9mm 124gr Berry HBFP recommendations

[c4v3man]

Apparently Berry's says 1.060 is fine for the bullet, but other threads have posted that 1.090 is recommended. Hogdon's also shows 1.090 for a sierra fmj bullet, so I'm struggling with that. I have yet to try the drop test, I will do that tomorrow, so I'm not really asking for OAL, but I'm open to suggestions.

I currently have Clays (not universal or international) and apparently this is poorly thought of for 9mm loading. Is that correct, or is it fine for mousefart loads? If I need to purchase a different powder, would titegroup be fine, as this seems to have been mentioned in other threads, or should I use something else for 9mm. I am using a RCBS piggyback conversion, and have loaded a ton of .38's and some 45acp in the past, but this will be my first 9mm loading. Using clays in the included powder measure has always seemed fairly consistent, within .1 grains when I do spot checks every few rounds. Using in both a glock 34 and a M&P Pro 9.


*I understand that these are suggestions, and accept all risk inherent with reloading, etc*
Thanks for the help, it's much appreciated.

[NWPilgrim]

I JUST reloaded this exact bullet for the first time. I have a HP35 that has a very tight chamber and will not take this bullet at anything more than 1.070" COL. Most of my FMJ roundnose bullets will seat at least out to a COL of 1.155". But this Berry's bullet has such a long straight ody and blunt taper that it will not chamber if seated longer than 1.070".

[Scimmia]

I currently have Clays (not universal or international) and apparently this is poorly thought of for 9mm loading. Is that correct, or is it fine for mousefart loads? If I need to purchase a different powder, would titegroup be fine, as this seems to have been mentioned in other threads, or should I use something else for 9mm.

Both Clays and Titegroup are very fast powders. This means they'll burn quickly and spike the pressure early especially in the small case volume of 9mm. This really limits how much powder can be used without creating too much pressure. If you're not looking for anything more than very light target loads, they can work, but if you want more than that you need to be looking at slower powders.

[c4v3man]

Hogdon's lists a starter load of 3.5gr to max load of 3.7gr for a 125gr FMJ Sierra bullet. Should I start at 3.5gr, or back off slightly. From what I've read, plated bullets should be loaded at or near FMJ loads.

This load is for target practice, and perhaps entry-level idpa shooting. We don't chrono the rounds at the matches (it's very low-key), so I'm not concerned about hitting the base power factor, although I'm not looking to cheat either. At the 1000fps that hogdon's online chart lists, I should be right at the power factor anyways.

125 GR. LCN Hodgdon Clays .356" 1.125" 2.9 899 22,700 CUP 3.3 993 30,900 CUP
125 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon Clays .355" 1.090" 3.5 1010 28,000 CUP 3.7 1056 32,500 CUP

[Hammerhead]

Both Clays and Titegroup are very fast powders. This means they'll burn quickly and spike the pressure early especially in the small case volume of 9mm. This really limits how much powder can be used without creating too much pressure. If you're not looking for anything more than very light target loads, they can work, but if you want more than that you need to be looking at slower powders.

Well said.

I used 1.090" for Berry's 124 HBFP-TP in my Glock 19, should work just fine in your Glock 34. Glocks handle long cartridge lengths without issue IME. Not sure about your M&P. Make up some dummy rounds (no primer, no powder) and try to feed them into your guns from the magazine by racking the slide and letting it fly forward. Measure them afterwards to see if they are being set back into the cases. The drop test or push test is not an accurate way to test your rounds.

In my CZ 75B I had to shorten up the rounds to 1.058" so they would not hit the rifling when chambered.

With plated bullets I use data for jacketed bullets and stay at least 10% below the max charge. I've found that Hodgdon's data for jacketed bullets is very close to what I see over the chronograph with plated bullets.

If you want to push for max velocities use a jacketed bullet (and slow powder).


