Sig Sauer P226 COMBAT -- FANTASTIC!!!!

[FMJ1911]

Finally got my new Sig Sauer P226 COMBAT variant out to my gun club and gave it it's first shake down cruise, and it performed flawlessly. Unlike the P226 I bought my son a couple of years ago this one did NOT come with the cheap/crappy Checkmate mags, but real-deal "Made in Italy" MecGar magazines. Sweet.

Here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd9DwcSl04o

Designed to meet, and exceed, rigorous military standards, the P226® Combat performs like no other 9mm available. Each pistol features the military's Flat Dark Earth finish on its alloy frame and SIG's Nitron® finish over a stainless slide. Internal parts and controls are phosphated for extreme corrosion resistance and reduced friction while the barrel is hard chromed and finished in Nitron® which easily passes the military's accuracy requirements. The P226 Combat also passes the military's 240-hour salt spray corrosion test. Additional features include a M1913 Picatinny rail, vertical front strap serrations and SIGLITE® night sights.

For more information, including detailed specifications, etc. go to:
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductD ... ombat.aspx

Item Number E26R-9-CBT

Caliber: 9mm
Action Type: DA/SA
Trigger Pull DA: 10.0 lbs
Trigger Pull SA: 4.4 lbs
Overall Length : 7.70 in
Overall Height: 5.5 in
Overall Width: 1.5 in
Barrel Length: 4.4 in
Sight Radius: 6.3 in
Weight w/Mag: 34.0 oz
Mag Capacity 10 or 15 Rounds
Sights SIGLITE® Night Sights
Grips Flat Dark Earth Polymer Factory
Frame Finish Flat Dark Earth
Slide Finish Nitron®
Accessory Rail Yes
Features Accessory Rail
MSRP $1,218.00
CA Compliant No
MA Compliant No[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]

[RC20]

I don't do U tube videos so what is meant by flawlessly?

It fired each time or it was accurate and what ammo did it shoot best with, what ranges, group size etc?

From my point, the reason I am on the group is to get test reports from people and their experience with the guns that might be of interest to me.

Picture of a good group is good. In depth details is what I want, not pictures.

[FMJ1911]

Flawless:

Fit and finish.
Color.
Magazine function.
Ammo feeding.
Extraction.
Ejection.
Chambering.
Firing.

Wish I could report the shooter's aim was flawless.

Watch the video for further details.

[FoghornLeghorn]

Your son's 226 came with Checkmate mags? And you consider them crappy?

I've only read good things about Checkmate. I don't own any, but I am in the market for a 226. It looks like it'll be a 226B. A basic model except for night sights. The LGS is asking $829, before tax.

So, what don't you like about Checkmate, and, is their logo stamped on the mag?

[FMJ1911]

Yes, Checkmate mags are crap. If you do some googling around you'll find lots of reports of problems with Checkmate mags, and numerous reports of problems using them with SIGS.

MecGars made in Italy are the only way to go.

What don't I like about Checkmates?

They gave us no end of problems, that's what.

Swim at your own risk. If I were you, and if you do get a P226, pick up some MecGar 20 rounders.

[TunnelRat]

Weird. The Checkmate mags I have had for 1911s were flawless. Never owned the ones they made for SIGs.

[WVsig]

The Checkmate mags for the P226 have had issues. Checkmate mags in general are pretty good. I personally like their 1911 mags.

I am not 100% convinced that it is checkmates fault that the P226 mags are crappy. I believe they won the contract on price and that today's Sig is more worried about the bottom line then the quality and performance of the product. Low price creates compromises. This is why they no longer use Mecgar because of the cost.

I have always used Mecgars in my Sigs and will continue to use them but if I bought a new Sig I would not go out of my way to avoid the checkmate mags if the gun was what I wanted and was properly priced.

If you need replacement Mecgars Greg Cote is the place to go.

http://www.gregcotellc.com/cart/inde...itv99h3gfv8q67

[FMJ1911]

I'll never use Checkmate products, period.

They were consistently crap in my Sig Sauer P226 and a lot of other people have had similar experiences.

Thankfully, Sig did not stick the junky mags in with my Sig Sauer P226 Combat. Maybe they stopped supplying them with any of their pistols.

Read through the results of this search:

https://www.google.com/search?q=prob...ient=firefox-a

[WVsig]

Their Sig had initial teething issues but they are a major player in the OEM market. If you do your research you will find that they make a lot of very good quality mags for lots of guns.

All poodles are dogs not all dogs are poodles....

Simply because the initial release of a OEM product spec'd to Sig request was not 100% perfect does not mean all Checkmates are crap... YMMV

[FMJ1911]

I've done my research and that's why I won't buy or use crappy Checkmate mags again.

A quick comparison of Checkmate to MecGar is like comparing a Yugo to a Ferarri.

But, hey you pays your money and you takes your chances.

Good luck.

[TunnelRat]

In watching the video you mention the FDE finish in reference to the SIG military trials. If I'm not mistaken, those military trials took place long before the FDE finish came about. That's more to appeal to the current market.

