I need a more efficient way to relad 223

Mohave-Tec · March 2, 2014, 11:47 AM

I have chosen over the years to use a Lee Classic Turret Press and a Rock Chucker for the hands on experience they provide but I need a more efficient way to create 223/556. Cost aside, less building a 223 factory, what is the most efficient press and/or setup for building 223 range fodder? I am looking for advice on once fired prep processes and with equal weight, what press and its set up is the fastest or most efficient?
Thanks a bunch in advance.

oldpapps · March 2, 2014, 12:13 PM

I've had the same thoughts and worried with it for years and years. I've tried every thing I can think of including a progressive and end up going back to my old 'batch' processing method.
I am 'OCD' about trimming and haven't figured any way to process and include trimming every case on a progressive.

Here is what I do (for what it is worth):
Dump all brass in plastic cat litter bucket, till I get the urge to deal with it (rain, snow, cold or hot outside).
Check the web on each case and 'wet-pins' clean.
Full length size and de-prime. Clean again in SS pins with water and Dawn.
Trim them all an de-bur/chamfer.
Prime with my hand primer.
Sort by head type and bucket them up for loading.

With the above completed, I can select the head type I want and load as I desire. Including on my progressive (only skipping the sizing/de-priming/priming steps, kind of makes the progressive a waste).

Hope someone has a better idea that doesn't include big bucks.

Load with care and enjoy.

OSOK

Added, 'Demon case

'
I also process all of my .308/7.62 and 30-06 this same way. .40s, .45s all run the progressive route. .44s, 300 Blackouts and the comparatively few .375 H&H all get more personal care.

OSOK

Jimro · March 2, 2014, 12:18 PM

You can use a Lee Pro 1000 progressive to crank out range fodder. It isn't ideal, but you can do it. I've done it but I don't recommend it, as I took my press out of commission trying to swap shell plates, and I'm considering just converting it into a three station turret. I like to tinker, but at this point in my life time spent tinkering is time not spent shooting, playing with my kids, or any other number of things that are more important.

I will say that running once fired brass through the Lee 1000 was a very quick way to full length resize. The automatic feed mechanism made the initial resizing very quick. Much more tedious was the first trimming, but a Possum Hollow trimmer helped very much, and I used the steel wool mouth deburring method to speed up that step. That let me process 2,000 once fired brass relatively quickly.

Ideally something like a Dillon 550 or Hornady LnL progressive would be your first choice, simply because you'll end up tinkering less.

Jimro

j357 · March 2, 2014, 12:41 PM

A similar thread came up not long ago, here http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539918 . It doesnt completely answer your question, but does give more thoughts on processing in steps to break the work down into manageable chunks.

I'm with Oldpaps on this one, some type of batch work is necessary.

As noted in my response (#9 in the thread above). I will do all the initial case prep work I can ahead of time on several hundred cases after full length sizing. I buy cases cleaned, deprimed and swaged. I lube and size them, then I trim, debur and chamfer them on a drill press on day one. I prime them and set up components and tidy up my bench on day two. On day three I load them on a 4 hole LCT (skipping the deprime die with an extra stroke - hmmmm now Im wondering if this might be a good cause for a 3 hole set up???), wipe, and box them on day three.

Rinse and repeat as necessary.

Stavman11 · March 2, 2014, 02:33 PM

I answered this also on the Other Forum..

My Lee pro 1000 works great for me... and Unlike Some... never had any issues or need to Tinker with it much

Now that Said... i have 3 Lee Pro's 1 for .223 1 for 9mm 1 for 38s/.357... Only swapping I do is a Turret for .38s to a turret for .357....
So no plate changes for me.... My Time is more Valubale else where... and for about $180... The Lee Pro comes with all ya need for each Caliber... perfect for me

...........................

.223 for an AR was the 1st Round i started loading... That was about 2 years ago...
Boy have my Processes Changed

I started on a Lee Pro 1000....... and never really used it as a Progressive until i change my system about 3 Times...

Now I Deprime and Size all at Once... Fill the case Feeder Tubes with about 40-50 brass... and Bust em Out... takes about 5min from Load till done..... So ill do about 300-500 in a sitting...

