Makarov Two-Tone: worth it?

StarDust123 · June 22, 2013, 02:25 AM

Hello everyone,

I think about buying a two-tone Makarov (Bulgarian) online ($360) from a private seller (without FFL).

Looks very interesting, yet I have never seen a two-tone Makarov before. Anyone has any experience?

It is advertised as New-In-Box. Yet when I contacted the seller, he kind of starts playing the game "you know when I bought it from a wholesaler they told me it is NIB... I am not an expert... blah-blah...". Very sketchy.

What does anyone think? Is it truly NIB Bulgarian Makarov?

shaunpain · June 22, 2013, 02:53 AM

While I have seen duo tone Maks with a SS frame, I've never seen one such as this. I thought the price seemed a little high to me, but then I checked Gunbroker and quickly realized that I'm thinking in terms of prices of a few years ago (I have a Baikal belonging to my brother in my safe right now).

For what it's worth, Makarovs are good guns as are the TT-33s that preceded them. Very low recoil with fast follow up shots, I can chase holes at pretty close ranges all day with one. I'm seeing the round available almost everywhere these days (can't say the same for the Tokarev!) so I recommend that as long as it's what you want, go ahead and jump on it. You won't be disappointed. A stellar caliber and a great all steel platform. Good luck!

StarDust123 · June 22, 2013, 03:01 AM

Thanks, shaunpain!

I attach one more picture under different light.

I am worried about this gun being just made of parts in some garage. I am surprised by the lack of discussion on two-tone Makarovs in the internet. Where did he even get this thing from?

shaunpain · June 22, 2013, 03:12 AM

There will be plenty of people here who can tell you a whole lot more information than I could, but prima facie, it all appears to be correct. I'm seeing original Cyrillic, the serial indicates it's a Bulgarian Mak as does the "Circled 10" near the slide release. Everything on the slide looks good and the CAI roll is the same as every one of their imports I've come into contact with. My guess is that this is probably a commercial pistol intended for civilian purchase, probably never issued at the time of importation. It's also entirely plausible that someone in the States that had it at one time refinished the slide, stripping off the blue and having it plated. The only reason I think that's possible is some of the markings on the slide look a little light compared to the frame, and, well, I've never seen a chrome/nickel slide on a Makarov before.

railroader · June 22, 2013, 06:05 AM

In the past I think I have seen commercial russian two tone and plated maks but I don't know about bulgarian. Weren't the bulgarian maks imported as used?

Pond, James Pond · June 22, 2013, 06:33 AM

Forgive my ignorance, but how can a Soviet era military/police issue gun, whose manufacture has ended, ever be class as New-in-box?

Surely by mere virtue of the fact they were imported used, makes that impossible.

Is there another meaning of NIB that I don't know/understand?

kcub · June 22, 2013, 06:41 AM

Everyone can make a case for owning at least one Mak for that time when you wanna go do some blastin' and the ammo shelves are more or less nude except for some cheap, plentiful 9x18.

CZ made a hi cap model that was of undoubted high quality. I probably snoozed and losed on that opportunity.

Another role is as a pocket gun. Another role is as a dirt cheap gun for throwing into the glove box or other such duties where you might cry if something nicer got stolen.

Pilot · June 22, 2013, 07:16 AM

It may have been a commercial release, or someone had the slide nickeled or hard chromed. $360 sounds high to me for a Bulgarian. However, Bulgies are great Makarovs, and if you can find one for sub $250 buy it

Doyle · June 22, 2013, 08:53 AM

That's not a commercial Mak - at least as far as I can tell. Every commercial Mak I've ever seen made had adjustable rear sights. My guess is that somebody chromed the slide on a milspec.

That gun has absolutely zero value as a collector. Whatever value it has is as a shooter. Therefore, what is a shooter Mak worth to you? Can you get a regular finish shooter Mak for less? Is there some special appeal to you having a two-tone. Only you can answer those questions.

$360 isn't a terrible price for a shooter Mak, but it isn't great either. If you are patient, you can get them down around the $300 range.

lee n. field · June 22, 2013, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Looks very interesting, yet I have never seen a two-tone Makarov before. Anyone has any experience?

Circle-10 is Bulgarian, so that is accurate.

I doubt this is NIB. I can't recall hearing of any run-of-the-mill Bulgarian milsurps that were anything but blue. So my guess is someone plated it. You could check the barrel surface. After firing, the friction with the recoil spring will scuff the outside of the barrel. If the barrel is unscuffed, the gun likely hasn't had many rounds though it.

