AR Varmint

Kimber84 · May 25, 2013, 09:42 PM

Any recommendations on brands and places to purchase a 20" SS upper in .223 or .204? I'm not looking for the cheapest but I'd like to have something decent. I'm newer to ARs and really don't have a good feel for what's good/bad when it comes to this.

It will be used mostly for groundhogs and yotes, looking at somewhere around 50-60grain bullet in .223 and probably a 32 grain if I go .204. .204 would more than likely just be strict groundhogs.

Let me know your thoughts and possible places that are reliable with service if I were to order.

rebs · May 26, 2013, 06:50 AM

I would recommend the Windham Weaponry varmint exterminator upper. It has a Compass Lake chamber and matching bolt, 20" fluted free float SS barrel. Extremely accurate and a reasonable price.

cobra81 · May 26, 2013, 09:19 PM

I recently built my first AR. I went with White Oak Armament (WOA) for my varmint upper. They are a small shop, but the owner, John Holliger, has been shooting competitively for years, and the product he turns out is highly regarded everywhere I researched.

I went with a 24" stainless barrel, 1 in 8 twist. Built it on a S&W 15 lower, and dropped in a Geiselle National Match trigger. The thing is a tack-driver; can't wait to get it out on some p-dog towns soon. Sierra 69 gr. Match King bullets over 24 grains of RL-15 seems to be the ticket.

Good luck with your build.

Beentown71 · May 26, 2013, 09:32 PM

White Oak Armament

Rock River ATH

Kimber84 · May 28, 2013, 09:07 AM

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll keep these in mind as I progress. Seem to be exactly what I'm looking for.

Beentown71 · May 28, 2013, 10:33 AM

Here is a pic of my recent ATH'like rifle:

Art Eatman · May 28, 2013, 01:06 PM

I started with a plain-vanilla Colt AR. I had CMMG build a complete flat-top upper. 20" lightweight barrel; 1:14 twist. Not stainless, however.

With a K-4 on top, I got one MOA from my bench. Mostly, 55-grain soft points.

I figure, not bad. I'm in my 70s, smoke, drink a lot of coffee and when I did the shooting I was still wearing tri-focals.

ronl · May 28, 2013, 08:15 PM

I went with mid weight Delton 20" barrel and upper on my varmint build. BWA comp and free float tube. The lower is an Eagle Arms with a RR trigger. Only time I shot it for groups I got a 15/16" 3shot @ 200yds. Haven't shot it again for groups but it has put down a few varmints since then. Shoots a lot better than expected, and didn't break the bank getting there.

MarkCO · May 29, 2013, 09:49 AM

Just a couple of things to think about...

In still air, the .204s I have built (24" SS HBs) will print about 1" at 300 yards, but add a breeze and the groups double. Barrel life is on the order of 4K rounds.

The .223 Rem uppers (24" SS HB) will print about 1.5" at 300 yards, even in the breeze. Barrel life is on the order of 9K rounds.

Inside 200 yards, there is little if any difference in the rounds. If you want to go past 250 on tiny targets and wind is not an issue, the .204 has a slight edge that is paid for at the rate of about $0.10/round due to barrel life.

Complete uppers: Premium grade would be Seekins, JP, Compass Lake. Mid-Grade would be White Oak, Windham, LMT.

All that said, I had a customer that wore me out with details and questions on a varmint build...we settled at what he wanted for about $1500 and then his tranny went out in his truck. He bought a 20" Model 1 varmint upper for under $700 shipped and while a tad rough and not as pretty, he hits his targets just as well out to 300 yards. YMMV.

Kimber84 · May 29, 2013, 10:19 AM

Thanks for all the info guys.

I'm currently running an 84M Kimber .204 and see exactly what you're talking about at longer ranges with it... But man, when its calm what a tack driver.

