AR Side Charging Mod was a success.

[TITAN308]

The machine shop I work with had never done this type of modification before. I sent them a bunch of info and pictures to show it was quite easy and the BCG was only case hardened. I told them they could offer this as additional service and make some money and I would be happy to send up two upper assembles for them to use as lab rats.

Sent me these pics a bit ago, should be shipping back soon:

[Kimio]

Pics a red x'd

[TITAN308]

I see them just fine.

[UtopiaTexasG19]

Pics good from here!

[jason41987]

so what will you do about the cut out for the old charging handle?

[RamItOne]

I posted a similar setup a month or so ago. Thought it was cool till someone brought up taking down the rifle. Does the grip screw in? How long will it take to vibrate loose?

[TimW77]

"AR Side Charging Mod was a success."

Is this supposed to be something new and never done before?
A side charging handle for the AR has been available for years is NOT new.
They are available modified or buy them already made that way.

T.

[TITAN308]

so what will you do about the cut out for the old charging handle?

Nothing, it just sits there.

I posted a similar setup a month or so ago. Thought it was cool till someone brought up taking down the rifle.

Wait, you mean someone actually thinks the handle is is permanently attached? My advice would be to take their opinion with a grain of salt, clearly that are a bit clueless about the mod.

Does the grip screw in? How long will it take to vibrate loose?

Yes it screws in. No it won't vibrate loose. Well I suppose if the person who does your machining work stinks at their elected skill set. Then there is a dab or two of locktite as safety net.

Is this supposed to be something new and never done before?

Did I say that?

A side charging handle for the AR has been available for years is NOT new.

Thank you for that completely irrelevant history lesson.

They are available modified or buy them already made that way.

And retro-modding an existing BCG/Receiver is a ton cheaper than buying the pre-created .308 models. Two units modified cost me 1/5th the price.

[jason41987]

many rifles with a side charging handle like that have some mechanism to detach the charging handle for takedown, its not uncommon for a rifle to have it detach

[impalacustom]

You might want to try to either put a hex or something on the handle as you will find that it does come loose by just hand tightening.

[TITAN308]

It is not in the picture, but there is a hole for a hex wrench on the underside to tighten it.

[80viking]

Looks good.

I've been thinking of doing that to my bull barrel AR for a while now.

[Eghad]

Sig has been using a side charging handle for years. So this one should work just fine also.

[HKFan9]

So you purposely gave your AR-15 one of the major down falls of the m1a and AK (having to remove your hand from the fire controls to rack the bolt) for what reason exactly.

Sure the ar-15 charging handle isnt ideal.. that's why companies make uppers with left side charging handles. However, even with doing the reach over or reach around to operate the AK style bolt, its still slower then being able to sling shot the T handle on an AR-15 with your reaction hand. Unless your lefty of course.

Time matters to those in the service or those shooting competition.. even if were talking fractions of a second, but it all adds up.

I am glad you set up your gun they way you wanted it, and I am not meaning to bash, I just don't see the benefit of it, unless your a lefty.

[TITAN308]

I'm not even sure how to respond to the tactical over analyzing anymore.

Not every rifle is for defending, killing, or shooting for points.

What is with all the Debbie downers.

[CLC]

How easy do you think it will be to get the charging handle out once you get the gun hot and running? I like the idea just wondering if it will gum up. How much did this set you back?

[HKFan9]

I'm not even sure how to respond to the tactical over analyzing anymore.

Not every rifle is for defending, killing, or shooting for points.

What is with all the Debbie downers.

Your right... but if the rifle was designed to be used casually... why spend the money worrying about where the charging handle is instead of just buying more ammo/mags/ or an optic to enjoy it more?

Generally speaking when people start modifying guns, even if not for warfare but for competition or personal enjoyment... it is to IMPROVE the function/performance/design of the original state. To me your modification, went backwards.

Like I said, not trying to bash on you or being a "Debbie Downer" but just trying to understand the logic that went into it.

[TITAN308]

Your right... but if the rifle was designed to be used casually... why spend the money worrying about where the charging handle is instead of just buying more ammo/mags/ or an optic to enjoy it more?

Why do you care what other people do with their money?

Do you know how much ammo / mags / optics I have?

Generally speaking when people start modifying guns, even if not for warfare but for competition or personal enjoyment... it is to IMPROVE the function/performance/design of the original state. To me your modification, went backwards.

"To me your modification is backwards," is just that. Your opinion. That does not mean your opinion is fact in every situation.

Charging from the side is a matter of preference and ease depending on the optics setup/size.

The right side was done because it was an easier test of abilities to machine it properly. But in all honesty the whole left side/right side is pointless to me.

My rifle. My preference. I don't question people at the range for their particular equipment. Its considered rude and snobby. Sadly the internet takes away the whole face to face interaction and behavior normally kept in check then becomes the norm.

Like I said, not trying to bash on you or being a "Debbie Downer" but just trying to understand the logic that went into it.

This is like me kicking you in the shin and saying, "Really, I'm not kicking you in the shin. Honestly."

