at relatively high velocity behind the bullet to make noise instead of being driven out to the side and into the suppressor baffling system.

So I'd look for a small caliber round, with subsonic velocity, low pressure and a small powder charge.

[Double K]

I have Sako quad, four barrels, all threaded, same silencerco spectre 2
17hm2 report is identical to 17hmr in spite of case capacity and velocity difference
17hmr is quieter than 22mag, case capacity is the same but the larger profile of the 22 bullet creates a bigger shock wave going down range.
22 hornet vs 223, they have the exact same report in spite of case capacity and velocity difference shot through a silencerco harvester.
The big difference is the amount of heat transferred to the suppressor, after 3 shots you do not want to touch a suppressor on a 7mm magnum.
9mm vs 45acp, no difference in report when both are subsonic but the noise the action makes can be significant, my Glock is much quieter than my 1911. My theory is that synthetic pistols don't make as much noise as metal guns.
The noise from the impact of the bullet on flesh, metal or dirt is louder than you would think possible with high velocity or slow large diameter bullets.

Added information, the quietest gun/ammunition combination I have is a Tikka T1x with CCI quiet 22/Silencerco Warlock 2, the firing pin makes very little noise when the gun is fired and the impact of the 710fps bullet on target is as low as anything I've heard. That ammunition has a poor trajectory/energy and isn't suitable for anything larger than rabbits past about 40yds. It's a great pest control set-up where it's legal and safe.

[lee n. field]

Originally Posted by simonrichter

(I know "suppressability" is not even a real word, just to shorten the title...)

Given a similar barrel- and suppressor length, is there any handgun caliber that at least comes close to the nearly "movie quiet" that's possible to achieve with a suppressed .22lr pistol? (Including subsonic loads etc., doesn't have to be the "everyday business" issue of the respective caliber...)

Is there an unspoken assumption here that you want multi-shot capability and that this will be shot through an autoloading handgun?

[Double K]

I've thought about having one of my contender barrels threaded but never done so, they don't work on revolvers with the exception of the Nagant.
https://www.guns.com/news/2019/08/08...-on-a-revolver

[FrankenMauser]

It works for 'normal' revolvers, just not as well as a sealed system.

[Double K]

Add the back pressure of a suppressor to a revolver and tell us how well they work on them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbFaMb_76ik

[simonrichter]

Is there an unspoken assumption here that you want multi-shot capability and that this will be shot through an autoloading handgun?
__________________

yes, exactly!

[FrankenMauser]

Add the back pressure of a suppressor to a revolver and tell us how well they work on them.

That would be an example of the "Passing the buck" fallacy.
"I made a claim, but I'm going to say the burden is on you to disprove it."

Congratulations.
And a really terrible video reference.


Even so, I can counter your terrible '90s "I look like a cop and I'm filming myself, and therefore an expert on everything"-video, with a suppressed .45-70 revolver. Not just a revolver. .45-70.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_gDnC8PVgI

[Double K]

I seen a couple of those video's where there using semi-custom revolvers with huge suppressors, just a guess but is the cylinder forcing cone gap much tighter than normal on those guns?
Then there's the issue of the front sight on most double action revolvers, the sight would have to be milled off or the barrel cut back.
Lots of single action revolvers have sights attached by screws, could be moved back, suppressing one would be akin to putting a DVD player in your model T.
I'm not the only guy who wouldn't consider suppressing a revolver, it's a pretty standard belief they don't work on them and it's not worth the effort.

[jimbob86]

The noise from the impact of the bullet on flesh

Ah, the "kugelschlag" (Germans make a word for anything by putting words together) .... it is indeed pretty loud, and is a low pitched sound that carries pretty well, IME. On clear, cold mornings, I have heard hits on deer from hundreds of yards. Gallon milk jugs of water are audible for 400+ yards, even with the wind blowing.

[FrankenMauser]

...just a guess but is the cylinder forcing cone gap much tighter than normal on those guns?
Then there's the issue of the front sight on most double action revolvers, the sight would have to be milled off or the barrel cut back.
I'm not the only guy who wouldn't consider suppressing a revolver, it's a pretty standard belief they don't work on them and it's not worth the effort.

Belief and fact are often disparate.

Moving sights is not a big deal. I've done it or had it done, on several things - including a Buckmark, where two pins and a locating slot had to be dealt with, in addition to the sight base screws.

BFRs are known for being well made and well-fitted. But there are production guns with similar tolerances.

[Double K]

Does anyone make a revolver threaded for a suppressor?

[TruthTellers]

.32 ACP. The Welrod pistol from WW2 was a bolt action .32 and is still considered an extremely quiet pistol today.

[Andy Blozinski]

I fired a silenced bolt action 30-06 firing subsonic rounds. That was amazing. We were told to use a tree across the farm field as our target and pretty much the only sound you heard was the round hitting the tree.

[simonrichter]

kugelschlag

I'm pretty sure you mean "Einschlag" or "Aufprall", if I may offer some wisecracking in German

(Germans make a word for anything by putting words together)

that is SO true, though!

[jimbob86]

I'm pretty sure you mean "Einschlag" or "Aufprall", if I may offer some wisecracking in German

Jeff Cooper wrote about it a generation ago ..... learned it on some of his foreign hunting adventures .... maybe the vernacular has changed in 30 years.

[simonrichter]

Jeff Cooper wrote about it a generation ago ..... learned it on some of his foreign hunting adventures .... maybe the vernacular has changed in 30 years.

I see, yeah that makes sense then, indeed!