S&W Governor?

[jski]

Is there any consensus developing with the S&W Governor 410/45 Colt/45ACP wheelgun?

Is it a useful self defense weapon? Or is it a gimmick?

Federal has a #4 shot personal defense round and Hornady has a 410 Critical Defense load, both specifically for this gun.

[laytonj1]

If you had to pick a shotgun for home defense, would your first choice be a 410?
I'd go with a 357 magnum revolver and call it a day.

Jim

[jski]

Let me create a scenario for you. I now live in Florida and there are a lot of elderly with poor eyesight down here. Let’s say you load the Governor with 6 rounds of Federal #4 shot. That’s six rounds of #4 shot in the face. I suspect that would dissuade many.

You could even drop in one of the 2 round 45ACP clips + 4 rounds of Federal #4 shot. Blind him with the #4 shot and polish him off with the ACPs.

[kozak6]

Mostly gimmick.

I'd say it really only makes sense if you want a shotpistol for snakes/varmints, or if you are interested in Federal's 000 buck. Seems like most other loads have issues.

Firearms are lethal force. If you want less-lethal disabling eye hits, pepper/bear spray is probably better.

I'd say planning on 4-6 purposefully ineffective head shots isn't a realistic defense strategy.

[jski]

I originally thought the same, mostly gimmick. But after watching some videos of that Federal #4 shot fired into ballistic jell and the ensuing mess it makes of it and other videos of it being fired at harder objects, can of shaving cream, I’ve changed my mind.

One of those Federal loads fired into someone’s face would do significant damage, I have no doubt. You would definitely be incapacitated.

[Cosmodragoon]

Originally Posted by jski

Let me create a scenario for you. I now live in Florida and there are a lot of elderly with poor eyesight down here. Let’s say you load the Governor with 6 rounds of Federal #4 shot. That’s six rounds of #4 shot in the face. I suspect that would dissuade many.

You could even drop in one of the 2 round 45ACP clips + 4 rounds of Federal #4 shot. Blind him with the #4 shot and polish him off with the ACPs.

Just like a normal shotgun, bird shot at close range can certainly be fatal. Neither the fact of it being "bird shot" or having a short barrel will make it "less lethal". Legally, morally, and practically; you'd still be shooting someone in the face with a firearm and there is a significant possibility of permanent injury or death.

Now, distance is what changes the effect of lighter weight shot shells. The shot spreads out a little over distance. Looking at tests with the similar Judge models, it tends to take on a ring-shaped distribution from the short rifled barrel. It could still be fatal but that all depends on how it hits. At distances where this effect is likely to be an important factor, questions may develop over necessity and self defense.

It's worth watching a few videos of these being tested at various ranges. You may want to search by "Taurus Judge". Paul Harrell does a really nice series on these, exploring personal defense, damage to meat targets, pattern tests, hit probability for snakes, and more.

[DaleA]

Eh, it's my day to be a jerk. I think your argument would go better if you quit saying 'fired into someone's face'. Goodness, ANYTHING fired into my face would seriously make me rethink what I was doing.

The Taurus Judge/S&W Governor---real deal/gimmick debate has been going on since they were released and I can't see us deciding it one way or another here (or I should say again...there's several threads about it right here on this site).

One undeniable fact (I think), they're still selling.

If you decide to get one let us know how it works out for you.

Good luck.

[jski]

Oh I realize the real vs gimmick debate has raged on! But, there’s been time to accumulate experience and with that I thought it would possible to put aside 1st impressions and initial reactions and talk about what it’s really capable of.

How long has the Governor been on the market now? How long have ammo manufacturers had time to develop different loads for it? How many have been sold?

BTW, for whatever it’s worth, Hickok45’s initial reaction was the same as many of us BUT I’ve noticed he’s grown to really love it. He should since he bought one for himself.

[BubbaBlades]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsSiyt8XmOg

I did this YouTube video about six years ago. In the video I am shooting my S&W Governor with six rounds of 000 Buckshot into a man size target at a range of 7 yards.

I have done penetration tests and destructive testing on different materials using various 410 loads and for me 000Buck performs very well.

[laytonj1]

I now live in Florida and there are a lot of elderly with poor eyesight down here.

Are you referring to yourself or the bad guys?

Let’s say you load the Governor with 6 rounds of Federal #4 shot. That’s six rounds of #4 shot in the face. I suspect that would dissuade many.

If your theoretical bad guy is close range, unarmed and can't move then maybe you'll be able to shoot him 6 times in the face.