Oh, yeah. Ditch that hideous "target" grip. Get a surplus East German grip, or the original Bulgarian or Russian military grip. Check ebay. The Pearce rubber grips are OK, too, though a bit fat and "pillowy". I like EG grips a lot. They have a bit of a palm swell that the others don't.

Price? Any more, I don't know. The days of $125 Makarovs are past, alas.

lee n. field · June 22, 2013, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Forgive my ignorance, but how can a Soviet era military/police issue gun, whose manufacture has ended, ever be class as New-in-box?

Surely by mere virtue of the fact they were imported used, makes that impossible.

Made, packed away and never fired. See my comments above about barrel scuffing. My first Bulgarian Makarov was like that.

I doubt you'll see one like that now.

Pilot · June 24, 2013, 03:32 AM

Quote:

That's not a commercial Mak - at least as far as I can tell. Every commercial Mak I've ever seen made had adjustable rear sights.

That is only true of Russian Maks. Their commercial guns had the adjustable sights. The Bulgarians did produce and sell commercial, fixed sight Maks here through Arsenal, but this does look like a Bulgie military Mak that had the slide refinished.

lee n. field · June 24, 2013, 09:32 AM

The Arsenal commercial Maks have a (or so trendy) squared trigger guard.

(There's times I regret trading my Bulgarian off.)

Pilot · June 24, 2013, 10:47 AM

The Miltex Bulgies had the square trigger guards, the Arsenal had the rounded.

Quote:

Bulgarian
*"Factory 10" marked Military version Makarov, 9x18, 8rd version only
*"Factory 10" Made, Military Export model, normally does not have Factory 10 mark, S/N code system does not always match normal Bulgarian Coding system. A few of these have turned up from Mid-East.
*"Factory 10" with Chrome plating, believed to be for Navy (Black Sea Navy) Issue
*Miltex Special Edition (SE), High Gloss Blue, 9x18
*Miltex SE Sporting Pistol, High Gloss Blue, 9x18, squared triggerguard
*Miltex SE Sporting Pistol, High Gloss Blue, .380 ACP, squared triggerguard
*Miltex SE Sporting Pistol, Satin Nickel, .380 ACP, squared triggerguard
*Miltex SE Sporting Pistol, Satin Nickel, 9x18, squared triggerguard
*Miltex SE Sporting Pistol, Polished Nickel, 9x18, squared triggerguard
*Miltex SE Sporting Pistol, Polished Nickel, .380 ACP, squared triggerguard
*Miltex SE Sporting Pistol, Polished Nickel Frame, Satin Nickel Slide, .380 ACP, squared triggerguard
*Miltex SE Sporting Pistol, Polished Nickel Frame, Satin Nickel Slide, 9x18, squared triggerguard
*Miltex SE Sporting Pistol, High Polish Blued Frame, Satin Nickel Slide, .380 ACP, squared triggerguard
*Miltex SE Sporting Pistol, High Polish Blued Frame, Satin Nickel Slide, 9x18, squared triggerguard
*Arsenal Brand Sporting Pistol, may or maynot also have Miltex logo on slide. 9x18, Blued.
*Arsenal Brand Sporting Pistol, may or maynot also have Miltex logo on slide. .380 ACP, Blued.
*Arsenal Brand Sporting Pistol, 9x18, Gray Parkarized Finish.
*Arsenal Brand Sporting Pistol, with Large Aarsenal (with two "A"'s) Logo on Slide, 9x18 Matte Blued (Model P-M01)
*Arsenal Brand Sporting Pistol, with Large Aarsenal (with two "A"'s) Logo on Slide, .380 ACP Matte Blued (Model P-M01)
*Arsenal Brand Sporting Pistol, with Large Aarsenal (with two "A"'s) Logo on Slide, 9x18 Satin Chrome (Model P-M01)
*Arsenal Brand Sporting Pistol, with Large Aarsenal (with two "A"'s) Logo on Slide, 9x18 Polished Chrome (Model P-M01)

From the Gunboards Forum.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...es-of-Makarovs

lee n. field · June 24, 2013, 09:07 PM

It's been a while, but they appear to be the same: http://www.makarov.com/miltex/

Quote:

The slide bears the inscription "Makarov Special Edition", "Cal 9x18", the Arsenal trademark, and "Made in Bulgaria" on the left side; "Miltex, Inc", "LaPlata, Maryland, USA" on the right side. The serial number is engraved on both the slide and the frame.