Then Tumble Clean... then Trim, Chamfer de-Bur as Needed... all Checked in a drill and usualy 2 drills to Speed up the Processes...

My 2nd Biggest Change was Priming on a Lee hand Primer... This has sped up my process alot... with all the Military Brass and Such.. priming was always the Biggest issue if any was to occur... with a hand Primer I can feel each Primer and saves me a Lot of headache and Crushed Primers

Then I can load the Tubes.... and Powder drop and Load a Bullet all in progressive Mode.... I can load the tubes and Load 40-50 Rounds in about 15min or less at a nice leasurliy Pace....

By starting with .223 it made loading 9mm and .357 so much easier...

Clark · March 2, 2014, 03:40 PM

If I am going to reload 20 rounds or .223, I will do it in the reloading room.

But if I am going to reload 2,000 rounds of .223, I will do it while watching TV.

jepp2 · March 2, 2014, 03:43 PM

Quote:

I need a more efficient way to create 223/556. Cost aside, less building a 223 factory, what is the most efficient press and/or setup for building 223 range fodder?

I use a Rock Chucker and a Dillon RL 550. I find working in bulk helps a lot. I can lube and size 750 rounds per hour on my Rock Chucker. They go into a Lyman tumbler with fine walnut media and some mineral spirits to remove the lube.

If swaging is necessary I use an RCBS swager in the Rock Chucker. I use a Lyman motor driven trimmer but recently started using the Little Crow case trimmer. I hand prime off line. So I now have brass ready to load.

Using a ball powder on the Dillon makes fast work of charging and bullet seating.

lah2420 · March 2, 2014, 06:39 PM

I'm all for stages too. I'll tumble one day. Sizing, priming, and trimming comes another day. And then it's to the Classic turret for the rest another day. I don't have a bump fire, not even an AR. My mini 14 is good enough for me. If I shoot 100 at a setting with it, I am doing a lot. That said, if I was someone who liked the bump fire on an AR, I think I would convert to a .22 and play or just buy el cheapo ammo because you aren't going for accuracy there anyway.
But I do like those bump fire stocks. I got a lot of Hornady brass the other day watching some "kids" fire away with one. They said I could have all I wanted.

Ditto on the ball powder. Very consistent in my Lee Classic Turret.

jmorris · March 2, 2014, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Cost aside...what press and its set up is the fastest or most efficient?

This is a video of one of my 1050's loading .223.

chiefr · March 2, 2014, 09:10 PM

Dillon. Problem solved.

Mohave-Tec · March 2, 2014, 10:01 PM

What Dillon solves the prep work issue?

jmorris · March 2, 2014, 10:37 PM

Quote:

What Dillon solves the prep work issue?

The Dillon RT 1200 makes short work of trimming (1800 an hour+\-) and the 1050 swages pockets.

Clark · March 2, 2014, 11:22 PM

This is kind of a "calling J Morris" thread.
I am surprised he did it with off the shelf hardware.
Maybe the consulting gigs are paying too well.

Mohave-Tec · March 3, 2014, 12:31 AM

I like the idea of this Dillon Trimmer. Does it chamfer and deburr as well? I have a turret press but I was thinking I might mount it on my Rockchucker single stage, hand prime then put two powder through dies ( one opposite the other) and two seating dies on my Lee. If only I could find a means of priming on unit instead of off, on the RCBS or the Lee.

jmorris · March 3, 2014, 09:53 AM

No it doesn't, are you going to be using non jacketed projectiles? If so, you will need to add another step. Or at that point I would likely skip the Dillon and use the Giraud trimmer.

Single stage and "fastest or most efficient" are opposites of one another.

darkgael · March 3, 2014, 01:00 PM

Once-fired brass? I use a Dillon 550. I clean the cases (if they need cleaning) in walnut media. I lube them with a light coating of Lee Lube.
Then to the machine.
This is once fired brass....so no chamfering, no trimming -----the cases just do not need the work.
Pete

PS - Clark...I sent a PM about the Ad hominem tag line. A question.

