Conversion to Dillon (possibly), What About Dies?

[LBussy]

I've been thinking about moving from my Lee Turret Press to a Dillon 650. I'm sorta curious about what I can reuse. Most notably I wonder about the dies. I've got a few sets and would like to not have to re-purchase. Can I use these dies in the 650?

And if so, what confuses me is the 5 stations the 650 has versus the 4 my turret has. What goes in the 5th?

[ed308]

The fifth station is for the powder check system in the 3rd spot. $70 option that buzzes if gross over or under charge of powder. Worth it IMO and the reason I went with the 650 over the 550. I've not used Lee dies on mine except for the Factory Crimp die. I would think your Lee dies would be fine.

[ed308]

Another thought..., you could also use the extra station for bullet feeder instead of the powder check system.

[Unclenick]

LBusy,

The Dillon dies I have are made with a wider sizing die mouth radius than my Lee dies, and are dimensioned to minimum spec, where Lee dies are not as tight. They also have a spring assisted decapping pin reset to help knock spent primers out. These features are to ensure smooth progressive operation without stalls or hesitations due to catching and crushing the corner of a straight wall case's mouth, or a thin springy case not resizing enough to hold a bullet well or failing to feed in a self-loader, or a partially ejected primer from jamming the shell station rotation. In addition, their bottleneck rifle dies use a carbide expander ball, which I've found less prone to pulling necks off-axis than steel expander. (I retrofitted my Redding rifle sizing dies with carbide expanders twenty years ago, and used in conjunction with dry neck lube, they come close to eliminating the neck runout problem.)

That said, you can certainly use your Lee dies. Just have the expectation that with straight wall case's, if you have some catch on the case mouth, you may have to raise the ram slowly enough to center them, and that in all instances you want to watch (or listen) for the primer to drop before starting the downstroke.

[LBussy]

Originally Posted by ed308

The fifth station is for the powder check system in the 3rd spot. $70 option that buzzes if gross over or under charge of powder. Worth it IMO and the reason I went with the 650 over the 550

I've not had such a thing yet, I've relied upon just watching the charge in the cases. Might be a nice safeguard though.

Originally Posted by ed308

Another thought..., you could also use the extra station for bullet feeder instead of the powder check system.

Why would I need a full station to feed a bullet? I'd think it could drop them in on the seating station? Or am I missing something? I'd certainly like the bullet feed option eventually but choosing between features seems odd for a top of the line press.

Originally Posted by Unclenick

That said, you can certainly use your Lee dies. Just have the expectation that with straight wall case's, if you have some catch on the case mouth, you may have to raise the ram slowly enough to center them, and that in all instances you want to watch (or listen) for the primer to drop before starting the downstroke.

I have not started loading 9mm yet so I might buy the Dillon dies for that (I assume I can use those in my Lee press for a while?) to see how I like them. I'm familiar with that whole "catching" thing, but I just go slow and adjust as needed. Would be nice to worry about it less.

Not sure what you mean about the primer, I assume that will become self-evident when I start using the press?

[Unclenick]

If you have once-fired cases with factory crimped primers, you sometimes get one that the decapping pin deforms to an inverted peak without popping it out, or it forms the primer over the pin tip during decapping so it sticks to the pin, and when you withdraw the case from the die, it pulls the primer back into the pocket part way. So, now you have a deformed primer sticking out of the bottom of the case that rubs the floor under the shell plate during rotation and that blocks a fresh primer being seated at the priming station if you get it there. That's what I meant by wanting to see or hear the spent primer fall out on the up-stroke when you resize. If you aren't sure it fell out, take a look with a flashlight to see if you spot it protruding from the case head. If so, you can try to force the ram down and remove the case at the priming station before the upstroke is complete (when the Dillon seats the primer), or you can leave it at the sizing station, loosen your decapping rod retainer and move or drive the pin in to knock it out.

You shouldn't have this issue with Dillon dies for the 9 mm. Start there, get used to the machine, and once you have you can spot any issues easily. The Dillon dies will work fine in any standard press, with the single exception of their special dies for their Square Deal press, as they have threads that are smaller than standard.

[LBussy]

Thanks for explaining.

I generally decap and clean cases, then reload so it shouldn't be an issue. I'll have to keep that in mind if I get in a rush.

[T. O'Heir]

Dillon(who's warrantee is the same as RCBS' except it doesn't cover used kit. Plus there's a 30 day 'try it' policy.) presses use the same 7/8-14 threaded dies as everybody else. You would have to buy a separate "calibre conversion kit", that start at $149.95, if you want to load more than one cartridge. The kit comes with one such kit though(another decision you get to make.). The manual is there some place too.
https://www.dillonprecision.com/xl650_8_1_23803.html

[higgite]

I don’t have a Dillon press, but I was thinking that I had heard of problems with Lee dies not having long enough body threads to work in Dillon presses. (If it's on the internet, it has to be true, right?) Anyway, I Googled it to make sure I wasn’t dreaming and came across this Youtube video. It looks like they can be made to work. Is this common practice among Lee die/Dillon press users?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMyGD6xK8cU

[Chainsaw.]

Lee and RCBS dies work i the 650 fine. The lee pistols dies have a slightly shorter body so they will screw all the way into the tool plate but they work. The 650 is great. I dont have the case feeder yet so I just taped a funnel to the case tube for now

[BigJimP]

650 is a great press / i use Dillon dies & as mentioned they have some desireable features.

Powder check is worth every penny !! It's a significant safety factor ....your eyes will not pick up on a .3 or .4 variation in a powder drop....but powder check will.

No reason to deprime & clean....but often discussed on here.

[LBussy]

Originally Posted by BigJimP

650 is a great press / i use Dillon dies & as mentioned they have some desireable features.

