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Old July 22, 2012, 10:18 AM   #1
jason_iowa
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offensive terms

I see someone started a "what is an assault rifle" thread but my question goes in a bit different direction.

I see many people take offense to some terminology when it comes to firearms such as.

High powered
Assault rifles
Assault pistols - I believe this was used in the giffords shooting
Weapons
Automatic

And so on and so forth. There is no terminology that I personally find offensive. I have embraced assault rifle I find it to be a useful term. What terms do you find offensive and why?
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Old July 22, 2012, 10:32 AM   #2
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One of my pet peeves is when someone who should know better, i.e. the Ciief of Police for Aurora Colorado uses the term "clip" over and over. I know he came from New York City, but that is no excuse. I believe he may think "clip" is "worse" than accurate term magazine, but sadly, I don't think he knows the difference and he is the chief.
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Old July 22, 2012, 10:44 AM   #3
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What's wrong with clip?
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Old July 22, 2012, 10:58 AM   #4
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Duck and cover - here it comes...

The old clip/magazine diatribe!
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Old July 22, 2012, 10:58 AM   #5
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Google "clip vs magazine" and you'll find out more than you ever wanted to know.

I don't think I'm "offended" by any terms, per se, but it does bother me when reporters/activists/politicians talk about the "gun show 'loophole'", as if gun show patrons conducting private face-to-face sales are somehow subverting the law or using legal trickery to do something that would otherwise be illegal.

If a state allows private firearm sales between individuals without requiring a background check and/or the assistance of an FFL, then that's the law. It makes no difference whether the sale takes place at a gun show, a private residence, or the parking lot at the mall.
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Old July 22, 2012, 11:03 AM   #6
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Not always what you say but how you say it !!!

Not only the term but how the media uses these terms, in a irresponsible manner. As an example and your review;

A few years back, one of our local TV news reported that an Illinoise man, has committed suicide with a "semi-automatic" handgun..... ...

What was the point; that he could have done this more than once or sprayed bullets all over the place. ....
I don't mean to be incensitive and did pray for his family.

Be Safe !!!
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Old July 22, 2012, 11:04 AM   #7
Sparks1957
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It's not the terms that I find offensive, it's the distortion of facts to support an agenda that bothers me.

The "gun show loophole" is a great example; something that is legal but pitched by the media as if someone is getting away with a criminal act
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Old July 22, 2012, 11:14 AM   #8
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Assault pistols - I believe this was used in the giffords shooting
The actual term used was assault clips. Look how angry that guy is.

Yes, the disortions are annoying (and they're intentional), but they don't have the power in the public consciousness they did, say, 15 years ago.
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Old July 22, 2012, 11:31 AM   #9
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Oh ya the gun show loophole is one that gets me too. Not because of the term but because its just a distortion of the truth. A felon buying a gun is breaking the law no matter where he buys it and is doing it intentionally and he should be punished for that.

Although when it comes to distorting the truth the NRA is as guilty of that as anyone. We have the constitution on our side do we need to use lies and fear too?
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Old July 22, 2012, 11:56 AM   #10
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Well, be a psychologist and listen to some of the TV shrinks. I saw a big deal PROFILER totally blow the standards for insanity out of his nose.

Saw one good guy on CNN who was a relative of a staff member and not a PR seeking clown.

I do get mad about those who claim the AWB totally banned sales of ARs and reduced crime. Duh, big reports in the scientific crime lit. Never happened.
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Old July 22, 2012, 12:40 PM   #11
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It is bothersome when folks don't use the proper terms, but in many cases in dealing with the news or people in public, many of the distinctions that come from proper term usage is meaningless in the grand scheme of what is being said, but that is only because the level of understanding of the general public isn't to the level where the distinctions are significant.

Reporters get a lot of things wrong, and not just with guns. However, we are quick to blame them and refer to them as the liberal media if they use terminology that we don't like, but as if often the case, the media is going by what the police have told them when it comes to firearms information. When the report what nuclear scientists have said about nuclear power plant problems, the same thing occur. The reporters are no more of nuclear physicists than I am and haven't the background to second guess or challenge what they are being told by an expert or something who should be in the know on a given topic.