I never said a 410 could not be effective. But, like a 22, there are better choices to be had.

Jim

[USSR]

Multi-purpose items rarely do any one thing well.

Don

[stinkeypete]

I’m riding with Dale... they keep selling- in other words, people keep buying.

I also like Paul Harrell’s point that if that’s what makes you feel confident, that’s what counts and then he pulls out his own cc piece.*

My only experience is with the very common .410/45 Colt 10” Contender barrel where I:
1. Wasted a lot of shells trying to hit regulation skeet targets. The clay birds were completely safe, I couldn’t hit em.
2. Rabbits on the run were completely safe. Bunnies that stopped got stopped. .22lr is much cheaper and worked better.
3. Even with the choke, the shot pattern was crap, but the choke really helped.
4. You have to remove the choke to shoot .45 LC and that’s a worry and a bother. Accuracy was meh. “Meh” accuracy in a Contender is unacceptable.

For me, the novelty of blasting .410 shells was pretty much over in 2 range outings. I”m glad they are popular as I sold mine after one season and retired it from rabbit hunting after 2 outings in favor of my .22 pistol.

Here are some questions I have:
1. Is there a federal regulation that prevents a smooth bore shot-handgun? It would most definitely pattern better.

2. If my .380 is “no good” because it doesn’t have adequate penetration, what’s the penetration of 00 buckshot from a 3” barrel .410? Nah, never mind.

3. Why does everybody seem to think snakes need shooting? How do you clean a snake? Is that something to do with those Enormous Florida Pythons? (I’m all in for exterminating invasive species.)

Bottom line for me is that what sells at the gun store is mostly about making the customer feel good about their purchase.

*25 acp

[URIT]

The S&W Governor is hardly a gimmick. It isn't my choice for EDC. I like the DAO S&W models 3953 and 4053 for that duty.

I bought my Governor at an auction ($450 after fees) in 2014 for nightstand duty. I keep it in a Hornady RapidSafe under the nightstand while my EDC pistol spends the night resting on the nightstand along with my cell phone, glasses, earplugs, and a flashlight.

I got the Governor because I didn't want the hassle a long barrel shotgun presents for my family. My grandsons make frequent unannounced appearances during the week and I don't like the administrative handling a shotgun would need to keep out of their reach and be ready in the night for my wife and me.

My home defenses make it extremely difficult and time-consuming for an intruder to get into my bedroom. I have the door locked with a strengthened strike plate and a door bar. While the intruder kicks away at the door, I call 911, stay on the line so we have a recording of the events, and await the police to secure my home.

I load my Gov with Remington Ultimate combo .410/45C which at 7-yards can be devastating. The .410 ammo options have really expanded in the last 5 years for the handgun.

I suspect most naysayers have never touched a Governor much less shot one so take their opinions for what they are...

I like my Governor pistol. A Z-frame made with a lightweight alloy so it weighs less than 30 ounces unloaded. K-frame grips feel much like my old duty gun - a S&W Model 19-4. It is reliable and accurate with .410 shots grouping hand-size at 7-yards and the .45C pinging steel at 25 yards. I'm happy!

[dahermit]

I suspect most naysayers have never touched a Governor much less shot one so take their opinions for what they are...

So, when you used your Governor on those home intruders, what were the results compared to those home intruders you shot with other guns? Please be specific.

[44 AMP]

1. Is there a federal regulation that prevents a smooth bore shot-handgun?

Prevents? no. Regulates and severely restricts, yes.

Under Federal law (NFA 1934) a smooth bore shot handgun = shotgun. And a shotgun with a barrel with a length below the specified legal minimum, AND an overall length below the legal minimum, so legally its a "sawed off shotgun".

That makes in an NFA item, and essentially a sawed off shotgun requires you to go through the same process as a machine gun to legally own one. (This means filling out all the needed forms, getting written approval from your local law enforcement, paying the $200 tax and months of waiting, and what ever else the Feds demand, and that's when the govt is operating at its usual efficiency, which isn't the case at the moment...)

No gun company is going to make one, simply because the market is virtually nonexistent, due to federal law. Rifling the barrel removes the gun from the sawed off shotgun class, and while detrimental to a good pattern, its necessary for any (let alone good) sales.

I've got and have used the .410 in the Contender, and also have .45 Colt and .45 ACP pistols. My experience is that while neat and useful for some things, it is inferior to the long gun shotgun for shooting .410 and also inferior to my Ruger revolvers for shooting .45 Colt.

