Pistol powder in a .308

[WWWJD]

In one of the latest editions of American Rifleman, they have a one pager about using 8gr of Clays behind a 168gr bullet for 1000fps and about 900 ft.lbs of energy. Feels like a waste of materials to me, but has anyone here ever played around with reduced pistol powder rifle loads? Might be fun.

I wonder how many squibs one winds up with before finding a winning(?) combination?

[Marco Califo]

I really don-t see the point. If 308 is too much, 223 is half the cost. But if you must, here is a photo of your future.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...3&d=1368504906

[Sport45]

I haven't tried it with jacketed bullets, but pistol size charges of Titegroup under cast bullets let my children (when they were much younger) enjoy shooting my T99 Arisaka and .375Win '94 among some other guns that would have been punishing otherwise. Accuracy at 50 yards wasn't bad either as I remember.

If X grains of Titegroup isn't going to blow up a 1911 loaded under a 230gr bullet, it won't blow up a modern rifle when loaded under a lighter bullet. That's my opinion and I'll stick to it.

A popular pistol powder with published instructions for use in rifle is Trail Boss. And if you check Hodgdon's website you'll find Titegroup, Clays, and Trail Boss loads for .223Rem, .308Win and others. So don't be led into thinking that using pistol powders for reduced rifle loads is a recipe for disaster. Just follow the guidelines and think about what you're doing.

[Salmoneye]

Though I have not done it in a .308, I have done reduced loads in .30-30, .35 Remington, and .30-06 using Red Dot...

You might find this interesting...It is a reprint of the old C E Harris article titled "The Load":

http://members.shaw.ca/cronhelm/TheLoad.html

This link is where I acquired the data for loading Red Dot in my lever actions:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

As for:

But if you must, here is a photo of your future.

I highly doubt that picture has anything whatsoever to do with low doses of fast powder...

[Jimro]

Those subsonic loads are for use with silenced bolt action rifles. They can be deadly accurate and scary quiet.

Although the rise of the popularity of the 300 Whisper, 300-221, 300 Blackout, make the need for a subsonic load in a normal sniper rifle something even less frequent than it used to be.

Jimro

[wogpotter]

I used a .32" round ball with 15 Gr of Unique as a low power (& very quiet) pest control load in a .303 British. Hell on wheels for barn rats.

[hodaka]

I started shooting 7.5 Swiss in a 1889 Schmidt-Rubin before the internet and before I knew what I had. My choice for powder was Unique. Worked great although the first few rounds were fired with a lanyard.

[Paul B.]

"I really don-t see the point. If 308 is too much, 223 is half the cost. But if you must, here is a photo of your future."

The point is a low cost loadof mild recoil and quieter muzzle blast. Depending on the level of powder the lightest are called gallery loads. Some that work very well are 5.0 gr. of Unique and 100 to 120 g. cast bullets. Cheap practice and they make nice small game loads. I shooty that load in the 30-30,.308 Win. and 30-06.
Probably my favorite .308 load uses IMR or H 4895 and the Lyman #311291 bullet sized .310". fro a Winchester M70 in .308 Win., that load will do 1.5 MOA at 200 yards if it's not too windy. I did shoot a couple of 2.5 MOA groups at 300 yards but that's stretching that load a tad.
What better way to completely familiarize yourself with a hunting rifle that shoot those light loads into decent groups. Alliant 2400 is another decent pistol powder for use in those light loads. personally, I prefer cst bullets with those powders but I see no rerason why someone wouldn't do the same with a jacketed bullet. Just cost a bit more to shoot, that's all. Just be careful.
Paul B.

