Still as reliable

odugrad · April 17, 2013, 10:41 AM

I have heard some complaints about some of the newer guns that used to set the standard for reliability. My question is: Do you think these two guns are still top of the line and/or as good as their reputation? Glock 19 (Gen4) and Sig 226 (current, non-German made).

LED · April 17, 2013, 11:48 AM

I believe they are as good as before. I have not personally watched and compared over the last 30 years. But both are still winning department and Goverment contracts. Most of the flak comes from the Internet where people complain about everything else in the world.

P.S. I have owned both at one time or another. Sig Sauer still manufactures some 226s in Germany. Which is unlikely to make any difference today as compared to the New Hampshire factory. Just recently I learned that some Glocks are also (quietly) made in the U.S. Absolutely identical.

Ben Dover · April 17, 2013, 12:23 PM

I own and carry a SIG-Sauer P226 and a P239. I also own and shoot four Glocks, Models 17,20,21, and 22. They are among the most reliable pistols ever made.

temmi · April 17, 2013, 01:19 PM

I think the Sig is

I never thought the Glock was poor...

But

Not Top of the Line

Snake

JHansenAK47 · April 17, 2013, 02:09 PM

I hear about these unreliable SIGs and GEN 4 Glocks but have yet to see one that wasn't reliable.

Wreck-n-Crew · April 17, 2013, 04:24 PM

My problem with them both is price.

There are a few guns i can have that fit just as well, sometimes better,shoot just as well, as reliable and in some cases look better than the G19 and the Sig226.

The sig for me is just to overpriced for me. I like the guns but they are a few hundred dollars higher than what they should be.

For those reasons i favor the Ruger sr9/40, the M&P and the Xd's.

I like the sr9 for function and value.

The M&P...look, function and Value and Feel or form.

The Xd for form, look, look, function and sights (kind of a function).

LED · April 17, 2013, 05:05 PM

Mind of I recommend a Sig not overpriced? The 2022 in 9mm. $400 and change. Same range as your favorites.

ClydeFrog · April 17, 2013, 08:18 PM

If you are a NRA member or can access the online/web versions of NRA magazine articles you can see a recent(2011) story about former SAS commando & counter-terrorist expert Andy McNab discuss the merits & T&Es of SAS issue P226s & P228s/P229s. He said the spec ops guys in the 22nd Regiment & the elite SBS(special boat squadron; the UK version of SEALs/SWCC) loved SIG Sauer pistols. McNab also stated the SIG models held up better in combat & hard use then the Glock sidearms.

I've heard the newer made US SIG-Sauer pistols(P or Classic series) are not as high quality as the 1980s/1990s line but SIG-Sauer did a total re-structure of the top floor execs in the USA so that may change a lot.

Glocks, the 4th Gen; RTF-02 pistols had many problems but the execs & engineers worked out a lot of the bugs & problems.
I'd feel safe with a Gen04 Glock as a left-handed gunner but I'd add a Hogue rubber sleeve or add-on.
FWIW: Many armed professionals prefer the older Glock Gen 03 but I say either is okay in 2013.
I just never cared for the Glock frame open slot behind the loaded magazine.
I think Gaston Glock wanted a space for sand, grit, snow, dirt, etc to slide out with ease but I think it just allows more crud to mess up the ammunition or mag.

tomrkba · April 17, 2013, 08:39 PM

Quote:

I just never cared for the Glock frame open slot behind the loaded magazine.

Get the grip plug.

I have a 2010 P220. It is just fine. SIG still supports their guns. If it gives you trouble, call them and have them fix it.

I think the Glock 19 Gen4 has been debugged at this time.

The other options mentioned are also good, why not test fire a few?

Wreck-n-Crew · April 17, 2013, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Mind of I recommend a Sig not overpriced? The 2022 in 9mm. $400 and change.

Just low capacity right? and i have them starting @ $500 price rang but if low capacity, changes category i was attempting to reference.