Some of the popularity of the .45/.410 revolvers is simply curiosity. I think a lot of the remaining interest is from under-experienced people believing the .410 pistol, being a "shotgun" has the strengths and abilities of popular shotgun myths.

It doesn't. And, neither do the large bores (12,16,& 20ga) that created the reputation those myths are based on.

Pattern spread created the myth about "not needing to aim", which, of course is untrue. Effectiveness of shotguns for defense at close range is derived from the mass of shot in the larger bore sizes. It does work, quite well, within its range limits. The .410 does not share this advantage to anywhere near the same degree.

I like the .410 its a great pest gun in a long arm. In a pistol, its fun, but not as easily used for equal effectiveness. Does make a fine rat wrecker at 20-30 feet, once you understand where the donut hole is going to be.

I think most of the people buying .45/.410 revolvers are expecting something that isn't quite what they get.

[Cheapshooter]

Had S&W brought the Governor out before Taurus had the Judge it would have been heralded by the internet gun geniuses as one of the most innovative self defense weapons in history. But because Taurus beat them to it by several years, they had plenty of time to criticize, ridicule, and mock the platform. So when S&W brought out the Governor, they couldn't suddenly turn back, and endorse it.
Yes, a bit gimmick, but more of a niche platform. No, it not a slf defense, or home defense shotgun. But it makes a heck of a great truck gun for carjacking defense when loaded with the proper ammo. Two or three OOO buck followed by a couple 45 Colt rounds for follow up. When Taurus first brought it out nobody was producing handgun specific 410 ammo. But with the loads now available it can be a devastating man stopper. Secondly, it serves double duty as a snake gun. #8 shot even out of the short barrel of my Judge PD Poly holds a pattern @ 10-15 feet that I doubt a nightcrawler would escpe. Let lone a Copperhead!
Third, they're fun shooting.

[jski]

Yep, the Taurus poor quality and limited feature revolver left many with the smell of gimmick in their noses.

But with a 6-round cylinder and the additional support for 45ACP moonclips plus S&W’s quality, we’re talking about a different platform now.

Oh yeah and BTW, in addition there’s the new 410
ammo from Federal and Hornady that have changed things dramatically!

[laytonj1]

But because Taurus beat them to it by several years

Actually, the Thunder 5 beat Taurus by several years.

I suspect most naysayers have never touched a Governor much less shot one so take their opinions for what they are...

I would truely like to hear the actual results of these being used in defensive encounters... anybody?

Jim

[aarondhgraham]

I've always thought that if Clint Eastwood made a final Dirty Harry movie,,,
This would be the gun he would carry in his old age.

Aarond

[laytonj1]

Originally Posted by aarondhgraham

I've always thought that if Clint Eastwood made a final Dirty Harry movie,,,
This would be the gun he would carry in his old age.

Aarond

I could just imagine him trying to hit and knock the bad guy down from 30 yards away with a 410.
But then again... movie magic.

Jim

[DaleA]

I could just imagine him trying to hit and knock the bad guy down from 30 yards away with a 410.
But then again... movie magic.

Exactly! In the hands of Harry Callahan a .410 shotshell handgun at 30 yards would totally CUISINART the bad guy! With you and me...well not so much.

[44caliberkid]

Harry would probably have one of the few 28 gauge Judges that made it into the country before the BATF said, No way!
And like Dale, I can't believe we're doing this again.

[44 AMP]

Anyone have any information on case life, shooting .45acp from the .45 Colt chambers??

The .45 Colt specs .480" at the case mouth, the .45acp specs .473 at the case base. So, that's at least .007" difference back and forth firing and resizing and firing etc. Once doesn't seem to matter, twice? probably not, beyond that? Anyone KNOW if ACP case life is noticeably shorter being fired in a Governator??

Doesn't seem very reloader friendly...

[Cheapshooter]

Actually, the Thunder 5 beat Taurus by several years.

But at a price thst kept it out of the range of most people.
Taurus made them affordable, and S&W prices the Governor nbetween Taurus, and the Thunder Five.
So, let's say Taurus beat S&W to mass marketing the 45/410 revolver by a couple years.

[Bill DeShivs]

Actually, under federal rules a smooth bore handgun is not a shotgun, nor is it a sawed off shotgun.
They are classified as "Any Other Weapon." It still costs $200 to make one, but subsequent transfers are only $5. Federal registration is still required.
A manufacturer with the proper licensing could make smooth bore .45/.410 pistols and sell them as AOWs with only the $5 transfer fee.