Also you mention the military going with the Beretta M9 solely due to cost. Again, if I'm not mistake didn't the P226 fail one of the stages that the M9 passed? Don't get me wrong, if I had to choose between the two I choose the P226, but there seem to be conflicting reports as to the final decision.

[TunnelRat]

A quick comparison of Checkmate to MecGar is like comparing a Yugo to a Ferarri.

So Checkmate is dumpy and boxy but will survive the nuclear holocaust and the MecGar is high performing but breaks down frequently and is very expensive to repair? Using Ferrari in a reliability metaphor is a weird choice.

[WVsig]

I've done my research and that's why I won't buy or use crappy Checkmate mags again.

A quick comparison of Checkmate to MecGar is like comparing a Yugo to a Ferarri.

But, hey you pays your money and you takes your chances.

Good luck.

Your logic is flawed but clearly there is no changing your mind. You had issues with Checkmates in your sons P226. There have been many confirmed reports that the initial mags had problems. From what I have read recently those issues have been addressed. Using your logic all Sigs are crappy because my Gen 1 P250 and my Gen 1 GSR both had to go back to the factory....

Regardless the fact that Checkmate made some bad P226 mags does not mean Checkmates are Yugos... and are all crap. Simple logic... All poodles are dogs not all dogs are poodles.

If given the choice I would buy Mecgars over checkmates for Sig pistols but that does not mean Checkmates are crap. Also your universal statement that all Checkmate mags are crappy is simply not true. Their 1911 mags are far superior to the 1911 mags made by Mecgar. You reference the 1911 several times in your video I would think as a 1911 shooter you would be aware of the quality of Checkmates 1911 mags.

But oh well....

[FMJ1911]

Rat, basically everything you said is wrong, but on the military trials...

Here is what is in the report on the trials:

1) The Sig scored slightly higher than the Beretta.

2) Beretta dropped it's price 18% at the last minute, presumably because it may have obtained leaked price info from the Sig bid. Originally the total cost for the Beretta contract was $84 Million, and the Sig bid was $75 Million.

3) Only the Sig and Beretta passed the technical and reliability standards. The HK P7M13, S&W 459M, Walther P88, Colt SSP, FN-Herstal BDA, and Steyr GB all failed or were withdrawn voluntarily.

4) The Sig pistol was cheaper even after the 18% price drop. The difference in cost on the final contract was only $3 Million, all in the cost of magazines and spare parts.

5) The choice to adopt 9mm was solely on the basis of NATO and domestic caliber standardization. Congress denied funding for a continuation of the M1911A1 and any .45 ACP related programs to force the JSO to make this decision.

6) Testing consisted of a field trial of 275,000 rounds done to test the performance of 30 guns (sometimes as few as 2 of each make) in dust, mud, sand, and salt water. Further testing included temperature variables (hot / cold) and testing by personnel of differing size, gender, and experience.

7) The Army stated quite clearly that .38 caliber revolvers; "have inadequate overall effectiveness; poor maintainability and life expectancy in combat conditions, low-lethality, poor reliability, lack of rapid reloading ability, and small ammunition capacity."

8) HK's P7M13 lowest score on the conditional reliability testing was 99%. It blew the doors off of the Sig P226 and Beretta 92. It scored a 100% on the dust test.

9) The Sig suffered in the dry mud environment, but scored more than 50% higher on the standard reliability testing than the Beretta. The Sig P226 scored a 2,877 to the Beretta's 1,750 to the Colt M1911A1s 162. The numbers reflect the average number of rounds fired between stoppages.

10) Two of the five pistols submitted in 1981 for reliability testing by Beretta accounted for two-thirds of the malfunctions.

11) Reliability between each lot of guns and the individual guns in the lot varied on a factor of 300 - 1400%; that's just comparing Sig to Sig, Beretta to Beretta.

12) The Sig P226 originally in 1981 had a significant issue with the shape of it's firing pin causing a large number of failures to fire. It was reshaped (sharpened) for the 1984 trial and eliminated the issue.

13) You can fire approximately 6,253 rounds through a Sig P226 before the frame cracks with no maintenance. In comparison, the M1911A1 control frame failed at around 3,500 rounds.

14) Sig originally had no frame failures in the 7,000 round testing in 1981. The frame was milled out to improve mud and debris performance, and the resulting hollow sections are where the cracks propagated. Thus, pre-1981 Sigs are certainly more reliable in a long term environment.

15) In the 1984 reliability testing, the Sig P226 had only one malfunction that required an armorer and finished with a total of 12 stoppages. The Beretta had 20 stoppages, with 9 of them requiring an armorer. Thus, you have a near 50% chance that within 1,700 rounds your Beretta 92 will suffer a complete malfunction and require significant maintenance. I can attest from personal experience that this is true of the commercial 92FS from a hard use perspective. The predominance is frame cracking.

16) The M1911A1 had a mean round count of 162 between stoppages, and had a total of 220 stoppages; only 25 required an armorer. I suspect frame cracking was a large part of the issue with the M1911 due to their reliance upon the recoil spring to provide sufficient dampening to the slide during the recoil phase.