If price were no issue I would have sig right there, great guns.

LED · April 17, 2013, 10:49 PM

If you mean mag capacity, it is 15.

BigJimP · April 18, 2013, 01:55 PM

Yes, I think the reputation of the Sig 226 is solid today ...and has been over the years.

( I'm not a Glock fan ...don't know about their reliability except what I hear)
---------
But neither one is a real "top of the line" gun in my view.

Ben Dover · April 18, 2013, 07:03 PM

How could one get more "top of the line" than a SIg 226??

If there's a better pistol, I've not seen it.

ClydeFrog · April 18, 2013, 07:26 PM

To answer the ? of post #9, I am aware of the Glock after-market plugs & doo-dads,

.
I posted this data in many, many Glock topics/TFL questions about Glock parts/after-market add-ons.

I'm partial to the plug with the Glock tool built in. That's handy.
I just feel the hollow slot grip is less than ideal on a carry/duty pistol.
Of the two models, I think the SIG Classic/P series have far better ergonomics.

The only better grip, IMO is the 3rd gen line of curved style S&W pistols(4506, 5906, 4006, etc) of the 1980s/early 1990s. These firearms are no longer around.

ClydeFrog

Wreck-n-Crew · April 18, 2013, 07:30 PM

Quote:

If you mean mag capacity, it is 15

. Well thanks....I have only seen the 10+1.

6.8 · May 2, 2013, 04:38 AM

I would like to put my 2 cents in. Their is a line of guns superior to the sig pistols and yes they still manufacture these guns. They are the Smith and Wesson TSW line of pistols. In fact Smith still manufactures numerous steel/metal framed 3rd gen pistols ( I guess you could call the newest TSW guns with the integral rail a gen 4) 5906 / 6906 / 4006 / 4566 and various other guns are still produced for sale world wide. The current CHP issue gun is a 4006TSW. Unfortunately these guns are not available new to the general public. They are sold, Primarily, to military and LEO's All over the world. Despite S&W trying to get these customers to switch to M&P's The demand for these guns remains high for both the standard and TSW variants. I have Friends with Sig pistols and after shooting and comparing the build quality "almost" all will admit the TSW's are superior. Haven't you ever wondered why there seems to be a never ending supply of these Guns on the secondary/used market ?

. Buy one for yourself, (especially A TSW variant) then decide who builds the best service pistol.

Fishbed77 · May 2, 2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

How could one get more "top of the line" than a SIg 226??

If there's a better pistol, I've not seen it.

Well, you're asking for it here.

Just talking DA/SA guns off the top of my head - the Walther P99AS. Same build quality as the German SIGs (and better than the NH ones), better DA/SA trigger, and the slide rides on steel instead of aluminum. Better ergonomics for most hands, and lighter weight. Also costs $300 less.

loose_holster_dan · May 2, 2013, 11:30 AM

sig yes. glock no.

Gaerek · May 2, 2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Mind of I recommend a Sig not overpriced? The 2022 in 9mm. $400 and change. Same range as your favorites.

I always have to say this, because it's worth noting. This gun only comes with one mag. And magazines for this thing cost in the $40 range. You can buy a Glock, with three mags for $500. Or a Sig 2022 with 3 mags for $480. Want 5 mags for each? Glock is at $560, and Sig is at $560.

It's a good gun. My wife has one, and she really like it. I don't particularly like it, but I'm not a fan of SA/DA triggers...and the 2022 has one of the worst I've ever felt. You really do get what you pay for with a P226/9.

Quote:

I just never cared for the Glock frame open slot behind the loaded magazine.
I think Gaston Glock wanted a space for sand, grit, snow, dirt, etc to slide out with ease but I think it just allows more crud to mess up the ammunition or mag.

