What killed the Automag?

GaryED50 · November 20, 2014, 08:49 PM

Hey guys

Everything I've read and seen says the Automag was a pretty neat auto pistol. Was it just stupidity on the part of its creators? or just a bad marketing era for a new magnum offering?

What do you guys think?

Gary

Lemmon · November 20, 2014, 09:50 PM

In the 1970's (I think?) there was a gun shop in North Charleston, SC that had a few Automag pistols on display. I was excited to just be able to look and hold a couple of them. Very heavy compared to the revolvers that I was familiar with. The building the ammunition did not scare me as much as to the price of getting all the stuff needed and the cost of the pistol itself. Beautiful buy it just cost to much for me just starting out in world....... I did finally get a Desert Eagle 44 which I love...

Lemmon from rural South Carolina......

2ndsojourn · November 20, 2014, 10:50 PM

It's Auto Mag.

And it cost too much.
Plus it used proprietary ammo.

**Tom Servo** · November 20, 2014, 11:17 PM

High cost and terrible reliability for the most part. The company was plagued by poor management. I also recall something about a lawsuit.

Anyhow, ownership passed between several companies. High Standard still produces some of their designs.

Snyper · November 21, 2014, 12:28 AM

AMT made nice looking guns
They seldom performed as they should for very long

James K · November 21, 2014, 01:54 AM

IIRC, the bolt was held in by two fairly small rods. I recall wondering what would happen if they broke or came loose somehow. I don't know that any ever did, but the thing reminded me of the old Infallible pistol and I never quite wanted to take a chance of having my face re-arranged, even though that might have been an improvement.

Jim

Lemmon · November 21, 2014, 02:37 AM

If I remember correctly the Auto Mag brass could be made from 308/30-06/243 ect stock by cutting to length and reaming the case mouth. I have made 30 and 357 Herriet?? brass out of 30-30 brass... Not like buying it from company like Starline. I do believe the ammunition could be purchased by venders but you paid through the nose for it......

Lemmon from Rural South Carolina....Retired and enjoying the good life.

James K · November 21, 2014, 02:55 AM

One of the weirdest gun incidents I ever experienced was with an Automag. A friend was shooting his when it jammed. The round from the magazine would not go in the chamber. We checked the usual things (cartridge, chamber, etc., and saw nothing wrong. Then I looked through the barrel and it was blocked. Thinking he had a stuck bullet, I used a cleaning rod to see if the obstruction would come out, and it did. It was the case of the last round he fired, and it was in the chamber backward! That accounted for the fact that the chamber appeared to be empty.

As best we could analyze the "problem", the gun fired, then the recoil caused it to catch up with the ejected case, which then somehow entered the chamber base first.

Had anyone told me that could happen, I would have been very skeptical, and I would not be too offended if some folks think I am drawing the long bow here, but it really did happen!

Jim

Sevens · November 21, 2014, 06:54 AM

At the risk of straying, I certainly don't find it too hard to believe. We recently had a thread where folks described odd occurrences and one poster's just took the cake - he ended up with a stovepipe in his pistol... but with a piece of Blazer aluminum that his shooting buddy was running. He was running brass in his own pistol. I -still- chuckle at that one.

Guv · November 21, 2014, 07:25 AM

Homely Looks!

I could have bought a really nice one from a friend but even at his very reasonable price couldn't justify the cost.

B.L.E. · November 21, 2014, 08:12 AM

Probably the fact that Dirty Harry didn't use one in the movie.

Also, being a semi auto, you don't have the flexibility of shooting low power ammo for plinking and people who reload their ammo like guns where the empty cases stay in the chambers until they are ready to reload.

**Tom Servo** · November 21, 2014, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Probably the fact that Dirty Harry didn't use one in the movie.

Actually, it was used in Sudden Impact.

micromontenegro · November 21, 2014, 09:49 AM

-Unavailability. Very few around.

-Ammo unavailability.

-Price.

