The Judge and other .410s stink, right? Ummmm...maybe not?

[Jim March]

A small "wild and crazy" ammo house by the name of Lehigh defense may have come up with something useful to do with the 2.75" chamber length Judge/Governor/etc.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bLonprIWm4

Granted, the penetration from the 2" barrel variants isn't that much at 9" or so but the energy transfer and expansion are just...woah!

Thoughts?

I am concerned that it may be "barrel length sensitive" and if you use a 4" or longer tube you may cause it to expand but then have the petals flatten back to some degree. I know Taurus has at least a 5" barrel "Judge family" critter, I'd like to see tests from that.

[Gdawgs]

That's impressive!

[lee n. field]

Interesting. I ain't buyin' a Judge for it, but interesting. More promising than that new jaggedy 9mm thing.

[Grizz12]

wow, thats pretty cool

[Jim March]

More promising than that new jaggedy 9mm thing.

Yeah...you caught the parody on that?

http://ftf-comics.com/?comic=the-d-o-s-bullet

[FloridaGuy]

I would like to try it out in the S&W Governor. I have the Governor and shoot it almost every weekend.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

interesting on necked gel... but add a layer of denim, or a leather jacket, a winter coat, & I bet the penetration would be marginal... still that is likely the most movement of the gel block I think I've seen from a handgun, so that might actually "knock you" back ala Hollywood style... or at least as much as could be possible

[ClydeFrog]

I saw Nyetski.

I read over a good article online about 3 months ago & watched a few web videos that made a compelling argument against buying or carrying a Judge/Gov type revolver for protection.
The .410 shell shot spreads out to far & can be a serious risk to by-standers.
These revolvers were hyped by some gun writers like Leroy Thompson as ideal for vehicle defense but they don't seem to be worth it.

[Micahweeks]

Holy... crap! That's a brutal looking round.

[Axelwik]

Just got a S&W Governor. Interesting, but think I'll stick with the standard 45 Colt loads for now.

I like the versatility of this gun... For woods/desert I can load it with two rounds of birdshot followed by four 45 Colt cast RNFP. In the city or car, six 45 Colt or 45 ACP hollow points and a moon clip of 45 ACP for a quick reload. For the house two 410 PDX1 followed by four 45 hollow points.

There are some naysayers, but I say the versatility of this gun outweighs the (very) small loss in accuracy. There's always a trade off with something that is a "jack of all trades," but for self defense in many situations it's a great tool.

[Snyper]

The Judge and other .410s stink, right? Ummmm...maybe not?

They are and always will be hybrid gimmicks that really aren't good for much at all.

The "energy transfer" is no more than any other cartridge that doesn't exit, and expansion without adequate penetration is worthless

[Nickel Plated]

That bullet loaded into a 450 Marlin would probably be awesome at shooting....something. I'm not really a hunter sorry.

[Cosmodragoon]

This is fantastic, mostly due to the potential tissue damage from them fanning out. Still, it doesn't quite make full use of that cylinder. It had me wondering about .454 variants, the regular of which is far more devastating than the bullets in question. In fact, he mentioned that just as I was thinking of it. Here is the link to his .454 for quick comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czsd-...2wayqvCf2QDFPJ

[Pond, James Pond]

That gel block was almost airborne. It appeared to levitate whilst doing a sort of rumba!!

[Cheapshooter]

The Judge and other .410s stink, right? Ummmm...maybe not?

Definitely not!
But not necessarily due to this ammo. My PD Poly is accurate with 45 Colt loads, and the pattern at 7 yards or so with Federal Premium Handgun Personal Defense OOO Buck puts four 35 (9MM/380) diameter projectiles into a four inch group all at the same time @ 1200fps. Ballistic gel tests have shown 10+ inches of penetration.
Add to that the virsatility of a tight enough pattern @ 10' to end the threat of any slithery creature.
While not for everyone, it is far more than a useless gimmick.

[DannyB1954]

If it didn't kill you, the surgery to remove it might.
It would be interesting to also make those in 38 Spl +p to be shot out of a .357 Magnum. (longer cylinder length would be necessary for the longer bullet).

[Cheapshooter]

It would be interesting to also make those in 38 Spl +p to be shot out of a .357 Magnum. (longer cylinder length would be necessary for the longer bullet

They do make a 38 Spcl, for 38 Spcl chambers.
http://www.lehighdefense.com/index.p...on-ammo-detail

As well as other Maximum Expansion rounds in other calibers.
http://www.lehighdefense.com/index.p...imum-expansion

[jason_iowa]

I have a public defender which is the poly version. The thing is awesome. The poly really tames the recoil. even with a 2in barrel the 45lc is surprisingly accurate. The 410 rounds made for the judge are devastating on dead pigs.

[XDforever]

Those LeHigh bullets have awesome expansion, but $3.00 + a round means that I would not be practicing with 'em at all. They would probably mildew and die of old age before they got shot.

ha

Joe

[Jim March]

<scratches head>

You know...Maurice has 357-magnum-length chambers cut to 9mmPara. I could run bullets this long too. Meh. Naa, problem is if I got that much expansion out of 'em even 9mm+P wouldn't have enough heat on 'em to punch 'em deep enough.

[Real Gun]

They are and always will be hybrid gimmicks that really aren't good for much at all.

Somebody didn't get the memo, because these guns have made .410 and .45 Colt ammo, brass, and bullets rather challenging to buy. I enjoy my 3" SS Judge and am keeping it, thank you.

I wonder if the dissing often comes from those who have never tried one of these guns.

Stories of shotshell pattern expansion and the hazards to bystanders are exaggerated. If a bystander is close enough for pie plate sized spread, one should not have taken the shot with any caliber.

[Cheapshooter]

I wonder if the dissing often comes from those who have never tried one of these guns.

That, along with being made by Taurus.
Had the Governer been introduced first, It would have been heralded by many of the same as one of the greatest, most inovative gun designs of the century.
Of course, they will deny It now.

[SHR970]

The "energy transfer" is no more than any other cartridge that doesn't exit, and expansion without adequate penetration is worthless

Another victim of the FBI protocol FlavorAid!

Energy transfer is part of the equation, bleed out is another. This slug will substantially increase the likely hood of quicker bleed out. It would seriously shred someones internals with that 4 bladed buzz saw going thorugh.

but add a layer of denim, or a leather jacket, a winter coat, & I bet the penetration would be marginal

Usually penetration goes up and expansion goes down. In this case I doubt it would make much of a difference due to the cavernous depth of the cavity. I would really like to see the test though.

[Cheapshooter]

One thing I noticed in the video, and would like to see added. The test was done with bare ballistic gel. I wonder what effect a few layers of denim like in most other tests would have?

[Hal]

I wonder if the dissing often comes from those who have never tried one of these guns

Nah - a lot of us were soured on the Thunder Five...

That thing proved about as useless in the real world as the Stevens 35......

Which, BTW I once shot!
Wicked recoil and muzzle climb due to the light weight.

It was a novelty more than anything else.