Consider a slower powder like Universal or my favorite, SR 7625. 9mm is very sensitive to changes in bullet seating depth, slight overcharges and bullet set back. A slower powder gives you a little more of a safety margin.

[dunerjeff]

I second that SR7625,good,but overlooked powder.Another one would be HP-38. In my XDM I had to seat them to 1.065,in the Berettas I could get away with 1.105OAL

[c4v3man]

Not sure if I can get SR7625 locally, but I should be able to get universal.

Unless someone feels I can safely load clays at a low level, then I guess I'll just go the universal route. Looking at the loading data, it appears as if universal has a lower pressure at the same or higher fps as sr7625.... is sr7625 cleaner than universal, or why else would you recommend it? Better metering?

[dunerjeff]

I have not used Universal so I can't compare the two.SR7625 is pretty clean,I like it because it meters good , it's a small flat flake, and it is really consistant. Most of the loads I tried with it are some of my most accurate loads. Universal is a little slower so it will be able to produce more speed with less pressure, but if your not maxing out anyway,it will do the same. I think that it would be a better powder than Titegroup, as far as safety or pressure spikes. If you have Universal, I won't suggest not trying it though, many people do like it, I just gave you another good powder to try if you want.

[serf 'rett]

I like the Berrys 124 HBFP, but it does have a different profile. My OAL of 1.070" keeps the bullet about 0.015" off the lands in my XDm. A OAL of 1.090" would have the round headspacing off the bullet in that pistol. My other 9mm could handle a little longer length due to a chamber difference, but I keep things simple by loading to the shorter length.

After testing five different powders, I'm currently using W-231 for target loads and Power Pistol for higher velocity loads.

[Hammerhead]

SR 7625 and Universal will burn cleanly in 9mm as long as you're not on the bottom of the data chart. Minimum loads of any powder will be dirty.

[c4v3man]

Loaded a dummy round, and the first 2 times I chambered it the OAL didn't change, after doing it another 5 times or so shortened about .0015 to an oal of 1.090 to 1.0885, so I'm assuming that's fine (I would expect some setback after chambering it that many times).

Should I load according to Hogdon's 125gr FMJ Sierra minimum specifications, or somewhere between the 125gr lcn and 125gr fmj sierra?

Thanks for the help everyone.

[Hammerhead]

That little set back is excellent.
If it were me I would use Hodgdon's data for the 125 FMJ.

[c4v3man]

Loaded about 10 at starting loads according to hogdon. I've noticed my oal varies from 1.095 to 1.085 depending largely on case mfg. From what I've read, a .010 variance isn't worth worrying about, would you agree that this is fine? I used to only reload starline brass in. 38, but I'm using random mfgs for 9mm.

[Hammerhead]

Mixed brass will do that, .010" is no big deal.

With sorted brass I get about .003" difference.

[pgdion]

I use the 124gr FP (no hollow back) so my volumes are a little less but I wasn't liking the pressure signs of 1.090 - 1.100 OAL (with 4.7gr Unique). I've started setting mine to 1.120 and just resolved myself to only using the 124gr FP in certain guns. They work in all my Beretta's (92's and Cougar) but I can't use them in my 5906. I'm ok with that since the Cougar is my dominant platform for this round anyhow.
I'm loading with 4.9gr of Unique.

[c4v3man]

The store was out of Universal Clays, so I bought 1# of HP-38 instead, which according to Hogdon's data is an even lower pressure load than Universal. So I'm hoping I'll be fine on the pressure front. I'll report back once I have some results (Have IDPA this weekend, so I'll try to group a few after the match and test them out).

Thanks for the help everyone.

[serf 'rett]

You should be able to work up a excellent target load with the HP-38. I have one load with 4.0 grains of new W-231 (same stuff as HP-38), R-P brass and a CCI primer that groups well. A co-worker gave me a 3 pound can of W-231, guessing its 20+ years old, which I have been using with R-P brass and Wolf primers. With 3.6 grains, the groups are even better that those with the new powder.