Come on people, its for fun, something new I have not had done to a rifle yet. Would you prefer I posted a battle ready AR-10 in the same old magpul gear you've seen 5,000 times now from other people?

If you find this much issue in a side charging handle I would warn you not to check out some of the products we make for these rifles. You'd probably have a heart attack.

[TITAN308]

And as an added note I should have mentioned before. These rifles use adjustable gas blocks.

I can effectively shut the gas off and turn them into single shot rifles. While they do not lock as solid as a standard bolt rifle, the benefits are there regardless.

[HKFan9]

Sounds to me like it is some what difficult for you to take constructive criticism or be questioned on your approach. I would ask the same questions in real life face to face, gun range or gun counter. I feel like they were valid questions.

It's pretty well known that side cocking on the right is pretty out dated design wise. Most rifles designed now either adopted the T handle.. or some form of left cocking with an ambidextrous option. You went through the trouble of the research and design and getting the work done, which is a great thing, it looks like it was done right, but I would think more practical if you had it done to the opposite side of the receive, such as other companies have done in the past.

It is not really my opinion that side cocking is slower or less desirable, any time your removing your firing hand from the controls is down time, sure some people might prefer it, but stating its my opinion isn't exactly accurate.

I am sorry you felt attacked, but really if you can't take criticism, or be questioned on your reasoning behind it, and have to revert to calling people childish names such as negative nancy, I don't exactly think posting about the idea on the internet might be the right thing for you to do.

Say I was an interested customer in your modification... and I asked what benefits I would receive from paying for the labor to have you modify my personal firearm... is your explanation going to be... "because that's how we did it, that's what you will get, if you don't like it your just a debbie downer."

I don't think that business model would go really far.

[TITAN308]

Why do people like to use the phrase "can't accept constructive criticism" when confronted on their not so subtle underlying tones.

Primarily because that would constitute asking for it. I don't recall asking for it.

No rather, just like some other people I've encountered here you felt the need to press what you believe to be "proper" into the conversation when no one asked for it. And then when confronted about it, fall back on the catch all net of constructive criticism.

It reminds me of people who say bluntly, "This is so stupid to do that" and then when confronted on their rudeness they too like to pull the "Well if you can't take criticism then don't post it."

Or the even funnier part is you give them criticism, over their criticism, and they get all pumped up and flustered, "Wah-wha? You can't do that!"

Benefits are like price tags.

Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Benefits are only as good as the person they benefit.

Your wallet is not my wallet. What I see as a benefit is not what you see as a benefit.

And the handful of PMs commenting on this thread seem to confirm my own train of thought. Here is my "criticism" for you. You came off as a snobby know-it-all. Don't take this as being angry or foaming - I'm just letting you know how myself and others apparently view these types of posting.

Someone shared something they enjoy and you have to come in and be that guy who tries to bring a dark rain cloud over what should have been a generic, "Oh hey cool" or "Nice, but not for me" type conversations.

No one likes it when Tactical Bob jumps into a conversation.

- D

[RamItOne]

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=486735

[TITAN308]

Good god, $500.00?

I can safely say I did two Receivers/BCGs and handle included far below that.

Hell I know of another company besides my machine shop that will do the mod for $95 per unit.

Nice to see someone pointed out the large optics issue with the rear charging handle, that is one of my problems. Chubby digits + large optics = PITA to charge from the rear.

Edit: Not to mention I can now use cheek risers that normally cannot be used with rear charging handles.

[HKFan9]

So what your saying is you still cant come up with a benefit to this particular modification?

I can careless as to what you or people think about me when asking a valid question. I think asking critical thinking questions is a pretty important aspect in life but I guess some people are not so interested in thinking critically for themselves.

Funniest part is if you checked your old forum posts when you first came out with your chassis system idea I supported you guys and said it was pretty cool. Maybe not something I would personally need but least when confronted with questions about it you had legitimate and valid reasons for backing up your design.

That project, though not meant for the masses, is actually tangible in its benefits and you defended it as such against people asking "why in the hell?"

Though when I ask the same type of questions on this mod, your reply's just seem to be more of the "hey we spent the money doing it, if you don't like it, go somewhere else."

I actually supported your cause until you just showed a pretty immature attitude when being confronted with a question on a design. It wasn't meant to be a popularity contest, but I would think most consumers would want to know what they would be getting for X amount of dollars, because with your website, you end idea would be to sell this modification, not just do it for yourself.

[TITAN308]

Edit: You know what, this could go on. I retracted my post and will just leave it at this:


- Easier to charge with over sized optics or optics that don't have proper eye relief and require rearward seating.

- Those using adjustable gas blocks can convert their semi-auto into a single shot loader. Bit helpful on accuracy and also required with slightly over sized cartridges that will not feed reliably from a magazine or will not fit.

- Technically it provides a better Forward Assist. (though I rarely buy rifles with these as they seem pointless to me personally)

- Expands the availability of risers on the market that could not normally be used because of rear handle clearance.

- Younger people can charge the AR easier in my personal opinion with this. Young kids don't have a lot of finger strength, but that can grab the handle and work it better.

Just a handful of already mentioned uses.