We have had several threads here where it has been expressed that the police, media, etc. are hyping negative aspects of firearms and doing it intentionally by misrepresenting them when in fact, the representation was accurate, only the forum members didn't know the difference or who didn't like the terminology because they thought it sounded bad though it was 100% accurate. We apparently get angry when the media uses incorrect terminology and we get mad when they use the correct terminology but we don't like it.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...tomatic+pistol
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...tomatic+pistol
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...tomatic+pistol

The misunderstanding of 'automatic' is one of my pet peeves, but we get shooters here that do clip/mag thing (as noted), who call cartridges "bullets," propellant as explosive, ballistic vests as bulletproof vests, pepper spray as mace, etc. We have lifelong hunters who think javelina are pigs, that rabbits are rodents, and call anters horns. Far too frequently we have posts where people have stated that their house, car, business, etc. got robbed when nobody was there, but they weren't robbed. They were burgled.

It is strange to hear people argue that they don't like it when the media actually uses correct terminology but who also complain when they use incorrect terminology. Pahoo's post is an excellent example of this...

Quote:
Not only the term but how the media uses these terms, in a irresponsible manner. As an example and your review;

A few years back, one of our local TV news reported that an Illinoise man, has committed suicide with a "semi-automatic" handgun..... ...

What was the point; that he could have done this more than once or sprayed bullets all over the place. ....
I don't mean to be incensitive and did pray for his family.
So the media properly identified the suicide weapon as being a semi-automatic gun, but pahoo thinks using the proper terminology is irresponsible. He didn't like proper detail being used because it could make things sound worse apparently. However at the same time, we don't like it when the media doesn't report enough details that we think are critical, going as far as referring to it as journalistic malpractice and typical stupid reporting.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...+investigation

We have had people here called out on the misuse of terminology who who buttress themselves with the argument of "Well you know what I meant." In other words, incorrect terminology is fine when it suits us. However, my favorite all time cover argument for misuse of terminology is, "Well, that is just semantics!" Funny thing, you can't have language without semantics and so discounting another person's word use critique as being 'just semantics' is rather nonsensical since the conveyance of information properly is all semantics.
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Old July 22, 2012, 02:15 PM   #12
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Quote:
High powered
Assault rifles
Assault pistols - I believe this was used in the giffords shooting
Weapons
Automatic
With one exception, I don't find those terms offensive so long as they're properly applied. However, they're too often improperly applied in order to provoke an emotional reaction from the uninformed.

High powered is a term that I most often see applied to rifles. The problem with this term is that is too vauge. I, personally, would consider a high-powered rifle to be something of the full-power battle rifle class cartridge like 7.62x51 NATO or larger to be a "high-powered" rifle as they posess substantially more power than an intermediate rifle cartridge such as 5.56 NATO, 7.62x39, 5.45x39, or 7.92x33 or a small-caliber rifle like .22 Long Rifle, .22 WMR, or .17 HMR. Unfortunately, "high powered" is used by the media indiscriminately to make guns sound particularly deadly.

Assault Rifle is a clearly defined term which means a rifle firing an intermediate cartridge that has full-auto or burst-fire capability. Unfortunately, the media has chosen to broadly apply this term to anything that looks remotely like a true assault rifle because the term sounds scary.

Assault Pistol is the only term from that list that I wish were completely removed from the vernacular. It is a completely fabricated term used in attempts to lump semi-automatic handguns into the same class as assault rifles and is nothing more than a product of media-fueled fear mongering.

Weapon is simply a word for any tool used to cause injury to a person or animal. Many objects can be and are used as weapons besides firearms. Knives, spears, clubs, slingshots, axes, hatchets, and rocks can all be weapons if used a certain way.

Automatic is another term that's been twisted and manipulated for the purpose of fear mongering. By definition, an automatic firearm is one which uses the impulse of recoil, propellant gas, or other non-manually operated means to cycle its action and make another cartridge ready for firing. There are two types of automatic firearms: semi-automatic and fully automatic. Over the years, it has become common and accepted practice to refer to fully automatic firearms simply as "automatic" while semi-automatics are differentiated by their prefix. Unfortunately, one of the media's favorite fear mongering tricks is to attach pictures or video of fully automatic firearms to news stories pertaining to semi-automatics thus confusing the populace about the difference. Likewise, the media seems to love referring to any firearm that is not manually operated as simply "automatic" without bothering to differentiate between the two types.
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Old July 22, 2012, 02:36 PM   #13
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My biggest complaint is not the terms, it's inaccuarte use to the point of being misleading. For instance, the gun "went off by iteself", when it's obvious from the circumstances that somebody pulled the trigger and the gun worked as it was supposed to.
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Old July 22, 2012, 02:38 PM   #14
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"Wheel gun" When I read it I kinda cringe. If you don't look and dress like Gaby Hayes, please don't use that term.