Kimber84 · March 3, 2014, 01:08 PM

I have a Hornady LNL progressive, I can turn out around 450-500 per hour of .223. Works great.

TylerOutdoorsman · March 3, 2014, 02:30 PM

I was the OP of the thread mentioned by j357 above. I purchased a Lee Classic Turret press to fulfill my needs. The unfortunate part about loading .223 is it takes all of the case prep that the larger caliber rifles do, but we tend to fire many more rounds than we do out of a 30-06 or a 30-30. That's where you eat up your time is case prep.

I use the following steps for my case prep and loading of .223.

1. All my brass is range pickup, and it goes directly into the vibratory tumbler with Lymans Turbo Tuffnut Media for as long as it takes for them to have the right "shine"

2. Full length resize and deprime with a Lee Sizing/Depriming Die

3. All cases are trimmed with a Lyman E-ZEE trim with a cordless drill

4. All cases go to the Lyman Case Prep Xpress for chamfering/deburring, and primer pocket prep

All other loading steps are made on the Lee Classic Turret Press.

5. I prime with a Lee Safety prime in stage 1 with the no sizing die in the station as the cases have already been sized.

6. The next stroke of the press charges the case using a Lee Universal Charging Die and a Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure (you will need the Auto Disk Riser to clear the Safety Prime, as well as the Double Disk kit for the powder measure)

7. Then you seat the bullet

8. Then the last step is a run through the Lee Factory Crimp die

The Lee Classic Turret Press can be used in single stage or self indexing mode. I use self indexing as that's what I have my process set up for. It's probably not the fastest method, but the setup for the press only cost me about $250 with everything I needed and shipping from Midway.

Hope this helps.

totalloser · March 3, 2014, 04:21 PM

*When the press is dialed in*, tumbled brass goes in hopper, 1000 finished rounds roll out in an hour.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ss+progressive

Mohave-Tec · March 3, 2014, 09:55 PM

Tyler, that is how I've been reloading 223 for years except I don't crimp.

TylerOutdoorsman · March 4, 2014, 12:35 PM

Majave-Tech, this method was developed by a significant amount of helpful input from my OP about this subject. I can't thank the guys here on TFL enough for their help. I really took all of the guess work out of a new and a bit confusing setup for someone who mostly loads for handguns and rifles only in very small batches for hunting purposes.

March 2, 2014, 11:47 AM	#1
Mohave-Tec Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2013 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 118	I need a more efficient way to relad 223 I have chosen over the years to use a Lee Classic Turret Press and a Rock Chucker for the hands on experience they provide but I need a more efficient way to create 223/556. Cost aside, less building a 223 factory, what is the most efficient press and/or setup for building 223 range fodder? I am looking for advice on once fired prep processes and with equal weight, what press and its set up is the fastest or most efficient? Thanks a bunch in advance.

March 2, 2014, 12:13 PM	#2
oldpapps Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: Middle America Posts: 518	I've had the same thoughts and worried with it for years and years. I've tried every thing I can think of including a progressive and end up going back to my old 'batch' processing method. I am 'OCD' about trimming and haven't figured any way to process and include trimming every case on a progressive. Here is what I do (for what it is worth): Dump all brass in plastic cat litter bucket, till I get the urge to deal with it (rain, snow, cold or hot outside). Check the web on each case and 'wet-pins' clean. Full length size and de-prime. Clean again in SS pins with water and Dawn. Trim them all an de-bur/chamfer. Prime with my hand primer. Sort by head type and bucket them up for loading. With the above completed, I can select the head type I want and load as I desire. Including on my progressive (only skipping the sizing/de-priming/priming steps, kind of makes the progressive a waste). Hope someone has a better idea that doesn't include big bucks. Load with care and enjoy. OSOK Added, 'Demon case ' I also process all of my .308/7.62 and 30-06 this same way. .40s, .45s all run the progressive route. .44s, 300 Blackouts and the comparatively few .375 H&H all get more personal care. OSOK Last edited by oldpapps; March 2, 2014 at 12:20 PM.