Only reason I'm considering .204 is due to excess brass and experience with it. I also have hoards of .223 brass as well. I'm leaning more towards the .223 though just on a basis of parts availability and different flavors of options available.

orddy · May 29, 2013, 07:33 PM

I live in South Dakota right in the middle of pasture poodle country. I'm an extremely avid shooter of these pests and have guided numerous hunts. I use a few different combinations of the AR-15 for hunting these poodles and i have built everyone except 2 uppers and they are probably a couple of my best dog guns not that my guns don't work just fine. My store boughts uppers are both Olympic WSSM uppers and are the dog killingest machines i've ever had the pleasure of shooting on the AR platform. When building a 223, pretty much any high quality barrel will produce better results than most shooters can shoot. As long as you use any of the good quality parts available on the market you won't go wrong unless you can't put the gun together correctly to start with. I shoot between 5,000 to 8,000 rounds a year. I use my 223's for the close shots (500yds and less) and my 243WSSM for all the longer shots. Using a Dillion 650 loading press allows me to crank out as much ammo as i need for the 223 and i load the WSSM's all by hand one at a time for greater long range accuracy. Replacing barrels on AR's is a simple task although when the WSSM's have to be replaced i'll send them to Mike Millie at D'TECH in St Cloud, Minn. Put your own AR together and you might be surprised at just how well it'll shoot just so long as you use good parts and good ammo. Happy shooting guys.

Kimber84 · May 29, 2013, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orddy

I live in South Dakota right in the middle of pasture poodle country. I'm an extremely avid shooter of these pests and have guided numerous hunts. I use a few different combinations of the AR-15 for hunting these poodles and i have built everyone except 2 uppers and they are probably a couple of my best dog guns not that my guns don't work just fine. My store boughts uppers are both Olympic WSSM uppers and are the dog killingest machines i've ever had the pleasure of shooting on the AR platform. When building a 223, pretty much any high quality barrel will produce better results than most shooters can shoot. As long as you use any of the good quality parts available on the market you won't go wrong unless you can't put the gun together correctly to start with. I shoot between 5,000 to 8,000 rounds a year. I use my 223's for the close shots (500yds and less) and my 243WSSM for all the longer shots. Using a Dillion 650 loading press allows me to crank out as much ammo as i need for the 223 and i load the WSSM's all by hand one at a time for greater long range accuracy. Replacing barrels on AR's is a simple task although when the WSSM's have to be replaced i'll send them to Mike Millie at D'TECH in St Cloud, Minn. Put your own AR together and you might be surprised at just how well it'll shoot just so long as you use good parts and good ammo. Happy shooting guys.

Thanks for the insight... How I'd love to come out there some day to pop p dogs... The groundhogs are definetly around here, but there are more and more houses every day it seems. Feel like its closing in on me.

sailskidrive · May 29, 2013, 11:04 PM

Here is my varmint rig. POF lower with CMC trigger and PRS stock. Fulton Armory upper with a Krieger 1/9 24" stainless barrel. In no wind I can hold 4" groups at 300 yards with 69gr Sierra Match King hand loads.
The scope is a Weaver Extreme 3-9x. While the glass is decent, I really don't care for the reticle and intend to swap it out for a SWFA 3-15 when I get some time.
The big problem with precision AR varmint rigs is trying to mount the glass low to the bore and still being able to get your head behind it.

sundog · May 30, 2013, 08:59 AM

Last weekend I had the opportunity to put a lot of rounds through a RRA 20" Varmint upper on an older RRA lower with a RRA varmint trigger. This rifle had a Nikon M-223 scope. Hand loaded 69 gr SMK and 55 gr Midway Dogtown HPs were both stellar at 200 yards. This rifle had an A2 stock on it, and I suspect it would be a lot more comfortable, and maybe even a tad more accurate (if that were even possible), with a good precision stock. Like others have mentioned, good quality parts properly fitted will yield good results.

Kimber84 · May 30, 2013, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailskidrive

Here is my varmint rig. POF lower with CMC trigger and PRS stock. Fulton Armory upper with a Krieger 1/9 24" stainless barrel. In no wind I can hold 4" groups at 300 yards with 69gr Sierra Match King hand loads.
The scope is a Weaver Extreme 3-9x. While the glass is decent, I really don't care for the reticle and intend to swap it out for a SWFA 3-15 when I get some time.
The big problem with precision AR varmint rigs is trying to mount the glass low to the bore and still being able to get your head behind it.

Oh my!!! That is NICE!!

Wyoredman · May 30, 2013, 06:08 PM

For a varmint rig on a budget, I suggest looking at the DPMS heavy barreled stuff.

They work great and don't cost an armload.

