Any opinions on Ramshot Competition?

[MEATSAW]

Since I have grown fond of shooting light cast loads through my .45 I have deemed it necessary to change powders. I have been using Accurate #5 for my .45 and .40 pistol loads but using it for light cast loads in the 45 is not ideal.

In looking at it Ramshot Competition looks like a great powder, but there is not nearly as much people talking about it in my application as there is people mentioning Bullseye or Clays for example.

Do any of you have any experience with Competition? Likes/dislikes?

[Nick_C_S]

Wow, this is a post for 57K if there ever was one Hopefully, he'll chime in.

I've never loaded with any Ranshot powders. But I have no doubt that Competition is excellent powder; and further, excellent for your intended purpose. All Ramshot products are first-rate.

Overall, you are looking in the right direction because you do indeed need a faster powder. If you like AA5 (other than it's too slow for your application), have you considered AA2? It would suit your needs quite nicely. And I believe it's less expensive than Competition (generally, Ramshot powders are more expensive than Accurate Arms powders - they're both owned by Western Powders). I think AA2 would work really well for your application. And you are not going to find a powder that meters better. It's super-fine and thus, hoppers really nice and consistent. I loaded 60 rounds of 38 Special with it last night, and every test throw was right on the money - every single time. And that's the norm with AA2. I have come to expect nothing less.

I load W231 for my cast rounds with 45 ACP (I don't load 40 S&W at all). But if run out of W231 (and I just might), I wouldn't hesitate using AA2. I have a lot of AA2 (and AA5) and use it a lot - just not for 45ACP. And the only reason why I don't use it for 45 is because I have decades' old tried-n-true recipes using W231. So I reserve my 231 for 45ACP and use AA2 for most everything else.

[mnoirot64]

I've loaded Ramshot Competition for my 45 ACP needs recently. I do not have the load details with me, but I know it takes less powder than comparable loads using No 5. It burned clean on light loads and metered well. That said, it is definitely not my preferred powder for my requirements. From a velocity standpoint, it is weaker than my go to propellants: Power Pistol, Longshot and Unique.

[MEATSAW]

That actually sounds good to me: clean on light loads, meters well, and takes less powder!

I will look into AA #2 but it seems that Competition comes up available to buy much more frequently than #2. Also I have heard that it is a little faster than #5 but not by much. #5 is a fast, medium rate powder, and #2 is a slow, fast rate powder if that makes any sense. At least what I have heard.

If I ever see W231 or AA #2 I will try it. I have just seen the Competition come up in 4 pounders fairly regularly.

[mnoirot64]

Another option is IMR 800-X. I actually like it quite a bit. The drawback is that it's a flake powder so it won't easily meter through a case activated powder drop.

[mnoirot64]

Originally Posted by mnoirot64

Another option is IMR 800-X. I actually like it quite a bit. The drawback is that it's a flake powder so it won't easily meter through a case activated powder drop.

It's a slower powder than Competition or Nos. 2 and 5.

[Nick_C_S]

800X doesn't meter so well not because it's a flake powder per se` But because it's a large flake powder. A lot of flake powders meter just fine - the size of the flake is the issue.

Besides, 800X is way way way too slow for 115's in a Sig. It would probably work well for full-power 147s. But not 115's.

[mnoirot64]

Originally Posted by Nick_C_S

800X doesn't meter so well not because it's a flake powder per se` But because it's a large flake powder. A lot of flake powders meter just fine - the size of the flake is the issue.



Besides, 800X is way way way too slow for 115's in a Sig. It would probably work well for full-power 147s. But not 115's.

Right on the money, Nick.

[MEATSAW]

Just trying to figure out if someone had any experience good or bad with Competition. In the description it says it's a flattened spherical powder that is fluffy. Fluffy??

[Nick_C_S]

Yeah, now we really 57K in here.

By "fluffy," I believe they mean low-density. The density data is available on their site. I don't get too wrapped up in that stuff. Some powders are dense, some are not. AA2 is kinda "fluffy," just for the record.

I wish I could tell you more about Ramshot Competition - I know that's the purpose of your post.

I do know this: If you want to use it, and you are able to get some, you should proceed. I know you won't be disappointed. All Ramshot products are excellent and it's right in the speed range for you're application. The way I see it, you can't go wrong.

[Misssissippi Dave]

I can't help you on the powder you are asking about. WST (Winchester Super Target) might also fit the bill for what you want. It works good for soft shooting .45 loads with lead bullets. I use it with 185 grain JHP bullets and it is still soft shooting even at the minimum major power factor. It also burns faster than W231 and fills the case fairly well. With powders being hard to find right now it helps to have more than one to look for.

[MEATSAW]

Yea I know what you mean. Seems like rifle powders are much more available right now versus the pistol/shotshell powders.

What would be ideal is by a pound of several contenders like W231, WST, AA 2, Competition, IMR 700x, Zip, Clays, etc. But... Good luck with that right now!

I see the ramshot load guide also shows Competition can be loaded for the 40SW. Very interesting!

