International Powder for Pistols

rglassma · March 2, 2014, 10:17 AM

Hello All,

As most of you know, at this point, the smokeless powder availability right now is like scarce to nil. I have a friend that has offered me some Hodgdon International and/or Herco in a new container if I want it.

I have researched the subject on the net for 2 days and have found the following information, but still don't feel comfortable using it for my pistols due to some inconsistencies in the information:

Equivalent stated by ADI (Australia):

Int'l clays = AS50N (and AP50N - except for flake size by third parties)
AP50N/AS50N = HP38, E3, PB, W231, GD, 700X, WST, AA2, AA5, N320

But, when I look for load data both on ADI's guide, hodgdon, and Manufacturers guides, they are all totally different. On top of that, load data on gun forums differ as well. This of course doesn't give me a warm fuzzy about using either of the powders.

Since I manually weight each load with a RCBS 1500, and double check it on another scale, I am not necessarily concerned about flake size.

I want to load this stuff for 45ACP (1911), 38 SPC (Mod. 60) and 9MM (P226, 39-2). I want it to be safe of course.

Anyone have any additional information that will shed light on this issue, or should I just pass and continue to use up what I have..

Thanks in advance for some direction by you far more experienced reloaders.

Bob Glassman
Littleton, CO

jwrowland77 · March 2, 2014, 10:24 AM

Only thing I could find for Herco was for the 45 ACP. Found on Alliants website.

I don't know about the international.

Edit: I looked for international and all I could really see is that it's mainly a shotshell powder.

zxcvbob · March 2, 2014, 10:33 AM

I bought one 14 oz jar of International to play with a few years ago. Hodgdon used to publish a little pistol reloading data for it, mostly "cowboy" data, but now they don't because the powder allegedly gets unpredictable at the upper end. So I keep it below max, and only in relatively low pressure cartridges (below about 20000 psi.) It works well like that. When I use this up, I probably won't buy it again unless it is all I can find. I've already pretty much retired it, but I haven't tried it in .45 Colt yet...

It seems to be almost interchangeable with Green Dot or Titegroup, but the key word there is "almost". When a manufacturer or distributor says "don't use our product", that's a pretty strong warning.

You also mentioned Herco -- you should pounce on that one.

rglassma · March 2, 2014, 07:11 PM

Thanks for the response. What should I use for Herco?

zxcvbob · March 3, 2014, 01:42 AM

Herco is like Unique with longer legs

It works really well in magnum revolvers with heavy cast bullets. But it should be quite usable in all the cartridges you listed -- it's a little slow for .38 Special and a little bulky for 9mm, but I think it'll work.

http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre.../Alliant01.pdf

.38SPL enthusiast · March 5, 2014, 12:00 AM

I would get both If I could. International powder works really well for me in light target loads for the .38 special. However, I don't think I would use it in either of the automatic cartridges you listed because of pressure issues. My batch of International was very similar to Alliant's Green Dot in velocity per powder charge. It seemed a little slower burning than IMR 700X, but cleaner. ADI lists at least one or two established loads on their website under cowboy loads. International is ADI's AS-50N, not to be confused with AP-50N.

March 2, 2014, 10:17 AM	#1
rglassma Junior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 11	International Powder for Pistols Hello All, As most of you know, at this point, the smokeless powder availability right now is like scarce to nil. I have a friend that has offered me some Hodgdon International and/or Herco in a new container if I want it. I have researched the subject on the net for 2 days and have found the following information, but still don't feel comfortable using it for my pistols due to some inconsistencies in the information: Equivalent stated by ADI (Australia): Int'l clays = AS50N (and AP50N - except for flake size by third parties) AP50N/AS50N = HP38, E3, PB, W231, GD, 700X, WST, AA2, AA5, N320 But, when I look for load data both on ADI's guide, hodgdon, and Manufacturers guides, they are all totally different. On top of that, load data on gun forums differ as well. This of course doesn't give me a warm fuzzy about using either of the powders. Since I manually weight each load with a RCBS 1500, and double check it on another scale, I am not necessarily concerned about flake size. I want to load this stuff for 45ACP (1911), 38 SPC (Mod. 60) and 9MM (P226, 39-2). I want it to be safe of course. Anyone have any additional information that will shed light on this issue, or should I just pass and continue to use up what I have.. Thanks in advance for some direction by you far more experienced reloaders. Bob Glassman Littleton, CO

March 2, 2014, 10:24 AM	#2
jwrowland77 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2012 Location: Conway, Arkansas Posts: 1,398	International Powder for Pistols Only thing I could find for Herco was for the 45 ACP. Found on Alliants website. I don't know about the international. Edit: I looked for international and all I could really see is that it's mainly a shotshell powder.

March 2, 2014, 10:33 AM	#3
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	I bought one 14 oz jar of International to play with a few years ago. Hodgdon used to publish a little pistol reloading data for it, mostly "cowboy" data, but now they don't because the powder allegedly gets unpredictable at the upper end. So I keep it below max, and only in relatively low pressure cartridges (below about 20000 psi.) It works well like that. When I use this up, I probably won't buy it again unless it is all I can find. I've already pretty much retired it, but I haven't tried it in .45 Colt yet... It seems to be almost interchangeable with Green Dot or Titegroup, but the key word there is "almost". When a manufacturer or distributor says "don't use our product", that's a pretty strong warning. You also mentioned Herco -- you should pounce on that one. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

March 3, 2014, 01:42 AM	#5
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Herco is like Unique with longer legs It works really well in magnum revolvers with heavy cast bullets. But it should be quite usable in all the cartridges you listed -- it's a little slow for .38 Special and a little bulky for 9mm, but I think it'll work. http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre.../Alliant01.pdf __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

March 2, 2014, 07:11 PM	#4
rglassma Junior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 11	Thanks for the response. What should I use for Herco?

March 5, 2014, 12:00 AM	#6
.38SPL enthusiast Member Join Date: August 21, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 78	I would get both If I could. International powder works really well for me in light target loads for the .38 special. However, I don't think I would use it in either of the automatic cartridges you listed because of pressure issues. My batch of International was very similar to Alliant's Green Dot in velocity per powder charge. It seemed a little slower burning than IMR 700X, but cleaner. ADI lists at least one or two established loads on their website under cowboy loads. International is ADI's AS-50N, not to be confused with AP-50N.