I always thought the slot behind the mag was strange. I'd heard it was so gunk would slide out...but that made no sense at all. It wasn't until I took a defensive handgun class that I figured out what it was for (or at least one really nice reason it's there). In a double feed, you will have to strip the mag out, and with the rounds stacked up like they are in a double feed, there's a BUNCH of tension on the mag. Yep, you could lock the slide back, but that's an extra un-needed step. With that little hole, you can get your thumb in there under the mag for better purchase to strip the mag free. When we were practicing double feed malfunctions, I was the only one of 6 people with a Glock, and I could beat everyone at clearing it...usually by a factor of at least a second or two.

I've never had a problem with the hole. Carrying it, lint and dirt can work their way up there, but with regular cleaning it's not really a big deal. A shot of canned or compressed air with the gun field stripped is enough to keep it clean.

Quote:

I have heard some complaints about some of the newer guns that used to set the standard for reliability. My question is: Do you think these two guns are still top of the line and/or as good as their reputation? Glock 19 (Gen4) and Sig 226 (current, non-German made).

Both are high quality, and highly reliable. It's hard to gauge who's the best. Pretty much any gun made by a reputable company will have comparable reliability. Glock appears to have fixed the brass to the face issue with the Gen 4's, as I'm seeing it a lot less lately. And usually when I do see it, it's on earlier Gen 4 guns that haven't been updated.

James K · May 2, 2013, 11:58 AM

The figures are my WAGs but I would say that, given a decent quality pistol, 70% of the failures are due to ammo, 29+% to bad magazines, and far less than 1% to the gun. I have to wonder why we think we can buy or handload ammunition with weird bullet shapes that the gun maker never heard of, and then expect that the gun should function flawlessly with them. If we stick to common commercial loads or reasonable reloads, any quality auto pistol should be totally reliable.

Jim

thinktwice · May 29, 2013, 05:05 AM

I own Sig's and Glocks. Never a malfunction from either. However my EDC gun is my Glock 30. At times I will switch and carry my Sig P-239. I think the newer ones are just as reliable as any of the older ones. Just my opinion.

tristar viper · May 29, 2013, 01:40 PM

I hear of too many malfunctions with the gen 4 Glocks (especially 9mm) to believe they're as reliable as they once were. So when I go to buy a G23, it's gonna be a gen 3.
Actually I don't think questioning if they are as "reliable" is the right word. The gen 4 seems to just be more "problematic" than previous versions. Neither one is unreliable.

Skans · May 30, 2013, 02:35 PM

Glock will probably be on Gen 13 by the time my old 2-pin Glock wears out. Probably won't look or work that much differently than my 2-pin G17 either.

SpareMag · May 31, 2013, 08:38 AM

Wreck,

Look at used Sigs. All mine are, and all work wonderfully. At an LGS, you can get a used Sig for just over half of what a new Sig costs. Someday I may be able to afford a new Sig, and that would be a treat, but not with this week's pay... <sigh>

Oh, Sig also has a CPO - Certified Pre-Owned program. No nothing about the CPO aside from what is on the Sig site.

Tactical Jackalope · May 31, 2013, 10:44 AM

Two of my favorite guns! I carried the SIG P226 for 3 years. I carry the Glock 19 now. They're both immaculate guns. Love them both. If someone is too on sided, I wouldn't personally take their comment to heart. More like with a grain of salt.

Their both very different guns. As far as material and mechanism. That's just personal preference. I've trained with those two guns the most and they haven't done anything out of the ordinary. Great guns!

April 17, 2013, 10:41 AM	#1
odugrad Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2013 Location: The East Coast Posts: 477	Still as reliable I have heard some complaints about some of the newer guns that used to set the standard for reliability. My question is: Do you think these two guns are still top of the line and/or as good as their reputation? Glock 19 (Gen4) and Sig 226 (current, non-German made).

