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Old January 8, 2014, 02:19 AM   #1
Gaz_in_NZ
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Seating Depth for plated bullets .38/.357

Hi,
What would be the seating depth for these projectiles, target loads in .38Spec and .357Mag?
They are a hardened lead core then copper plated.
(haven't decided on powder load as yet 'cause I can't find these type of bullets in the ADI reloading manual)


Made in SA by "Frontier" (found a local supplier)... http://www.frontierbullets.co.za/product/cmj-bullets/

Powder....... AP70N
Primer......... Federal SP.
Brass.......... Starline in both 38 and 357
Weight......... 158gr
Diameter....... 0.3575"
Overall Length.. 0.6640"
From base to start of taper... 0.4500"
Depth of dish in bottom 0.0165" to 0.0110"
Lee Pro-1000 press
Will be shot through various, 586, 686 GP100 all in 6" And M92 16" Rossi and Uberti.

If you need any other info please ask.

Thanks in advance
Gaz
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Old January 8, 2014, 03:46 AM   #2
Hammerhead
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AP70N? Is that Universal?

My pet load:
Rainier 158 plated FP. (.630" length)
1.585" OAL
6.5 grains SR-4756
Magnum primer.

I rarely use .38 brass, so I can't help there.

With plated bullets in the .357 I start with JHP data and work up.
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Old January 8, 2014, 03:51 AM   #3
Hammerhead
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BTW, since you're down there, what's the story with Universal/AP70N and Clays/AS30N?
Was there a fire at the plant?
Are those powders readily available down there?
Is it warm there?
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Old January 8, 2014, 05:39 AM   #4
Gaz_in_NZ
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ADI AP70N is equivalent to Universal, Unique, SR 7625 and N330.
SR 4756 is equivalent to ADI AP100.

The story I heard was that ADI had a fire and then the next 2 batches of AP70N that they made was out of specification.

Powder of all types is basically unavailable in NZ at present and everything is on back order especially stuff from the USA.

Yes, it's middle of summer here at present and normally very hot but we have quite bad thunder storms at present with the warning of tornadoes which we do get quite a few of each year.

Cheers
Gaz.

Last edited by Gaz_in_NZ; January 8, 2014 at 05:44 AM.
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Old January 8, 2014, 06:36 AM   #5
Jim243
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Set them to standard 158 grain bullet OAL. You need to insure they do not stick out beyond the cylinder and bind your revolver.

Jim

I would be happy to trade your weather for mine.

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Old January 8, 2014, 09:14 AM   #6
fatman73
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I measured a finished round of mine also using a 158 grain bullet. And it was 156.5 inch with a rnfp profile bullet. I always seat to the cannelure and crimp. I've never used plated bullets
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Old January 8, 2014, 10:27 AM   #7
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I reload a lot of plated bullets in 327 Fed. Mag. and I thought they were backing out of the case during recoil. I started making cannelures on the plated bullets to match listed overall cartridge length. First tool was a well used and older "CH Cannelure Tool" but was so sloppy from wear it took a lot of effort to keep the cannelure anywhere close to precise. So I went new, either would have served me well but, I ended up with a cannelure tool from "Corbin". Similar in that you turn a crank with one hand and exert pressure with the other. Somewhat labor intensive if you shoot a lot of them. (Price of mechanization jumps pretty high though, making my labor seem cheap).
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Old January 8, 2014, 10:55 AM   #8
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I only use plated in .38spl, but I load them to jacketed OAL listed in my reloading books. Currently using Rainier RNFP's. They don't have a canelure to crimp on, just use a slight roll crimp where it doesn't slice through the plating but still has enough tension to where I don't have any problems with them pulling out of the case with recoil. Granted its a barely mid-level load using 6.6gr of AA#5.

I use only jacketed bullets for my .357 loads.
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Old January 8, 2014, 11:33 AM   #9
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I use Berry's plated 158's. They look very similar. Their overall length is .647. And I set the round's OAL to 1.558 for 357 Mag. If you do the same, you'll have .017 more internal case volume (assuming all calculations are correct.

I use mine for 357 Mag only (I just use lead for 38's). The load I've been using is 7.0g of Unique. Although I haven't chronoed them, they seem a little soft and I intend to move up to 7.2, at least.
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Old January 8, 2014, 04:22 PM   #10
Gaz_in_NZ
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Thanks guys, really appreciate the replies.

Possible dumb question but is there an easy way to tell if your Crimp is correct, i.e. not too tight and not too slack, at the loading stage of things?

Cheers
Gaz
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Old January 8, 2014, 04:40 PM   #11
WESHOOT2
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adjust and test

I use and most highly recommend crimping revolver cartridges using the superior Redding Profile Crimp die. It allows and starts with a gentle and symmetrical taper, and can adjust to apply any measure of 'roll'.

I use(d) them in numerous chamberings and varied bullets to include plated (38 Special, 357 Magnum, 41 Magnum, 44 Special and Magnum, 45 Colt).
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Old January 8, 2014, 04:46 PM   #12
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Dang JIM243, looks to bad for me. You may have to shoot out a window in that kind of weather . lol
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Old January 8, 2014, 08:56 PM   #13
fatman73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WESHOOT2 View Post
I use and most highly recommend crimping revolver cartridges using the superior Redding Profile Crimp die. It allows and starts with a gentle and symmetrical taper, and can adjust to apply any measure of 'roll'.