Look out because the guys with the $3-4000 guns will look down their long barrels at you when you shoot the last prairie dog out from under them.

ETA: 4" groups a 300 is completely doable with DPMS at $1000! But I must say, sailskidrive, that is a nice lookin' gun that I would be proud to own!

sailskidrive · May 31, 2013, 09:30 AM

When I built this gun it was under $1k. (glass not included) However, that was back in 2006.

I fully expect to see a crash in the AR market this time next year, so if cost is a major issue saving your pennies and waiting may not be a bad idea. There are more manufacturers than ever cranking out ARs so the supply capacity is very high. Lots of folks panicked after the last election and the Newtown massacre and spent their budgets and beyond. Many folks who never owned an AR, probably because they have zero use for one, bought and will soon realize they may never use the gun. We are facing an ban starting October 1st here in Maryland, yet we're starting to see used ARs popping up for sale all over. Anyway, the point I'm making is that you'll probably be able to stretch your allotted budget by just waiting a little whikle.

I've owned DPMSs in the past and recently sold off my last one back in the January. I feel the best gun they offer for the price is the original LR-308 with the 24" in barrel. If you want a 5.56 in general, I believe you can get a better gun for the same money through PSA, Spikes, etc.

Black Rain Ordnance seems to be pretty hot right now. I walked into one of our VPs office's yesterday, he and another VP were drooling over a BRO 20" setup.

Kimber84 · May 31, 2013, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailskidrive

When I built this gun it was under $1k. (glass not included) However, that was back in 2006.

I fully expect to see a crash in the AR market this time next year, so if cost is a major issue saving your pennies and waiting may not be a bad idea. There are more manufacturers than ever cranking out ARs so the supply capacity is very high. Lots of folks panicked after the last election and the Newtown massacre and spent their budgets and beyond. Many folks who never owned an AR, probably because they have zero use for one, bought and will soon realize they may never use the gun. We are facing an ban starting October 1st here in Maryland, yet we're starting to see used ARs popping up for sale all over. Anyway, the point I'm making is that you'll probably be able to stretch your allotted budget by just waiting a little whikle.

I've owned DPMSs in the past and recently sold off my last one back in the January. I feel the best gun they offer for the price is the original LR-308 with the 24" in barrel. If you want a 5.56 in general, I believe you can get a better gun for the same money through PSA, Spikes, etc.

Black Rain Ordnance seems to be pretty hot right now. I walked into one of our VPs office's yesterday, he and another VP were drooling over a BRO 20" setup.

I think you nailed it, I'm already seeing a flood of ARs at local shops... They finally caught up on all the orders now they're sitting on piles of them.

I'm in no rush to get one going, just feeling out what other people are using and having luck with. I'll probably wait till the end of the year to start collecting parts if I decide to go that route.

Thanks

NWCP · June 2, 2013, 06:57 AM

I use my Stag Arms .223 for small varmint and have 6.8 SPCII upper for predators. The 6.8 is serious coyote medicine.

Kimber84 · June 2, 2013, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NWCP

I use my Stag Arms .223 for small varmint and have 6.8 SPCII upper for predators. The 6.8 is serious coyote medicine.

Speaking of coyotes, this one ended up at the wrong end of a .243 this morning

May 25, 2013, 09:42 PM	#1
Kimber84 Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Location: US Posts: 455	AR Varmint Any recommendations on brands and places to purchase a 20" SS upper in .223 or .204? I'm not looking for the cheapest but I'd like to have something decent. I'm newer to ARs and really don't have a good feel for what's good/bad when it comes to this. It will be used mostly for groundhogs and yotes, looking at somewhere around 50-60grain bullet in .223 and probably a 32 grain if I go .204. .204 would more than likely just be strict groundhogs. Let me know your thoughts and possible places that are reliable with service if I were to order.

May 26, 2013, 09:32 PM	#4
Beentown71 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,560	Re: AR Varmint White Oak Armament Rock River ATH

May 28, 2013, 09:07 AM	#5
Kimber84 Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Location: US Posts: 455	AR Varmint Thanks for the recommendations, I'll keep these in mind as I progress. Seem to be exactly what I'm looking for.