April 17, 2013, 08:18 PM	#8
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	Hell & Back?... If you are a NRA member or can access the online/web versions of NRA magazine articles you can see a recent(2011) story about former SAS commando & counter-terrorist expert Andy McNab discuss the merits & T&Es of SAS issue P226s & P228s/P229s. He said the spec ops guys in the 22nd Regiment & the elite SBS(special boat squadron; the UK version of SEALs/SWCC) loved SIG Sauer pistols. McNab also stated the SIG models held up better in combat & hard use then the Glock sidearms. I've heard the newer made US SIG-Sauer pistols(P or Classic series) are not as high quality as the 1980s/1990s line but SIG-Sauer did a total re-structure of the top floor execs in the USA so that may change a lot. Glocks, the 4th Gen; RTF-02 pistols had many problems but the execs & engineers worked out a lot of the bugs & problems. I'd feel safe with a Gen04 Glock as a left-handed gunner but I'd add a Hogue rubber sleeve or add-on. FWIW: Many armed professionals prefer the older Glock Gen 03 but I say either is okay in 2013. I just never cared for the Glock frame open slot behind the loaded magazine. I think Gaston Glock wanted a space for sand, grit, snow, dirt, etc to slide out with ease but I think it just allows more crud to mess up the ammunition or mag.

April 18, 2013, 07:26 PM	#14
ClydeFrog Junior member Join Date: May 1, 2010 Posts: 5,797	Reply to post #9... To answer the ? of post #9, I am aware of the Glock after-market plugs & doo-dads, . I posted this data in many, many Glock topics/TFL questions about Glock parts/after-market add-ons. I'm partial to the plug with the Glock tool built in. That's handy. I just feel the hollow slot grip is less than ideal on a carry/duty pistol. Of the two models, I think the SIG Classic/P series have far better ergonomics. The only better grip, IMO is the 3rd gen line of curved style S&W pistols(4506, 5906, 4006, etc) of the 1980s/early 1990s. These firearms are no longer around. ClydeFrog

April 17, 2013, 11:48 AM	#2
LED Junior member Join Date: March 10, 2013 Location: The Heartland Posts: 174	I believe they are as good as before. I have not personally watched and compared over the last 30 years. But both are still winning department and Goverment contracts. Most of the flak comes from the Internet where people complain about everything else in the world. P.S. I have owned both at one time or another. Sig Sauer still manufactures some 226s in Germany. Which is unlikely to make any difference today as compared to the New Hampshire factory. Just recently I learned that some Glocks are also (quietly) made in the U.S. Absolutely identical.

April 17, 2013, 12:23 PM	#3
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	I own and carry a SIG-Sauer P226 and a P239. I also own and shoot four Glocks, Models 17,20,21, and 22. They are among the most reliable pistols ever made.

April 17, 2013, 01:19 PM	#4
temmi Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 531	I think the Sig is I never thought the Glock was poor... But Not Top of the Line Snake

April 17, 2013, 02:09 PM	#5
JHansenAK47 Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2011 Posts: 196	I hear about these unreliable SIGs and GEN 4 Glocks but have yet to see one that wasn't reliable.

April 17, 2013, 04:24 PM	#6
Wreck-n-Crew Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,820	My problem with them both is price. There are a few guns i can have that fit just as well, sometimes better,shoot just as well, as reliable and in some cases look better than the G19 and the Sig226. The sig for me is just to overpriced for me. I like the guns but they are a few hundred dollars higher than what they should be. For those reasons i favor the Ruger sr9/40, the M&P and the Xd's. I like the sr9 for function and value. The M&P...look, function and Value and Feel or form. The Xd for form, look, look, function and sights (kind of a function).

April 17, 2013, 05:05 PM	#7
LED Junior member Join Date: March 10, 2013 Location: The Heartland Posts: 174	Mind of I recommend a Sig not overpriced? The 2022 in 9mm. $400 and change. Same range as your favorites.