Howard31 · November 21, 2014, 10:12 AM

I had a TDE in the 70's , bought it used and it was $700 . That was a lot of money back then . As a Shooter it was awkward . The grip was like a 2x4 . I really had a problem with it . It was a major job getting the 7th round into the magazine . I had difficulty chambering the first round into the chamber . I literally had to brace the gun against my leg and pull the bolt back . It was not easy.
Brass was never a problem because it can be easily made from 06 or similar cases. However it was mostly once fired because the brass really flew and you could never recover them all.
I never had function problems and it performed flawlessly and it was very accurate. It never seemed to out do my Model 29 and when a friend offered me more than I paid for it I jumped on it . I never missed it .

745SW · November 21, 2014, 03:59 PM

I don’t recall ever seeing one in any shop I visited during the 70s and 80s. Viewed and handled a used one in the 90s I believe and the hand fit or no fit was a joke. My trigger finger wouldn’t reach the trigger at all.

rock185 · November 21, 2014, 04:09 PM

Gary, when I returned from a Government all expense paid tour of Viet Nam in early 1970, I recall seeing an ad for the Automag for the first time. It was in Guns & Ammo and the list price was just over $200.00 IIRC. It doesn't seem like much now, but it was significant money for a pistol at the time. Never saw one in a shop back then, but seems to me they were taking deposits, and I considered one. Before I pursued it any further, I began to hear reports that Automag was having a problem in actually producing and delivering guns to customers. I didn't hear of problems with the guns themselves, just with actually getting tham into customer's hands. I don't recall personally see an Automag until some years later. It seemed kind of like the situation that was to occur later with the Bren Ten.........ymmv

SIGSHR · November 21, 2014, 04:50 PM

AMT seems to have been something of a hard luck company, probably a company founded and run by someone who was a gifted designer and idea man but not a good manager and businessman. My AMT Hardballer is one of my treasures, others have reported problems with them, like with the AMT Backup.
In the case of the Automag, it was one of those "Oh Wow!" things that everyone gushes over-the old "They Oughta Make!" syndrome, then when somebody does-nobody buys it. And it doesn't help when you can't deliver.

Snyper · November 21, 2014, 07:04 PM

Quote:

run by someone who was a gifted designer

They weren't even that, since many of their guns were just copies of others, which is what caused them to go bankrupt when sued by Ruger

They made a couple of Ruger copies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMT_Lightning_25/22

Quote:

As is alluded to in the nomenclature, the Lightning 25/22 is functionally a clone of the Ruger 10/22 with the substitution of a larger 25-round magazine instead of the 10-round magazine used by Ruger.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMT_Lightning_pistol

Quote:

The pistol was an unlicensed low-cost clone of the Ruger Mark II pistol and, along with the AMT Lightning 25/22 rifle, prompted a successful trademark infringement lawsuit from Ruger that helped bankrupt the company.

phudd · November 21, 2014, 07:43 PM

I used to really want one. Probably because I read a lot of Mack Bolan books in my youth...

orionengnr · November 21, 2014, 09:13 PM

To some of us who grew up in a certain time and watched all the Dirty Harry movies, it was an iconic pistol.

Still...I never actually considered owning one until 10-15 years ago. And I actually had the opportunity (very briefly) to buy a .357 AutoMag at a gun show back in 2001-2002.

Yeah, it wasn't a .44, but it was only about $1000. Should have jumped on it, but didn't. have never seen another for anywhere near that price.

I'm sure there is a lesson in there somewhere...

2123 · November 21, 2014, 09:32 PM

Things come and go.

The Auto Mag was a victim of the later.

mete · November 21, 2014, 09:36 PM

It never got past the development stage ! Many promises were made but never fullfilled.
Jeff Cooper made comments about that.
It's a common story promises of huge production to get funding but huge production couldn't happen because it was a specialty gun with limited demand.
Like the Miami Vice pistol .Starting a gun company - which parts to make , which to buy . Some said the only mags available went to the TV show ! That one at least had some possibilities.

somerled · November 21, 2014, 09:38 PM

Harry Sanford didn't have a good business plan. His son still has some parts.

http://automagparts.com/

**Tom Servo** · November 21, 2014, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Like the Miami Vice pistol .Starting a gun company - which parts to make , which to buy . Some said the only mags available went to the TV show ! That one at least had some possibilities.

Ah, yes. The Bren Ten. Somewhere I still have one of the coupons you could send in for a spare magazine, should they ever be made available.