17) The Sig P226's firing pin invariably caused roughly 70% of the failures in the 1981 trial.

18) Beretta USA at the time purchased the pistols from Italy for $178.50, and sold them at a retail price of $515.

19) There was significant posturing and lobbying from the Italian government in favor of awarding the contract to Beretta. It was seen that this could be averted by awarding the contract to Beretta USA on the notion that eventually the pistols would be made in Accucreek, MD.

20) The trials were done half-assed and with numerous holes in the methods of testing. The Army and Air Force did not have a standardized method for testing the guns, and relied upon "better than M1911" performance standards as the basis of the testing. As a result, some of the testing numbers were overlooked such as the Sig dry mud testing due to testing methodology shortcomings.

21) Sig sued the US on the basis that the number of replacement parts was not aligned with reliability figures. The significantly more reliable P226 required no replacement parts in 5,000 rounds, yet the pricing quotations stipulated a set number of parts, and in some instances those parts were double counted due to being difficult to field fit, small in size (easily lost), and other variables. The trial was thrown out.

[Dragline45]

I'll never use Checkmate products, period.

Then you obviously don't own an M14/M1A. Check-mate mags are the go-to mags for this platform.

[WVsig]

None of your post relates to the current P226 pistols what Sig is producing... I wonder if you know that?

[FMJ1911]

All one has to do is pick up the two brands. Look at them. Hold them. Examine them.

Checkmate are cheap and flimsy, MecGars are solid and obviously of much higher quality.

All anyone has to do is spend some time reading through all the reports of problems with Checkmate magazines to understand the problem.

[Kevin_d77]

37 posts and insulting moms?

Wow....


This will be closed in 5, 4, 3, 2......

FMJ1911, disrespecting people who have been here for much longer, with more to add and significantly more posts (ie TunnelRat and WVSig) is no way to earn respect or prove your point around here. The mom comment was way out of line.

[TunnelRat]

Rat, basically everything you said is wrong

Really? That's neat, because the only thing I mentioned besides the trials was the FDE finish, which was not around for the original trials on the P226.

Btw you copy posted that post on the trials from another forum, thanks for that. I actually was unaware of how to use Google. Also you'll notice in that post itself is the reference to the dried mud test that the SIG had trouble with. That was all I was referring to, hence my use of "one of the stages". You're complaining on this thread about WVsig taking it personal when you seem to be suffering the same problem.

Edit: I see you edited out the part where you mention WVsig's mother. It takes a lot for me to side with someone I've had arguments with in the past, but that was very tasteless of you (and childish). All he's doing is pointing out that not all Checkmate products are junk, which is a pretty well known fact. We're all here to learn from each other, relax.

[915A]

All I know is the 226 is a great firearm and so is the M9. In 17yrs of Service, and counting, I have seen Soldiers beat the crap out of them. But they just keep working. Yeah they need work from time to time, and yeah im sure there are better options or the great caliber debate. But everytime I have to carry mine and go fire, it has gone bang. Oh and on the mags, ive seen bad reports on most major players that make mags. Same goes with firearms and anything else. Every manufacturer puts out some garbage now and then.

[FMJ1911]

The M9 is a very fine firearm, I was responding to the typical gun forum silliness from the basement-bubba crowd, when somebody tried to start trash-talking the P226.

[Kevin_d77]

FMJ1911
Member

Join Date: April 13, 2013
Posts: 38
The M9 is a very fine firearm, I was responding to the typical gun forum silliness from the basement-bubba crowd, when somebody tried to start trash-talking the P226.


Basement bubba crowd?? Man, you just don't quit!

I'm pretty sure WVSig and TunnelRat both both own Sigs and nobody was bashing them.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by FMJ1911

I was responding to the typical gun forum silliness from the basement-bubba crowd, when somebody tried to start trash-talking the P226.

Lobbing more insults at members? Your stock keeps going up and up.

Who is trash talking the P226? All I did was mention it had trouble on one part of the test, and I even said I preferred it over the Beretta! You're taking things personally that aren't even insults.

[geetarman]

cheap/crappy Checkmate mags,

Bullcrap!

They are the way to go for M1A. Nothing wrong with MecGars either.

You are entitled to your opinion and that is all it is. . .an opinion.

[WVsig]

The M9 is a very fine firearm, I was responding to the typical gun forum silliness from the basement-bubba crowd, when somebody tried to start trash-talking the P226.

I can only assume you attempting to insult me.

Please show me where I trash talked the P226? I do not see what you are referring to.

What I have done is point out that there is some truth to your statements about Checkmate mags for the P226 but that many report that they have been corrected.

I also stated that just because there were issues with the P226 mags from Checkmate that does not mean that they are poor quality mags across the board.

I have also stated that I prefer Mecgars to Checkmates when it comes to Sigs.

Finally I pointed out that your cut and paste job about the M9 trials does not relate to the current pistol which Sig is calling the P226 as closely as you seem to think it does. The P226 has gone through a ton of changes since those trials.

What part of that makes be a bubba in a basement?