May 28, 2013, 10:33 AM	#6
Beentown71 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,560	Here is a pic of my recent ATH'like rifle: __________________ Μολὼν λάβε Time for the Mall Ninja list: Beretta 92fs, Springer XD9, High Standard Model HB, RRA bull bbl...aw heck with it time to go plink

May 29, 2013, 09:49 AM	#9
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,362	Just a couple of things to think about... In still air, the .204s I have built (24" SS HBs) will print about 1" at 300 yards, but add a breeze and the groups double. Barrel life is on the order of 4K rounds. The .223 Rem uppers (24" SS HB) will print about 1.5" at 300 yards, even in the breeze. Barrel life is on the order of 9K rounds. Inside 200 yards, there is little if any difference in the rounds. If you want to go past 250 on tiny targets and wind is not an issue, the .204 has a slight edge that is paid for at the rate of about $0.10/round due to barrel life. Complete uppers: Premium grade would be Seekins, JP, Compass Lake. Mid-Grade would be White Oak, Windham, LMT. All that said, I had a customer that wore me out with details and questions on a varmint build...we settled at what he wanted for about $1500 and then his tranny went out in his truck. He bought a 20" Model 1 varmint upper for under $700 shipped and while a tad rough and not as pretty, he hits his targets just as well out to 300 yards. YMMV. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

May 26, 2013, 06:50 AM	#2
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	I would recommend the Windham Weaponry varmint exterminator upper. It has a Compass Lake chamber and matching bolt, 20" fluted free float SS barrel. Extremely accurate and a reasonable price.

May 26, 2013, 09:19 PM	#3
cobra81 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 336	I recently built my first AR. I went with White Oak Armament (WOA) for my varmint upper. They are a small shop, but the owner, John Holliger, has been shooting competitively for years, and the product he turns out is highly regarded everywhere I researched. I went with a 24" stainless barrel, 1 in 8 twist. Built it on a S&W 15 lower, and dropped in a Geiselle National Match trigger. The thing is a tack-driver; can't wait to get it out on some p-dog towns soon. Sierra 69 gr. Match King bullets over 24 grains of RL-15 seems to be the ticket. Good luck with your build.

May 28, 2013, 01:06 PM	#7
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I started with a plain-vanilla Colt AR. I had CMMG build a complete flat-top upper. 20" lightweight barrel; 1:14 twist. Not stainless, however. With a K-4 on top, I got one MOA from my bench. Mostly, 55-grain soft points. I figure, not bad. I'm in my 70s, smoke, drink a lot of coffee and when I did the shooting I was still wearing tri-focals.

May 28, 2013, 08:15 PM	#8
ronl Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Posts: 1,127	I went with mid weight Delton 20" barrel and upper on my varmint build. BWA comp and free float tube. The lower is an Eagle Arms with a RR trigger. Only time I shot it for groups I got a 15/16" 3shot @ 200yds. Haven't shot it again for groups but it has put down a few varmints since then. Shoots a lot better than expected, and didn't break the bank getting there.

May 29, 2013, 10:19 AM	#10
Kimber84 Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Location: US Posts: 455	AR Varmint Thanks for all the info guys. I'm currently running an 84M Kimber .204 and see exactly what you're talking about at longer ranges with it... But man, when its calm what a tack driver. Only reason I'm considering .204 is due to excess brass and experience with it. I also have hoards of .223 brass as well. I'm leaning more towards the .223 though just on a basis of parts availability and different flavors of options available.

May 29, 2013, 07:33 PM	#11
orddy Junior Member Join Date: March 4, 2009 Posts: 6	Varmint AR I live in South Dakota right in the middle of pasture poodle country. I'm an extremely avid shooter of these pests and have guided numerous hunts. I use a few different combinations of the AR-15 for hunting these poodles and i have built everyone except 2 uppers and they are probably a couple of my best dog guns not that my guns don't work just fine. My store boughts uppers are both Olympic WSSM uppers and are the dog killingest machines i've ever had the pleasure of shooting on the AR platform. When building a 223, pretty much any high quality barrel will produce better results than most shooters can shoot. As long as you use any of the good quality parts available on the market you won't go wrong unless you can't put the gun together correctly to start with. I shoot between 5,000 to 8,000 rounds a year. I use my 223's for the close shots (500yds and less) and my 243WSSM for all the longer shots. Using a Dillion 650 loading press allows me to crank out as much ammo as i need for the 223 and i load the WSSM's all by hand one at a time for greater long range accuracy. Replacing barrels on AR's is a simple task although when the WSSM's have to be replaced i'll send them to Mike Millie at D'TECH in St Cloud, Minn. Put your own AR together and you might be surprised at just how well it'll shoot just so long as you use good parts and good ammo. Happy shooting guys.