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Old July 22, 2012, 03:50 PM   #15
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I always wince a bit is when reporters state that a gunman did this or that. Technically, I suppose it's correct, but I think of a gunman as someone who is proficient with firearms. Not just some yahoo who knocks off a gas station and happens to use a gun. By that logic, anyone who uses a knife in an assault should be called a "knifeman", and anyone who uses a blunt object to kill someone should be called a "blunt-objectman."

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Old July 22, 2012, 04:30 PM   #16
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+1 on wheelgun.

Bullets instead of cartridges or ammo.

Pistol describing a revolver.

Piece, rod, heat, heater, etc. What? Are we in an old gangster movie?

Nine instead of nine millimeter. Not sure why this bothers me. 380, 45, 357, and 38 don't annoy me at all.

But most of all, boolits. What are those, the things go in gunz? Sorry on this one if I offended anyone who does this just because they are not good at spelling.

Oh yes, I almost forgot cannon and pop gun.These don't really offend me. I just think they sound silly in reference to hand held firearms.

Also, my friend refers to 5.65mm (.223)instead of 5.56mm. For God's sake. He owns a Mini-14 and an AR15. I think I will start referring to my 42lr rifle and 19mm pistol. Sheesh.

Whippoorwill: "Gunman" sounds more ominous than "that idiot with a gun."
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Old July 22, 2012, 04:37 PM   #17
bakon
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As a police officer we use clip/magazine as interchangeable words. Most cops are not technically advanced to care about the difference. Police chiefs may come across as antigun but more cops are not. Wheel guns, my first couple years i had a wheel gun.
My point is we carry a gun/firearm everyday but are not gunsmiths. Just like said earlier, a scientist knows the terms for the field, everyone else uses what they know including police and news. When the average person hears revolver/firearm/ highpowered weedwacker, it makes no difference. Only the trained ear cares.

Last edited by bakon; July 22, 2012 at 04:45 PM.
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Old July 22, 2012, 04:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
But most of all, boolits. What are those, the things go in gunz? Sorry on this one if I offended anyone who does this just because they are not good at spelling.
It's not a spelling deficiency; the term has meaning to a small group of people. "Boolit" almost always refers to a cast bullet, usually one which the person has cast himself. Having a word for home-cast bullets can be useful in context to differentiate them from jacketed/plated bullets or from factory-made cast bullets. Sometimes, coining "unofficial" or non-English words can be useful and can increase clarity.

Quote:
Pistol describing a revolver.
This one is open to interpretation - the division of handguns into "revolvers" and "pistols" is a fairly recent development. If you look at the patent application for the first revolver, it's described as a pistol. Also, it's not incorrect to talk about "a nice pair of flintlock pistols." I think the general use of "pistol" to describe "a short firearm meant to be fired with one hand" is perfectly valid. If you want to be more specific, you can use "revolver", "semi-automatic", "derringer", etcetera to describe the operating mechanism.

Last edited by ScottRiqui; July 22, 2012 at 04:58 PM.
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Old July 22, 2012, 05:14 PM   #19
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Thanks Scott

Thanks for the info on boolits. I feel better about that now. The pistol reference has never bothered me a lot due to it being such a common thing.

One thing that does bother me is how I was chided in a TFL forum for referring to 45 long Colt instead of 45 Colt to differentiate between a 45 Colt cartridge or revolver and a 45acp autoloader made by the Colt company. In many gun websites I see 45lc. What does that mean?

Quote:
Sometimes, coining "unofficial" or non-English words can be useful and can increase clarity.
Sometimes not.
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Old July 22, 2012, 05:35 PM   #20
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There are two types of automatic firearms: semi-automatic and fully automatic. Over the years, it has become common and accepted practice to refer to fully automatic firearms simply as "automatic" while semi-automatics are differentiated by their prefix.
So what you are saying is that the common and accepted practice is okay as you see it, but you still find fault with the media for using the correct terminology when they do. In other words, when gun folk became lazy and dropped "fully" from "fully automatic" that was okay, but the press calling a gun "automatic" instead of "semi automatic" is wrong despite the fact that the press' description is accurate.