Powder check is worth every penny !! It's a significant safety factor ....your eyes will not pick up on a .3 or .4 variation in a powder drop....but powder check will.

No reason to deprime & clean....but often discussed on here.

If I understand things correctly, if I want a bullet feeder I have to give up on the powder check?

As far as depriming and cleaning ... I like it.

[jmorris]

This is a video of my 45 ACP 650 with bullet feeder, powder check, using Lee dies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3hVi6PuduM

And one of my 9mm 650 with bullet feeder, powder check and Lee dies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl63cR9Y_Y0&t=17s


Only Dillon’s pistol dies have the spring loaded decapping pin. Their rifle dies have a built in stuck case remover instead.

Powder check dies can even alert you to other issues, you may or may not have noticed, even if your powder charge is right on the money.

Like this example, on a 1050, also using Lee dies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EU9deSKm48&t=2s

[LBussy]

Originally Posted by jmorris

This is a video of my 45 ACP 650 with bullet feeder, powder check, using Lee dies

Is that a different kind of bullet feeder than the one supplied on the Dillon website?

I can see that I have a lot to learn even before I start putting my money down.

[Jim Watson]

As said, Lee dies will work.
A set of the narrow Dillon lock rings will help installation, but you can use the big o-ring lock rings.

[jmorris]

Is that a different kind of bullet feeder than the one supplied on the Dillon website?

Yes, the double alpha one, like other “dropper style” bullet feeders causes you to loose a station, as they just set a bullet on top of the case.

On the 650, you either have to put it in #3 (loosing the powder check) or combine seat and crimp on #5, put the dropper in #4, keeping the PC at #3.

The GSI feeders, in the videos above, feed and seat to depth at #4, leaving #5 for crimp and #3 for PC.

[ed308]

The GSI feeders, in the videos above, feed and seat to depth at #4, leaving #5 for crimp and #3 for PC.

Did not know that. Nice. Wish they weren't so expensive.

[jmorris]

Did not know that. Nice. Wish they weren't so expensive.

The part of them that’s expensive was the collator (why all my collators are homemade), the bullet feeders/billet tool heads were not that bad at all.

However, they are only going to become more expensive now, as it seems they are no longer in production.

[LBussy]

Hrmph ... I suppose Dillon, by endorsing the Double Alpha/MBF one, ran the other one out of business.

[Unclenick]

I'd forgotten the spring wasn't in the rifle dies, but checked, and, sure enough, my .308 and .223 Dillon dies don't have them. I, too, decap and clean rifle cases before resizing, so I suppose I hadn't had occasion to notice from an operating standpoint.

[BigJimP]

In my opinion, bullet feeders are overrated...even if you're loading large volumes of handgun ammo... ( 3,000 plus rounds in an afternoon )...giving up the powder check die for a bullet feeder, is not worth it in my view.

On my 650, I routinely run 700 - 800 rds an hour...with no help / and I set the bullet on the case in between stations 3 and 4... / its an easy rhythm...

[LBussy]

Originally Posted by BigJimP

In my opinion, bullet feeders are overrated...even if you're loading large volumes of handgun ammo... ( 3,000 plus rounds in an afternoon )...giving up the powder check die for a bullet feeder, is not worth it in my view.

On my 650, I routinely run 700 - 800 rds an hour...with no help / and I set the bullet on the case in between stations 3 and 4... / its an easy rhythm...

I'd been musing on that this afternoon. Based on my work on a turret press I can see where that rhythm could set in and it would not slow a guy down much. If nothing else I could save the money and not get the bullet feeder right away and see if I miss it.

Now a case feeder, I can see that being a big help.

[jmorris]

Hrmph ... I suppose Dillon, by endorsing the Double Alpha/MBF one, ran the other one out of business.

GSI is owned by Xavier Gonzales, he worked for Dillon for more than 20 years in design and development. The GSI feeder was in the Blue Press more than a decade ago, with a collator that never made it to market.

The lack of a fool proof collator was one thing that hurt the GSI feeder. I bought my first one from them before they developed a collator at all. I talked to Mr. Gonzales after I developed my own collator, that was 100% but they had finalized their design by that point.

In any case, they are not “out of business” rather pursuing more lucrative business, with military/LEO products. Among their customers are Dillon Aero, Dillon Precision, Nasa and Navy Crane.

I have original KISS feeders and their collators are simple and work well enough. After the partners split they changed to Mr. Bulletfeeder, then the design was trimmed down again with the partnership with Double Alpha.

If you don’t think a bullet feeder is of any benefit go watch that 2nd video in post #13 and then try and find a video of someone loading 100 rounds in under 4 minutes feeding bullets by hand. The real sweet part is it’s much less work, just stroke the handle and keep your eyes on the processes.

[LBussy]

Regardless of who Xavier Gonzales is, or how well he innovates, or what he now makes, the GSI bullet feeder is for all intents and purposes no longer available. Sure a guy might find a NOS or used one but they are not in that business anymore. Therefore the choice is to have the powder check or a bullet feeder (or possibly lose the separate crimp).

So, do I think the bullet feeder is of any benefit? Sure I do. Do I know it's of more benefit than the safety net provided by the powder check? I don't know. I do know a 650 without a bullet feeder is faster than I am right now with a turret press so I might never miss that speed.

... or I may decide that my powder throw and a careful eye is good enough and get the bullet feeder. Who knows? I do know it's frustrating to look at purchasing a high end press and all of a sudden have to make choices on what feature not to have.

[BigJimP]

Yes, the Dillon case feeder is a very good option / ...the 650 is really designed to be run with the case feeder ( with sta 1 ...on the back side - at the right )...