May 29, 2013, 11:04 PM	#13
sailskidrive Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2008 Posts: 726	Here is my varmint rig. POF lower with CMC trigger and PRS stock. Fulton Armory upper with a Krieger 1/9 24" stainless barrel. In no wind I can hold 4" groups at 300 yards with 69gr Sierra Match King hand loads. The scope is a Weaver Extreme 3-9x. While the glass is decent, I really don't care for the reticle and intend to swap it out for a SWFA 3-15 when I get some time. The big problem with precision AR varmint rigs is trying to mount the glass low to the bore and still being able to get your head behind it. __________________ SailSkiDrive Hk USP 45 Expert, USP 40, USP 9, SIG P226, S&W M&P9, Hk 4, Makarov, Desert Eagle 40, Beretta FS92 Centurion, Kimber TLEII 1911A1, Glock 22, SIG P225, 1943 Rem Rand 1911A1, S&W mod 64, Walther PPQ, SIG P229, Browning BDA 45 (SIG P220), Hk45, SIG P230

May 30, 2013, 08:59 AM	#14
sundog Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Green Country, OK Posts: 783	Last weekend I had the opportunity to put a lot of rounds through a RRA 20" Varmint upper on an older RRA lower with a RRA varmint trigger. This rifle had a Nikon M-223 scope. Hand loaded 69 gr SMK and 55 gr Midway Dogtown HPs were both stellar at 200 yards. This rifle had an A2 stock on it, and I suspect it would be a lot more comfortable, and maybe even a tad more accurate (if that were even possible), with a good precision stock. Like others have mentioned, good quality parts properly fitted will yield good results. __________________ safety first

May 30, 2013, 06:08 PM	#16
Wyoredman Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,374	For a varmint rig on a budget, I suggest looking at the DPMS heavy barreled stuff. They work great and don't cost an armload. Look out because the guys with the $3-4000 guns will look down their long barrels at you when you shoot the last prairie dog out from under them. ETA: 4" groups a 300 is completely doable with DPMS at $1000! But I must say, sailskidrive, that is a nice lookin' gun that I would be proud to own! __________________ Go Pokes! Go Rams!

May 31, 2013, 09:30 AM	#17
sailskidrive Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2008 Posts: 726	When I built this gun it was under $1k. (glass not included) However, that was back in 2006. I fully expect to see a crash in the AR market this time next year, so if cost is a major issue saving your pennies and waiting may not be a bad idea. There are more manufacturers than ever cranking out ARs so the supply capacity is very high. Lots of folks panicked after the last election and the Newtown massacre and spent their budgets and beyond. Many folks who never owned an AR, probably because they have zero use for one, bought and will soon realize they may never use the gun. We are facing an ban starting October 1st here in Maryland, yet we're starting to see used ARs popping up for sale all over. Anyway, the point I'm making is that you'll probably be able to stretch your allotted budget by just waiting a little whikle. I've owned DPMSs in the past and recently sold off my last one back in the January. I feel the best gun they offer for the price is the original LR-308 with the 24" in barrel. If you want a 5.56 in general, I believe you can get a better gun for the same money through PSA, Spikes, etc. Black Rain Ordnance seems to be pretty hot right now. I walked into one of our VPs office's yesterday, he and another VP were drooling over a BRO 20" setup. __________________ SailSkiDrive Hk USP 45 Expert, USP 40, USP 9, SIG P226, S&W M&P9, Hk 4, Makarov, Desert Eagle 40, Beretta FS92 Centurion, Kimber TLEII 1911A1, Glock 22, SIG P225, 1943 Rem Rand 1911A1, S&W mod 64, Walther PPQ, SIG P229, Browning BDA 45 (SIG P220), Hk45, SIG P230

June 2, 2013, 06:57 AM	#19
NWCP Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2006 Posts: 1,903	I use my Stag Arms .223 for small varmint and have 6.8 SPCII upper for predators. The 6.8 is serious coyote medicine.