Arsenal the manufacturer, Miltex the importer.

Quote:

The polished blue finish Miltex Special Edition Makarov had a suggested retail price of $250. The other finishes were $10-$20 more. The burning question most "Makarovniks" will have is "is it worth it?" If you consider how little $250 buys you these days in terms of a quality reliable autoloading pistol and its collectible status, the price of the Miltex Makarov is more than fair.

<sigh!>

qwiksdraw · June 25, 2013, 07:18 AM

The asking price is on the high end of Bulgarian Maks being sold today (just what I have seen). Start the negotiations at $300 and see where it takes you.

If you really want a Mak and like this one, go for it. Even if you pay on the high end, you will soon forget that as you begin to enjoy shooting with it.

Pilot · June 25, 2013, 07:46 AM

My point is that there were Bulgarian commercial Maks produced with round trigger guards.

This seems to be a Circle 10 Bulgarian surplus with a nickeled or chromed slide.

Seaman · June 25, 2013, 07:56 AM

"Forgive my ignorance, but how can a Soviet era military/police issue gun, whose manufacture has ended, ever be class as New-in-box?

Surely by mere virtue of the fact they were imported used, makes that impossible. " [Pond]

"Made, packed away and never fired." [lee n. field]

Lee N. Field is right, you see it all the time, they are also called 'NOS' meaning "New-Old-Stock." I've bought a number over the years, (including an old/new Makarov,) of various different manufacturers.

Last fall an old gent brought a 38 Colt snubby to the range. He said he had bought it new in 1972 and never fired it, never turned the cylinder.* It was a beautiful blue. He said now that he is older he was going to carry a smaller bore handgun. He fired 6 and they all went well left of the target. Handed the gun to me and asked me if there was anything wrong with it. I shot it and the bullets went dead center bull.

I wanted to make him an offer on the gun but it is a really accurate piece, and he needed it more, so I just showed him how to shoot it properly.

*Addendum: In the case of the old/new unfired 38 Colt snubby, it would be considered 'ANIB' or "As-New-In-Box." Lots of ways to acquire old/new guns.

PSP · June 25, 2013, 10:16 AM

Quote:

It is advertised as New-In-Box.

IMHO, that gun was NIB about 40 years ago, then handled, used, cleaned fired and otherwise used. That is apparent. The chrome slide is either aftermarket or if factory, it's the first I've seen. I'd pay that much for an East German Mak, but not a Bulgarian.

Rodger_p · June 25, 2013, 11:48 AM

FWIW...

If memory serves, the date of manufacture should be 1988. (Just add 60 to the first two digits.)

IMHO... The slide looks like crome, my guess is that someone wanted extra corrosion protection. But, who knows at this point. One positive note, the Cyrillic numbers match, so it most likely is not a "parts" gun.

Personally, I would prefer it to be either "all or nothing" either all crome/nickle or all blued.

But, like I said, my humble opinion...

June 24, 2013, 09:32 AM	#13
lee n. field Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2002 Location: The same state as Mordor. Posts: 5,588	The Arsenal commercial Maks have a (or so trendy) squared trigger guard. (There's times I regret trading my Bulgarian off.) __________________ "As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. "

June 25, 2013, 07:56 AM	#18
Seaman Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2011 Posts: 654	"Forgive my ignorance, but how can a Soviet era military/police issue gun, whose manufacture has ended, ever be class as New-in-box? Surely by mere virtue of the fact they were imported used, makes that impossible. " [Pond] "Made, packed away and never fired." [lee n. field] Lee N. Field is right, you see it all the time, they are also called 'NOS' meaning "New-Old-Stock." I've bought a number over the years, (including an old/new Makarov,) of various different manufacturers. Last fall an old gent brought a 38 Colt snubby to the range. He said he had bought it new in 1972 and never fired it, never turned the cylinder.* It was a beautiful blue. He said now that he is older he was going to carry a smaller bore handgun. He fired 6 and they all went well left of the target. Handed the gun to me and asked me if there was anything wrong with it. I shot it and the bullets went dead center bull. I wanted to make him an offer on the gun but it is a really accurate piece, and he needed it more, so I just showed him how to shoot it properly. Addendum: In the case of the old/new unfired 38 Colt snubby, it would be considered 'ANIB' or "As-New-In-Box." Lots of ways to acquire old/new guns. Last edited by Seaman; June 25, 2013 at 08:42 AM.*