[c4v3man]

I was actually loading mine at 4.4gr, since that's the starting load for the FMJ rounds. I'll make up a batch at 4gr and see how they compare. 3.6gr is below the starting load for even lead 125rn according to Hogdon... hope I'm not reading this wrong.

Edit: not being critical, just noting the data I've read. If it works for you then great!

[Hammerhead]

I used 4.5 HP38 with the 124 HBFP @ 1.090" COL for one batch. No issues. Didn't get a chance to chrono it.

[serf 'rett]

cv4 – You are right about my 3.6 grain W-231 load being less than the Hodgdon load data. The load information in different manuals is confusing to say the least. For kicks and giggles, let's look at the 124/125 grain bullet in lead or Speer TMJ with W-231 powder.

Lyman - start 3.2, max 4.2
Lee - start 3.3, max 4.0
Hodgdon - start 3.9, max 4.4
Speer - start 4.0, max 4.5

Then we find jacketed data has higher charge weights. To make matters more confusing - I was loading a OAL length which was shorter than the lengths shown in the manuals. The shorter length will generally result in higher pressure.

My testing work up was based on the more conservative Lyman lead bullet data. I loaded and tested a range from 3.2 to 4.2 in 0.2 grain increments and then compared the groups from the testing. Best group of the series was selected and more rounds were loaded and shot to verify the first round of testing FOR THAT PARTICULAR PISTOL. I do find it interesting to test a series of reloads and observe the groups tighten and scatter through a range of powder charges, with all other components the same.

[Huskerguy]

I loaded some Berry's in 124 grain flat points. Use 4.0 grains of Titegroup and an OAL of 1.090. My CZ SP 01 Phantom eats them up. I also shoot some cast and now working on some Berry's DSRN loads.

Worked on some HS-6 loads with 115 grain Remington bullets at 1.125 shot in an SR9 with so-so results. I am not all that impressed with HS-6. It is fine but for consistent accuracy TG does it for me. The one thing I find with powders that have a high volume is the range to determine your sweet spot is much harder to find. It is a two edged sword - with TG you don't have much range from top to bottom.

[bkhann]

I use this bullet on a regular basis. Favorite load: 3.6 gr Titegroup @ 1.090" COL. This gives me 1047 FPS. Nice shooting, very accurate.

[tkglazie]

This is an old thread but I know I like to run a search by bullet/powder so maybe this will be of use to someone else.

I had been scratching my head a bit on how to load the Berry's 124grain HBFP with N320. Threads like this helped me out a lot. Here is a load that is working well for me in a P89:

124gr Berrys HBFP
3.9-4.0gr N320 (.49 Lee disk)
1.100"
FC brass (previously fired)
Federal primers
light-medium LEE FCD crimp (about a 1/2 turn)
no crimp while seating, just flatten out the bellmouth

Velocities at 3 paces were amazingly consistent at 990-1000. Recoil was light. The brass all landed in a circle about a foot in diameter 6' to my right. One side of the brass was sooty, which makes sense for a light load. I checked the barrel (disassembled) and could barely find an indication that the gun had been fired.

I have only been loading for a few months and its loads like this that make me understand just how addictive this hobby can be. My first shot over the chrono was a bullseye at 25'. Note: I do NOT shoot bullseyes. It took me a second to realize I hadnt missed the target entirely....

[TJA1987]

Where are you guys getting these pistols? I've been reloading for 30 years, but mostly .38 cal. and have just started loading 9mm. I see many threads talking about chambers not taking OAL of more than 1.100. I am using a S/W 5906, a Glock 17 and a Custom Springfield 1911 in 9mm. All of them will take at least 1.169 with no feeding problems at all. I am looking purely for accuracy. What is the best OAL for a plated 124 FP or 124 HP?

[DaleA]

Well, this thread is almost two years old and the original posters might not be around but you still might get some answers...