It's, uh, been awhile on that.

Creek Henry · November 22, 2014, 12:46 AM

No one really needs a very powerful semi auto. Too much recoil for a fire fight and don't need a semi for hunting...

November 20, 2014, 08:49 PM	#1
GaryED50 Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2012 Location: Dawsonville Georgia Posts: 542	What killed the Automag? Hey guys Everything I've read and seen says the Automag was a pretty neat auto pistol. Was it just stupidity on the part of its creators? or just a bad marketing era for a new magnum offering? What do you guys think? Gary

November 20, 2014, 09:50 PM	#2
Lemmon Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2009 Location: Rural South Carolina Posts: 445	..... it just cost to much,,,,, In the 1970's (I think?) there was a gun shop in North Charleston, SC that had a few Automag pistols on display. I was excited to just be able to look and hold a couple of them. Very heavy compared to the revolvers that I was familiar with. The building the ammunition did not scare me as much as to the price of getting all the stuff needed and the cost of the pistol itself. Beautiful buy it just cost to much for me just starting out in world....... I did finally get a Desert Eagle 44 which I love... Lemmon from rural South Carolina......

November 20, 2014, 10:50 PM	#3
2ndsojourn Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 1,416	It's Auto Mag. And it cost too much. Plus it used proprietary ammo. Last edited by 2ndsojourn; November 20, 2014 at 10:56 PM.

November 20, 2014, 11:17 PM	#4
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,095	High cost and terrible reliability for the most part. The company was plagued by poor management. I also recall something about a lawsuit. Anyhow, ownership passed between several companies. High Standard still produces some of their designs. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

November 21, 2014, 02:37 AM	#7
Lemmon Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 2009 Location: Rural South Carolina Posts: 445	Auto Mag ammunition If I remember correctly the Auto Mag brass could be made from 308/30-06/243 ect stock by cutting to length and reaming the case mouth. I have made 30 and 357 Herriet?? brass out of 30-30 brass... Not like buying it from company like Starline. I do believe the ammunition could be purchased by venders but you paid through the nose for it...... Lemmon from Rural South Carolina....Retired and enjoying the good life.

November 21, 2014, 12:28 AM	#5
Snyper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 3,047	AMT made nice looking guns They seldom performed as they should for very long

November 21, 2014, 01:54 AM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	IIRC, the bolt was held in by two fairly small rods. I recall wondering what would happen if they broke or came loose somehow. I don't know that any ever did, but the thing reminded me of the old Infallible pistol and I never quite wanted to take a chance of having my face re-arranged, even though that might have been an improvement. Jim

November 21, 2014, 02:55 AM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	One of the weirdest gun incidents I ever experienced was with an Automag. A friend was shooting his when it jammed. The round from the magazine would not go in the chamber. We checked the usual things (cartridge, chamber, etc., and saw nothing wrong. Then I looked through the barrel and it was blocked. Thinking he had a stuck bullet, I used a cleaning rod to see if the obstruction would come out, and it did. It was the case of the last round he fired, and it was in the chamber backward! That accounted for the fact that the chamber appeared to be empty. As best we could analyze the "problem", the gun fired, then the recoil caused it to catch up with the ejected case, which then somehow entered the chamber base first. Had anyone told me that could happen, I would have been very skeptical, and I would not be too offended if some folks think I am drawing the long bow here, but it really did happen! Jim

November 21, 2014, 06:54 AM	#9
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,775	At the risk of straying, I certainly don't find it too hard to believe. We recently had a thread where folks described odd occurrences and one poster's just took the cake - he ended up with a stovepipe in his pistol... but with a piece of Blazer aluminum that his shooting buddy was running. He was running brass in his own pistol. I -still- chuckle at that one. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

November 21, 2014, 07:25 AM	#10
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	Homely Looks! I could have bought a really nice one from a friend but even at his very reasonable price couldn't justify the cost.

November 21, 2014, 08:12 AM	#11
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	Probably the fact that Dirty Harry didn't use one in the movie. Also, being a semi auto, you don't have the flexibility of shooting low power ammo for plinking and people who reload their ammo like guns where the empty cases stay in the chambers until they are ready to reload.