That is interesting. At the range where I used to shoot matches, they had two categories for handguns, "Autos" and "Revolvers." I should probably have a chat with the organizers about their transgression.
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Old July 22, 2012, 05:46 PM   #21
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One thing that does bother me is how I was chided in a TFL forum for referring to 45 long Colt instead of 45 Colt to differentiate between a 45 Colt cartridge or revolver and a 45acp autoloader made by the Colt company. In many gun websites I see 45lc. What does that mean?
There was never a .45 "Short" Colt, so the "Long" designation is unnecessary. The terms ".45 Colt" and ".45 ACP" are sufficient to differentiate between the two rounds you're talking about. But as you've noticed, that hasn't kept ".45 Long Colt" from gaining widespread acceptance anyway.

If someone chimes into a discussion for no other reason than to correct someone's terminology **when the context of the discussion makes the meaning of the word 100% clear**, then I think that falls under the latter category.

How would you feel if you went into Best Buy and asked to look at the Remington electric razors, and the clerk smugly replied "We don't have any of those - perhaps you mean Remington electric "shavers"?

Maybe he's an aficionado of barber's implements, maybe it's his consuming passion and he spends hours every day on the internet discussing razors and shavers with other like-minded folks. Maybe he's a stickler for clarity and correct terminology.

Last edited by Tom Servo; July 23, 2012 at 12:18 AM. Reason: If you're going to use the term "douchbaggery," at least endeavor to spell it right
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Old July 22, 2012, 05:52 PM   #22
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...........

Last edited by Rampant_Colt; July 23, 2012 at 11:24 AM. Reason: i've no dog in this fight
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Old July 22, 2012, 05:58 PM   #23
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"There was never a .45 "Short" Colt, so the "Long" designation is unnecessary."

I will for sure defer to Paco Kelly from leverguns.com:

"John Taffin, has been trying to change my position for decades....and John may be correct, as all of you may. But in this, I am unrepentant...why? Because among other reasons, I have a full box of 45 Short Colt ammo produced in 1883 and that got me to really investigate! Not Schofield...but “45 Short Colt” Ammunition.....(230 grain bullet/hollow base/28 grains B.P.) People back then called them LONG or SHORT Colts when making purchases......so do I today."
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Old July 22, 2012, 06:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
How would you feel if you went into Best Buy and asked to look at the Remington electric razors, and the clerk smugly replied "We don't have any of those - perhaps you mean Remington electric "shavers"?
I think I would probably tell the clerk "Oh, well I will go to a store that does have them."

As for the 45 long Colt issue, it is a very common term among folks who are not sticklers for for technical correctness. Most of the terms that have been mentioned in the above posts are also common for less technically minded folks. Growing up, everybody I knew referred to automatic rifles and automatic handguns. If we were talking about actual automatic firearms we would have said full auto. I had a (almost) full auto 22lr once when a firing pin broke on my sem-auto. It would fire several rounds in one burst.

The point is what is common terminology in not always correct terminology.
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Old July 22, 2012, 06:57 PM   #25
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Oh, I have lots of things that bother me. One of them is people's use of "1911." True, Colt made automatics for the army, which they, the army, called the Model of 1911 and later the "Pistol, automatic, Cal. 45, M1911." That's the designation right out of the manual, right after the M1911A1. Colt no longer lists one under that name, though they happily refer to the Model 1911. They do continue to have the Government Model chambered in .45 ACP. That stands for Automatic Colt Pistol. It's an automatic. Beware of imitations and patent infringements.

The British used to call their revolvers "Pistols, revolver." Their bases were covered, mostly.

I think gunman is a perfectly satisfactory word, if that's what he is. Gunner, of course, has a different meaning. However, one never hears pistolero any more, not where I live anyway. Maybe in the southwest it's still current. And I doubt anyone says gunslinger either. Sniper is suitable, too, if that's what he is, and we went through something with a pair of snipers a few years but they got caught.

The thing is, the words and expressions people use are what the language is, not what a select body of professors in goatees say it is. But English is, you know, just about the only language that has no "academy" to say what it is. So everyone's off the hook. Even today in the paper there was mention of a USO scare in Washington, DC, about 1952, but that's not what people called them then. The term was "flying saucer." Seen any lately?

Sometimes I suspect people of using highly technical terms when they don't want to be understood. No one here would do that, would they?
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