March 3, 2014, 01:00 PM	#16
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	hmm. Once-fired brass? I use a Dillon 550. I clean the cases (if they need cleaning) in walnut media. I lube them with a light coating of Lee Lube. Then to the machine. This is once fired brass....so no chamfering, no trimming -----the cases just do not need the work. Pete PS - Clark...I sent a PM about the Ad hominem tag line. A question. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member Last edited by darkgael; March 3, 2014 at 01:16 PM.

March 3, 2014, 04:21 PM	#19
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	When the press is dialed in, tumbled brass goes in hopper, 1000 finished rounds roll out in an hour. http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ss+progressive __________________ You only truly believe in freedom if you believe in the freedom of those you disagree.

March 2, 2014, 12:18 PM	#3
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	You can use a Lee Pro 1000 progressive to crank out range fodder. It isn't ideal, but you can do it. I've done it but I don't recommend it, as I took my press out of commission trying to swap shell plates, and I'm considering just converting it into a three station turret. I like to tinker, but at this point in my life time spent tinkering is time not spent shooting, playing with my kids, or any other number of things that are more important. I will say that running once fired brass through the Lee 1000 was a very quick way to full length resize. The automatic feed mechanism made the initial resizing very quick. Much more tedious was the first trimming, but a Possum Hollow trimmer helped very much, and I used the steel wool mouth deburring method to speed up that step. That let me process 2,000 once fired brass relatively quickly. Ideally something like a Dillon 550 or Hornady LnL progressive would be your first choice, simply because you'll end up tinkering less. Jimro

March 2, 2014, 12:41 PM	#4
j357 Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Liberty Twp, OH Posts: 283	A similar thread came up not long ago, here http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=539918 . It doesnt completely answer your question, but does give more thoughts on processing in steps to break the work down into manageable chunks. I'm with Oldpaps on this one, some type of batch work is necessary. As noted in my response (#9 in the thread above). I will do all the initial case prep work I can ahead of time on several hundred cases after full length sizing. I buy cases cleaned, deprimed and swaged. I lube and size them, then I trim, debur and chamfer them on a drill press on day one. I prime them and set up components and tidy up my bench on day two. On day three I load them on a 4 hole LCT (skipping the deprime die with an extra stroke - hmmmm now Im wondering if this might be a good cause for a 3 hole set up???), wipe, and box them on day three. Rinse and repeat as necessary.

March 2, 2014, 02:33 PM	#5
Stavman11 Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Posts: 26	I answered this also on the Other Forum.. My Lee pro 1000 works great for me... and Unlike Some... never had any issues or need to Tinker with it much Now that Said... i have 3 Lee Pro's 1 for .223 1 for 9mm 1 for 38s/.357... Only swapping I do is a Turret for .38s to a turret for .357.... So no plate changes for me.... My Time is more Valubale else where... and for about $180... The Lee Pro comes with all ya need for each Caliber... perfect for me ........................... .223 for an AR was the 1st Round i started loading... That was about 2 years ago... Boy have my Processes Changed I started on a Lee Pro 1000....... and never really used it as a Progressive until i change my system about 3 Times... Now I Deprime and Size all at Once... Fill the case Feeder Tubes with about 40-50 brass... and Bust em Out... takes about 5min from Load till done..... So ill do about 300-500 in a sitting... Then Tumble Clean... then Trim, Chamfer de-Bur as Needed... all Checked in a drill and usualy 2 drills to Speed up the Processes... My 2nd Biggest Change was Priming on a Lee hand Primer... This has sped up my process alot... with all the Military Brass and Such.. priming was always the Biggest issue if any was to occur... with a hand Primer I can feel each Primer and saves me a Lot of headache and Crushed Primers Then I can load the Tubes.... and Powder drop and Load a Bullet all in progressive Mode.... I can load the tubes and Load 40-50 Rounds in about 15min or less at a nice leasurliy Pace.... By starting with .223 it made loading 9mm and .357 so much easier...

March 2, 2014, 03:40 PM	#6
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	If I am going to reload 20 rounds or .223, I will do it in the reloading room. But if I am going to reload 2,000 rounds of .223, I will do it while watching TV.