April 17, 2013, 10:49 PM	#11
LED Junior member Join Date: March 10, 2013 Location: The Heartland Posts: 174	If you mean mag capacity, it is 15.

April 18, 2013, 01:55 PM	#12
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Yes, I think the reputation of the Sig 226 is solid today ...and has been over the years. ( I'm not a Glock fan ...don't know about their reliability except what I hear) --------- But neither one is a real "top of the line" gun in my view.

April 18, 2013, 07:03 PM	#13
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	How could one get more "top of the line" than a SIg 226?? If there's a better pistol, I've not seen it.

May 2, 2013, 04:38 AM	#16
6.8 Junior member Join Date: February 21, 2013 Posts: 316	I would like to put my 2 cents in. Their is a line of guns superior to the sig pistols and yes they still manufacture these guns. They are the Smith and Wesson TSW line of pistols. In fact Smith still manufactures numerous steel/metal framed 3rd gen pistols ( I guess you could call the newest TSW guns with the integral rail a gen 4) 5906 / 6906 / 4006 / 4566 and various other guns are still produced for sale world wide. The current CHP issue gun is a 4006TSW. Unfortunately these guns are not available new to the general public. They are sold, Primarily, to military and LEO's All over the world. Despite S&W trying to get these customers to switch to M&P's The demand for these guns remains high for both the standard and TSW variants. I have Friends with Sig pistols and after shooting and comparing the build quality "almost" all will admit the TSW's are superior. Haven't you ever wondered why there seems to be a never ending supply of these Guns on the secondary/used market ? . Buy one for yourself, (especially A TSW variant) then decide who builds the best service pistol.

May 2, 2013, 11:30 AM	#18
loose_holster_dan Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2011 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 2,461	sig yes. glock no.

May 2, 2013, 11:58 AM	#20
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The figures are my WAGs but I would say that, given a decent quality pistol, 70% of the failures are due to ammo, 29+% to bad magazines, and far less than 1% to the gun. I have to wonder why we think we can buy or handload ammunition with weird bullet shapes that the gun maker never heard of, and then expect that the gun should function flawlessly with them. If we stick to common commercial loads or reasonable reloads, any quality auto pistol should be totally reliable. Jim

May 29, 2013, 05:05 AM	#21
thinktwice Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2007 Posts: 293	I own Sig's and Glocks. Never a malfunction from either. However my EDC gun is my Glock 30. At times I will switch and carry my Sig P-239. I think the newer ones are just as reliable as any of the older ones. Just my opinion.

May 29, 2013, 01:40 PM	#22
tristar viper Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 889	I hear of too many malfunctions with the gen 4 Glocks (especially 9mm) to believe they're as reliable as they once were. So when I go to buy a G23, it's gonna be a gen 3. Actually I don't think questioning if they are as "reliable" is the right word. The gen 4 seems to just be more "problematic" than previous versions. Neither one is unreliable.

May 30, 2013, 02:35 PM	#23
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,332	Glock will probably be on Gen 13 by the time my old 2-pin Glock wears out. Probably won't look or work that much differently than my 2-pin G17 either.

May 31, 2013, 08:38 AM	#24
SpareMag Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2012 Posts: 514	Wreck, Look at used Sigs. All mine are, and all work wonderfully. At an LGS, you can get a used Sig for just over half of what a new Sig costs. Someday I may be able to afford a new Sig, and that would be a treat, but not with this week's pay... <sigh> Oh, Sig also has a CPO - Certified Pre-Owned program. No nothing about the CPO aside from what is on the Sig site.

May 31, 2013, 10:44 AM	#25
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,462	Two of my favorite guns! I carried the SIG P226 for 3 years. I carry the Glock 19 now. They're both immaculate guns. Love them both. If someone is too on sided, I wouldn't personally take their comment to heart. More like with a grain of salt. Their both very different guns. As far as material and mechanism. That's just personal preference. I've trained with those two guns the most and they haven't done anything out of the ordinary. Great guns!