November 21, 2014, 09:49 AM	#13
micromontenegro Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2010 Posts: 671	-Unavailability. Very few around. -Ammo unavailability. -Price.

November 21, 2014, 10:12 AM	#14
Howard31 Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2009 Location: Hudson Valley,NY Posts: 231	44 Auto Mag I had a TDE in the 70's , bought it used and it was $700 . That was a lot of money back then . As a Shooter it was awkward . The grip was like a 2x4 . I really had a problem with it . It was a major job getting the 7th round into the magazine . I had difficulty chambering the first round into the chamber . I literally had to brace the gun against my leg and pull the bolt back . It was not easy. Brass was never a problem because it can be easily made from 06 or similar cases. However it was mostly once fired because the brass really flew and you could never recover them all. I never had function problems and it performed flawlessly and it was very accurate. It never seemed to out do my Model 29 and when a friend offered me more than I paid for it I jumped on it . I never missed it .

November 21, 2014, 03:59 PM	#15
745SW Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2011 Location: California Posts: 776	I don’t recall ever seeing one in any shop I visited during the 70s and 80s. Viewed and handled a used one in the 90s I believe and the hand fit or no fit was a joke. My trigger finger wouldn’t reach the trigger at all.

November 21, 2014, 04:09 PM	#16
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,120	Gary, when I returned from a Government all expense paid tour of Viet Nam in early 1970, I recall seeing an ad for the Automag for the first time. It was in Guns & Ammo and the list price was just over $200.00 IIRC. It doesn't seem like much now, but it was significant money for a pistol at the time. Never saw one in a shop back then, but seems to me they were taking deposits, and I considered one. Before I pursued it any further, I began to hear reports that Automag was having a problem in actually producing and delivering guns to customers. I didn't hear of problems with the guns themselves, just with actually getting tham into customer's hands. I don't recall personally see an Automag until some years later. It seemed kind of like the situation that was to occur later with the Bren Ten.........ymmv __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life Last edited by rock185; November 21, 2014 at 04:15 PM.

November 21, 2014, 04:50 PM	#17
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,712	AMT seems to have been something of a hard luck company, probably a company founded and run by someone who was a gifted designer and idea man but not a good manager and businessman. My AMT Hardballer is one of my treasures, others have reported problems with them, like with the AMT Backup. In the case of the Automag, it was one of those "Oh Wow!" things that everyone gushes over-the old "They Oughta Make!" syndrome, then when somebody does-nobody buys it. And it doesn't help when you can't deliver.

November 21, 2014, 07:43 PM	#19
phudd Member Join Date: November 16, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 25	I used to really want one. Probably because I read a lot of Mack Bolan books in my youth...

November 21, 2014, 09:13 PM	#20
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,213	To some of us who grew up in a certain time and watched all the Dirty Harry movies, it was an iconic pistol. Still...I never actually considered owning one until 10-15 years ago. And I actually had the opportunity (very briefly) to buy a .357 AutoMag at a gun show back in 2001-2002. Yeah, it wasn't a .44, but it was only about $1000. Should have jumped on it, but didn't. have never seen another for anywhere near that price. I'm sure there is a lesson in there somewhere...

November 21, 2014, 09:32 PM	#21
2123 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2014 Location: It changes.....a lot. Posts: 356	Things come and go. The Auto Mag was a victim of the later.

November 21, 2014, 09:36 PM	#22
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	It never got past the development stage ! Many promises were made but never fullfilled. Jeff Cooper made comments about that. It's a common story promises of huge production to get funding but huge production couldn't happen because it was a specialty gun with limited demand. Like the Miami Vice pistol .Starting a gun company - which parts to make , which to buy . Some said the only mags available went to the TV show ! That one at least had some possibilities.

November 21, 2014, 09:38 PM	#23
somerled Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2005 Location: eastern Kansas Posts: 603	Harry Sanford didn't have a good business plan. His son still has some parts. http://automagparts.com/

November 22, 2014, 12:46 AM	#25
Creek Henry Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Location: Dallas Posts: 514	No one really needs a very powerful semi auto. Too much recoil for a fire fight and don't need a semi for hunting...