I use(d) them in numerous chamberings and varied bullets to include plated (38 Special, 357 Magnum, 41 Magnum, 44 Special and Magnum, 45 Colt).

I have this die and have a hard time adjusting it to get the desired results. Just dug it out the other day and started messing with it again. The paper that came with it got lost in the shuffle any tips to share I can't get a roll crimp for nothin.
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Old January 8, 2014, 10:19 PM   #14
Nick_C_S
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Taper Crimp for Plated

Quote:
Is there an easy way to tell if your Crimp is correct?
This is where this thread really opens up.

The short answer is: Well, not really. And with a plated non-cannelure bullet, the waters of this subject get really muddy. Ideally, you have a taper-crimp die. But most likely you have a roll-crimp die. If so, crimp just enough to take the flair out of the case mouth. You don't want the brass digging into the plating and damaging it. A roll-crimp die turns in the case mouth, into the bullet. A taper-crimp doesn't. Either way, it's a "feel thing," and just takes some experience to crimp correctly and consistently. When in doubt, less is better.

If you load a lot of plated bullets and/or wadcutters, I recommend getting a taper-crimp die. For us 38 revolver shooters/loaders, I think it's a must-have. Mine is an RCBS. I know that many swear by the Redding Profile Crimp die, but I have no experience with it. I can only speak for the RCBS and it works great.
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Old January 8, 2014, 11:26 PM   #15
Gaz_in_NZ
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My crimp die is a Lee that came with the press (new this Christmas) so I'm not sure what type it is. It is stamped "...Lee-38spc-13..."

Also, how critical is the overall length of a reload compared to the book value?
My wadcutters measure up at 1.1850" as opposed to 1.1600" (15 thou longer), is this within acceptable limits? Haven't had a chance to shoot any of these as yet.

Cheers
Gaz
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Old January 8, 2014, 11:42 PM   #16
Nick_C_S
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Quote:
My crimp die is a Lee that came with the press (new this Christmas) so I'm not sure what type it is. It is stamped "...Lee-38spc-13..."
I don't have Lee dies, so I don't know what that nomenclature means; but I'd bet a small lunch at a drive-up window that it's a roll-crimp die. If you walked into a sporting goods store and said "hand me a die set for 38 Special please" (we're pretending here that everything is in stock lol); they will hand you a set with a roll-crimp die - they won't even ask which one you wanted. Roll-crimp is the "default" for 38/357.

Quote:
My wadcutters measure up at 1.1850" as opposed to 1.1600"
As long as they end up shooting nice, don't worry about it. There's certainly no safety issue that I can figure. A lot of loaders don't seat their wadcutters completely flush.

(I actually load a Double-Ended Wadcutter {DEWC}. So when I say I load a "wadcutter," I actually mean a DEWC. They're a little different than true wadcutters, and don't seat flush. I think the OAL on mine are 1.240, if memory serves.)
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Old January 8, 2014, 11:47 PM   #17
Gaz_in_NZ
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My Hornady 148HBWC are sticking out of the case around 35 to 40 thou which is the way I used to do 'em in the UK years ago, never been a fan of "total immersion" in the case for the projectile with a crimp right over the end.

Does anyone make/sell washers (spacers) for under the dies to lift them higher to allow for use of .357 brass without altering and resetting up of the dies... i.e. something 0.135" thick?

Cheers
Gaz

Last edited by Gaz_in_NZ; January 8, 2014 at 11:53 PM.
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Old January 8, 2014, 11:57 PM   #18
Nick_C_S
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Quote:
Does anyone make/sell washers (spacers) for under the dies to lift them higher to allow for use of .357 brass without altering and resetting up of the dies... i.e. something 0.135" thick?
RCBS does. They come with every 38/357 die set. I have a few of them. Quite a handy item, and I believe they sell them separately. Go to their website contact them. Great folks.
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Old January 9, 2014, 12:08 AM   #19
Gaz_in_NZ
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Cheers for that, just on my way to check their site as we speak.

Cheers
Gaz
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Old January 9, 2014, 12:46 AM   #20
Gaz_in_NZ
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Couldn't find them for sale on RCBS website.
FleaBay didn't have any.
Looks like you only get 1 spacer with each set of dies, so only useful in a single stage press and not a progressive where you would need 3.

Cheers
Gaz
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Old January 9, 2014, 01:20 AM   #21
Nick_C_S
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Yeah, they're not on their site. Contact them. Shoot 'em an e-mail.
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Old January 9, 2014, 01:25 AM   #22
Gaz_in_NZ
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OK, will do.

Cheers
Gaz
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Old January 9, 2014, 12:08 PM   #23
Gaz_in_NZ
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Probably be easier to locate a local engineering company and get them to machine me 3 spacers of the correct thickness.

Cheers all
Gaz
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Old January 9, 2014, 03:37 PM   #24
WESHOOT2
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mebbe; ain't got one in hand

Crank the DIE BODY down for more taper; crank the TOP down for more roll.
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Old January 11, 2014, 11:11 AM   #25
Real Gun
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Quote:
I have this die and have a hard time adjusting it to get the desired results. Just dug it out the other day and started messing with it again. The paper that came with it got lost in the shuffle any tips to share I can't get a roll crimp for nothin.
Only gives a roll over a crimp groove. Is that what you have?
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