June 22, 2013, 02:53 AM	#2
shaunpain Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 854	While I have seen duo tone Maks with a SS frame, I've never seen one such as this. I thought the price seemed a little high to me, but then I checked Gunbroker and quickly realized that I'm thinking in terms of prices of a few years ago (I have a Baikal belonging to my brother in my safe right now). For what it's worth, Makarovs are good guns as are the TT-33s that preceded them. Very low recoil with fast follow up shots, I can chase holes at pretty close ranges all day with one. I'm seeing the round available almost everywhere these days (can't say the same for the Tokarev!) so I recommend that as long as it's what you want, go ahead and jump on it. You won't be disappointed. A stellar caliber and a great all steel platform. Good luck!

June 22, 2013, 03:12 AM	#4
shaunpain Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 854	There will be plenty of people here who can tell you a whole lot more information than I could, but prima facie, it all appears to be correct. I'm seeing original Cyrillic, the serial indicates it's a Bulgarian Mak as does the "Circled 10" near the slide release. Everything on the slide looks good and the CAI roll is the same as every one of their imports I've come into contact with. My guess is that this is probably a commercial pistol intended for civilian purchase, probably never issued at the time of importation. It's also entirely plausible that someone in the States that had it at one time refinished the slide, stripping off the blue and having it plated. The only reason I think that's possible is some of the markings on the slide look a little light compared to the frame, and, well, I've never seen a chrome/nickel slide on a Makarov before.

June 22, 2013, 06:05 AM	#5
railroader Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2000 Location: Tucson Arizona Posts: 1,756	In the past I think I have seen commercial russian two tone and plated maks but I don't know about bulgarian. Weren't the bulgarian maks imported as used?

June 22, 2013, 06:33 AM	#6
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	Forgive my ignorance, but how can a Soviet era military/police issue gun, whose manufacture has ended, ever be class as New-in-box? Surely by mere virtue of the fact they were imported used, makes that impossible. Is there another meaning of NIB that I don't know/understand?

June 22, 2013, 06:41 AM	#7
kcub Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2010 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 3,332	Everyone can make a case for owning at least one Mak for that time when you wanna go do some blastin' and the ammo shelves are more or less nude except for some cheap, plentiful 9x18. CZ made a hi cap model that was of undoubted high quality. I probably snoozed and losed on that opportunity. Another role is as a pocket gun. Another role is as a dirt cheap gun for throwing into the glove box or other such duties where you might cry if something nicer got stolen.

June 22, 2013, 07:16 AM	#8
Pilot Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2000 Posts: 4,193	It may have been a commercial release, or someone had the slide nickeled or hard chromed. $360 sounds high to me for a Bulgarian. However, Bulgies are great Makarovs, and if you can find one for sub $250 buy it

June 22, 2013, 08:53 AM	#9
Doyle Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2007 Location: Rainbow City, Alabama Posts: 7,167	That's not a commercial Mak - at least as far as I can tell. Every commercial Mak I've ever seen made had adjustable rear sights. My guess is that somebody chromed the slide on a milspec. That gun has absolutely zero value as a collector. Whatever value it has is as a shooter. Therefore, what is a shooter Mak worth to you? Can you get a regular finish shooter Mak for less? Is there some special appeal to you having a two-tone. Only you can answer those questions. $360 isn't a terrible price for a shooter Mak, but it isn't great either. If you are patient, you can get them down around the $300 range.

June 25, 2013, 07:18 AM	#16
qwiksdraw Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2012 Posts: 534	The asking price is on the high end of Bulgarian Maks being sold today (just what I have seen). Start the negotiations at $300 and see where it takes you. If you really want a Mak and like this one, go for it. Even if you pay on the high end, you will soon forget that as you begin to enjoy shooting with it.

June 25, 2013, 07:46 AM	#17
Pilot Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2000 Posts: 4,193	My point is that there were Bulgarian commercial Maks produced with round trigger guards. This seems to be a Circle 10 Bulgarian surplus with a nickeled or chromed slide.

June 25, 2013, 11:48 AM	#20
Rodger_p Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2004 Location: East TN. Posts: 207	FWIW... If memory serves, the date of manufacture should be 1988. (Just add 60 to the first two digits.) IMHO... The slide looks like crome, my guess is that someone wanted extra corrosion protection. But, who knows at this point. One positive note, the Cyrillic numbers match, so it most likely is not a "parts" gun. Personally, I would prefer it to be either "all or nothing" either all crome/nickle or all blued. But, like I said, my humble opinion...