[Ozzieman]

The point is a low cost loadof mild recoil and quieter muzzle blast.
I will add one more thing to that, fun.
I have been working up a load using lead bullets and gas checks for an Ishapore 308 for the wife. I used several different pistol powders from the Lyman cast manual and got some real nice groups. Made the 308 feel like shooting a 223. I don’t do this with jacketed.
I don’t like reduce loads with rifle powders since many need some kind of filler. I have very little experience with these reduced loads and I have stayed away from them.
The best pistol load so far is using a Missouri cast 172 GR and I forget the Lyman mold number. Using Red Dot of 13 gr which was a mid load and 1600 FPS was accurate enough for her. 2 inches at 50 yards. 172 GR at 1600 is no slouch.
I wonder how many squibs one winds up with before finding a winning(?) combination?
If loaded correctly you can expect just as many squib loads as you get from your normal loading. This is not something I would do without some data to back me up on loads. There are a lot of “pet” loads out there listed for reduced rifle loads and I for one don’t trust a lot of other people’s back yard experiments.
That’s why I go back to the Lyman cast manual.
http://www.missouribullet.com/results.php?category=6
But if you must, here is a photo of your future.
If you’re going to post blown up guns like that you should put some history with that. I’ve had a gun blow up next to me and was hit by the parts. And it was loaded with pistol powder. But the load was the same amount in weight as the rifle powder he thought he was using.
Loading rifle rounds with pistol powder is just as if not more safe than normal loading since the pressure is in most cases less than 2/3’s. Again you must use documented trusted data.
P.S. you can tell from the primers that there is not an excess pressure but the case was clean which means the case sealed in the chamber.

[WWWJD]

Huh. I guess I thought it was more of an oddity than it really is. I never noticed the 10gr Trail Boss load on Hodgdon's load data page for the .308. I just may have to try that someday.

Thanks y'all,

[Jim243]

I don't see why you call it "pistol powder"? I consider most flake "Shotgun Powder" and yes it can be used in Pistol, Shotgun (which it is designed for) and sometimes in rifles.

Strange, never considered it pistol powder expect for SSA.

Jim

[Marco Califo]

The blown up gun picture was from a thread where some guy used faster powders to find a failure point. Someone else posted about a similar tests, and multiple separate powders until with Bullseye that eventually did the same catastrophic disassembly in a controlled test. My point is pistol powders in rifle case can go BOOM. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[Old Stony]

Using fast burning powders like Unique can be fun in rifle calibers. Lyman lists a number of them for cast bullets, but I would be reluctant to use jacketed with their info. 11 gr. in a 45/70 with a 405 gr. cast bullet is a lot of fun out of some rifles. I shoot it often in my original Trapdoor carbine. 11 gr. with a 150 cast in 30/06, or 8 gr. in a 30/30 with a 150 cast..all fun stuff with very little blast and recoil.

[Dave P]

10 gr of Unique with something like a 168 bullet is a common light weight load. Not subsonic, but it is getting there.

I did some 308 loads with a pinch of w231 this week. Definitely slow, but no accuracy so far.

why do we shoot these? For a quiet shot in your suppressed 308.

[Sport45]

The blown up gun picture was from a thread where some guy used faster powders to find a failure point.

Well yes, if you keep stuffing more in until it fails you will get results like in your picture. You can do the same thing with many rifle powders.

[WWWJD]

JIM243: I don't see why you call it "pistol powder"?

Um. I don't know. lol. I've only reloaded for two rifles so far. Just call it what it is; I'm a noob.

[A pause for the COZ]

I have a Savage Model 10 in 308 that has never seen a jacketed load.
155 gr gc'd cast ahead of:

12gr Red Dot
16gr 2400
9gr Unique
10gr Herco

[joneb]

I have had very good results in 308 Win. using Nosler 125gr (factory 2nds) standard primer and 16gr of Blue Dot, this load shoots under 1" groups @ 100 yards through my Howa 1500. This load is pretty clean and heats the barrel very little, this is my rockchuck load.
The brass from this load is neck sized for standard 308 loads.

[Mike Irwin]

I've done it many times over the years.

One of my favorite loads was Red Dot (I THINK 11 grains, but don't remember for sure) in a .300 Savage case behind a 115-gr. lead bullet.

At ranges out to 50 yards it would hold well under an inch, often under a half inch, groups.

I decapitated many squirrel with that load.