March 2, 2014, 06:39 PM	#8
lah2420 Member Join Date: August 2, 2009 Location: Arkansas Posts: 54	I'm all for stages too. I'll tumble one day. Sizing, priming, and trimming comes another day. And then it's to the Classic turret for the rest another day. I don't have a bump fire, not even an AR. My mini 14 is good enough for me. If I shoot 100 at a setting with it, I am doing a lot. That said, if I was someone who liked the bump fire on an AR, I think I would convert to a .22 and play or just buy el cheapo ammo because you aren't going for accuracy there anyway. But I do like those bump fire stocks. I got a lot of Hornady brass the other day watching some "kids" fire away with one. They said I could have all I wanted. Ditto on the ball powder. Very consistent in my Lee Classic Turret.

March 2, 2014, 09:10 PM	#10
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	Dillon. Problem solved.

March 2, 2014, 10:01 PM	#11
Mohave-Tec Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2013 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 118	What Dillon solves the prep work issue?

March 2, 2014, 11:22 PM	#13
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	This is kind of a "calling J Morris" thread. I am surprised he did it with off the shelf hardware. Maybe the consulting gigs are paying too well.

March 3, 2014, 12:31 AM	#14
Mohave-Tec Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2013 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 118	I like the idea of this Dillon Trimmer. Does it chamfer and deburr as well? I have a turret press but I was thinking I might mount it on my Rockchucker single stage, hand prime then put two powder through dies ( one opposite the other) and two seating dies on my Lee. If only I could find a means of priming on unit instead of off, on the RCBS or the Lee.

March 3, 2014, 09:53 AM	#15
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,078	No it doesn't, are you going to be using non jacketed projectiles? If so, you will need to add another step. Or at that point I would likely skip the Dillon and use the Giraud trimmer. Single stage and "fastest or most efficient" are opposites of one another.

March 3, 2014, 01:08 PM	#17
Kimber84 Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Location: US Posts: 455	I have a Hornady LNL progressive, I can turn out around 450-500 per hour of .223. Works great.

March 3, 2014, 02:30 PM	#18
TylerOutdoorsman Member Join Date: October 21, 2012 Location: Waxahachie, TX Posts: 49	I was the OP of the thread mentioned by j357 above. I purchased a Lee Classic Turret press to fulfill my needs. The unfortunate part about loading .223 is it takes all of the case prep that the larger caliber rifles do, but we tend to fire many more rounds than we do out of a 30-06 or a 30-30. That's where you eat up your time is case prep. I use the following steps for my case prep and loading of .223. 1. All my brass is range pickup, and it goes directly into the vibratory tumbler with Lymans Turbo Tuffnut Media for as long as it takes for them to have the right "shine" 2. Full length resize and deprime with a Lee Sizing/Depriming Die 3. All cases are trimmed with a Lyman E-ZEE trim with a cordless drill 4. All cases go to the Lyman Case Prep Xpress for chamfering/deburring, and primer pocket prep All other loading steps are made on the Lee Classic Turret Press. 5. I prime with a Lee Safety prime in stage 1 with the no sizing die in the station as the cases have already been sized. 6. The next stroke of the press charges the case using a Lee Universal Charging Die and a Lee Pro Auto Disk Powder Measure (you will need the Auto Disk Riser to clear the Safety Prime, as well as the Double Disk kit for the powder measure) 7. Then you seat the bullet 8. Then the last step is a run through the Lee Factory Crimp die The Lee Classic Turret Press can be used in single stage or self indexing mode. I use self indexing as that's what I have my process set up for. It's probably not the fastest method, but the setup for the press only cost me about $250 with everything I needed and shipping from Midway. Hope this helps.

March 3, 2014, 09:55 PM	#20
Mohave-Tec Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2013 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 118	Tyler, that is how I've been reloading 223 for years except I don't crimp.

March 4, 2014, 12:35 PM	#21
TylerOutdoorsman Member Join Date: October 21, 2012 Location: Waxahachie, TX Posts: 49	Majave-Tech, this method was developed by a significant amount of helpful input from my OP about this subject. I can't thank the guys here on TFL enough for their help. I really took all of the guess work out of a new and a bit confusing setup for someone who mostly loads for handguns and rifles only in very small batches for hunting purposes.