[mineralman55]

I'd wanted to try Competition, and was able to purchase 3 kegs of it with a neighbor. The short of it is, after finally getting around to loading it up, I can say I really like it in the 45ACP. It is incredibly soft shooting, on the order of Trail Boss. Interestingly, it has the same funky, cat-pee smell as TB but I digress. Accuracy was just great. 3.9 grains under a 235 LRN was very good, 4.1 under the same bullet was even better. Because it was so soft shooting control was great, and recovery for the next shot was quick. I shot it alongside the same rounds loaded under 7.1 grains of Silhouette (another favorite load of mine). Competition was definately easier on the shooter. It cleaned up well to boot!

I had contacted Ramshot to ask about it for low powered .357 and .44mag rounds. They said it was ideal for that as it was made for cowboy-style cartridges as well. I had some initial difficulties with loading Competition. It is extremely fine grained, seemed to be sort of "gummy" in my RCBS Uniflo, so I took the Uniflo apart, cleaned everything up with alcohol to ensure there was no residue, put it back together. I used slow, deliberate throws to charge the cases and everything worked just fine.

All in all, I cannot wait to load it into more calibers. Competition is a great powder.

[mnoirot64]

I ran it through my Beta Chrony to compare different powders, near max load, with the same bullets and primers (230 gr FMJ Berry's with Winchester LP primers). The Competition was well below below the speeds of other popular 45 choices such as Unique, Power Pistol and Longshot. Not surprisingly, it was very light with regards to recoil. I do not have the speeds with me, but I can post them later.

[Misssissippi Dave]

I for one would be interested in the velocities you measured with this powder. It is always good to know which powders might meet my needs. I have enough powder on hand now to keep me loading for a while. You never know when that might change.

[Gdawgs]

This is just a guess, but I believe that you don't hear many people using Ramshot because not many places carry it. They don't in my area anyway. I only know of one place that carries it, and they are 400 miles away from me. I'd use them more if I could get my hands on it. I have some True Blue, but that's the only one I've tried.

[mineralman55]

If you're looking for maximum velocity loads Competition isn't for you. Just graph up Competition's charge weight versus velocity alongside other powder choices and you'll see it is at the low end of the graph, alongside Bullseye and Trail Boss. You can get up around ~800 fps with 230 gr LRN, and ~900 fps with 200 gr LSWC. I found accuracy with it to be very good.

An added benefit is the cost effectiveness. I bought this for $116/8lb. At the light charge weights of ~4 grains, it is going to last a long time.

[Misssissippi Dave]

Any powder that will get me to 750 fps with a 230 FMJ bullet is worth looking into. I'm loading for USPSA and 750 fps will more than meet the power factor requirements. Thanks for the information.

[MEATSAW]

Excellent report mineralman. I can't wait for it to become available again, as I will be getting as much as I can.

[mineralman55]

Try plotting up published data on an Excel spreadsheet. This is especially useful for those of us without chronographs.

[mnoirot64]

Originally Posted by Mississippi Dave

I for one would be interested in the velocities you measured with this powder. It is always good to know which powders might meet my needs. I have enough powder on hand now to keep me loading for a while. You never know when that might change.

Here is some of the pertinent ballistics data I collected recently of 45 ACP. I shot these loads through a Beta Master Chrony using a 5" barrel 1911. All loads utilized Winchester large pistol primers. These are 10 shot groups.

Temperature = 52
Humidity = 59%
Wind = negligible

IMR 800-X (6.9 grains) - 230 gr FMJ Berry
High: 850
Low: 759.2
Avg: 804.7
SD: 29.17
ES: 90.8

Power Pistol (7.8 grains) - 230 gr FMJ Berry
High: 908.2
Low: 866.1
Avg: 883.6
SD: 14.52
ES: 42.11

Ramshot Competition (4.2 grains) - 230 FMJ Berry
High: 838.8
Low: 763.5
Avg: 788.5
SD: 22.27
ES: 75.29

Unique (6.6 grains) - 230 FMJ Berry
High: 988.9
Low: 892.8
Avg: 940.0
SD: 31.92
ES: 96.07

Accurate No.5 (7.8 grains) - 230 FMJ Berry
High: 898.5
Low: 851.3
Avg: 878.2
SD: 17.94
ES: 47.2

IMR SR7625 (5.8 grains) - 230 FMJ Berry
High: 840.2
Low: 768.4
Avg: 800.4
SD: 20.49
ES: 71.8

I hope you find this helpful.

[MGMorden]

I tried to work up a load with 9mm 147's and just couldn't do it. Was nearly half a grain over max and still wasn't enough to cycle the gun.

I have some coated 200gr .45 bullets coming in today that I'll be trying it again with. Ramshot's load data shows a load for cast lead that will work at the velocities I need so hopefully it will work. I have nothing else to use it for (I don't load shotgun) and in these times I can't let a whole jug of powder go to waste .

[mnoirot64]

Originally Posted by MGMorden

I tried to work up a load with 9mm 147's and just couldn't do it. Was nearly half a grain over max and still wasn't enough to cycle the gun.



I have some coated 200gr .45 bullets coming in today that I'll be trying it again with. Ramshot's load data shows a load for cast lead that will work at the velocities I need so hopefully it will work. I have nothing else to use it for (I don't load shotgun) and in these times I can't let a whole jug of powder go to waste .

You should be able to work up a decent load with Competition in 45.

[mineralman55]

From the Ramshot/Accurate manual. This should help your load development.

[MEATSAW]

I just ordered 4 pound of Competition (finally came available!). I will post my observations when I get my hands on it!