Smaller than a .22??

CombustibleLemon · May 22, 2012, 07:06 PM

So I broke down and got my ol lady the derringer she has been wanting for a while now. I told my cousin and he tells me he has an old .22 deringer so old it doesn't have any serial numbers. He brings it over and we go out back to go have some fun with our rim fire pocket pistols. Only problem is, his barrel is so small a .22 lr doesn't even fit! We tried to size the bullet against the muzzle and the bullet is too wide. So what is this? And how in the world would we find some ammo for it? And the last thing I want to know about this thing is how old it has to be to not have a serial #?

Gary L. Griffiths · May 22, 2012, 07:17 PM

Looks like an old 5mm rimfire.

Good thing the .22LR wouldn't fit. These were black powder guns, cheaply made even for the time. I shudder to think what a modern .22LR going off in one of them would do.

Can you say, "case blowback into the face"?

CombustibleLemon · May 22, 2012, 09:25 PM

So this thing shoots 5mm rimfire? I have never heard of 5mm rimfire cartridges. Do they even sell those anymore?

dab102999 · May 22, 2012, 09:57 PM

not at all trying to say anything about your judgment but if it was me I would pay to have a gunsmith go over that thing and see if it is shootable before I would ever buy ammo....and then I still don't know if I would shoot it.

CombustibleLemon · May 22, 2012, 10:24 PM

Yeah that is probably the only way to go dab. Better than my old trick when I was a kid of tying a string to the trigger and hiding behind a tree lol. But I mean if they don't make ammo we can buy off the shelf and shoot then the only option is custom or reloaded ammo. In which case I think the gun might just go back in the safe.... forever.

Gary L. Griffiths · May 22, 2012, 10:57 PM

Actually, IIRC Remington had a 5mm rimfire round for a short time, a number of years ago. THAT'S NOT THE ROUND I'M TALKING ABOUT!

Your pistol is what a used to be called a parlor pistol, designed for indoor shooting with a minimal backstop. They were popular around the end of the 19th Century.

Again, we're talking a low-powered BLACK POWDER cartridge, or one that didn't even contain powder -- the bullet was propelled by the primer alone, like the modern .22 CB Cap.

If you look at the pistol, you'll see that it has a relatively large, heavy hammer. That's because the inertia of the hammer hitting the base of the cartridge is all that keeps the cartridge case from flying back and hitting you in the face!

You have an interesting wall-hanger. Clean it, oil it, put some wax on it to preserve the finish, and do just that with it.

9mm · May 22, 2012, 11:52 PM

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM079-5.html $15 50rds

I wouldn't even shoot that thing, get it inspected.

micromontenegro · May 23, 2012, 02:57 PM

Not the 5mm Rem Mag!

Something like this: http://www.alfa-proj.cz/viewpic.php?...ig.jpg&model=-

Hawg · May 23, 2012, 03:09 PM

A buddy of mine once loaded .22 shorts into a .22 revolver made in the 1800's. Blew it into three major pieces and a lot of little ones.

CombustibleLemon · May 23, 2012, 08:09 PM

Ohhh yes I had heard about parlor pistols before and had forgotten about them until you mentioned them. Guess this little guy isn't going to get to play in the backyard lol. I appreciate your knowledge and thanks for your replies

James K · May 23, 2012, 08:32 PM

I think it is likely to be a 4mm center fire, but that can be determined by the position of the firing pin. Those cartridges were used for indoor practice in so-called "parlor pistols" like that one, and in conversion units for larger guns. They had no powder charge, the primer being enough to propel the tiny bullet out of the barrel. AFAIK, the ammunition is no longer available, but perhaps someone else knows of a source.

Jim

Kreyzhorse · May 23, 2012, 08:59 PM

Quote:

You have an interesting wall-hanger. Clean it, oil it, put some wax on it to preserve the finish...

Sound advice. Interesting piece, but I wouldn't bother trying to find ammo for it. Clean it up and you have a great wall hanger.

SDC · May 23, 2012, 09:12 PM

This is what is called a "Flobert saloon pistol", and probably chambered in 6mm Flobert (an earlier, much weaker version of the 22 rimfire). These were built mainly in Belgium (you should be able to see an "ELG" proof mark on it somewhere), but they don't even make the ammo for these anymore.

May 22, 2012, 07:17 PM	#2
Gary L. Griffiths Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Location: AZ, WA Posts: 1,469	Looks like an old 5mm rimfire. Good thing the .22LR wouldn't fit. These were black powder guns, cheaply made even for the time. I shudder to think what a modern .22LR going off in one of them would do. Can you say, "case blowback into the face"? __________________ Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own craven apathy; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the valor of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill)

May 22, 2012, 10:57 PM	#6
Gary L. Griffiths Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Location: AZ, WA Posts: 1,469	Actually, IIRC Remington had a 5mm rimfire round for a short time, a number of years ago. THAT'S NOT THE ROUND I'M TALKING ABOUT! Your pistol is what a used to be called a parlor pistol, designed for indoor shooting with a minimal backstop. They were popular around the end of the 19th Century. Again, we're talking a low-powered BLACK POWDER cartridge, or one that didn't even contain powder -- the bullet was propelled by the primer alone, like the modern .22 CB Cap. If you look at the pistol, you'll see that it has a relatively large, heavy hammer. That's because the inertia of the hammer hitting the base of the cartridge is all that keeps the cartridge case from flying back and hitting you in the face! You have an interesting wall-hanger. Clean it, oil it, put some wax on it to preserve the finish, and do just that with it. __________________ Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own craven apathy; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the valor of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill)

May 23, 2012, 09:12 PM	#13
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	This is what is called a "Flobert saloon pistol", and probably chambered in 6mm Flobert (an earlier, much weaker version of the 22 rimfire). These were built mainly in Belgium (you should be able to see an "ELG" proof mark on it somewhere), but they don't even make the ammo for these anymore. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

May 22, 2012, 09:25 PM	#3
CombustibleLemon Member Join Date: December 17, 2011 Posts: 61	So this thing shoots 5mm rimfire? I have never heard of 5mm rimfire cartridges. Do they even sell those anymore?

May 22, 2012, 09:57 PM	#4
dab102999 Member Join Date: April 12, 2012 Posts: 82	not at all trying to say anything about your judgment but if it was me I would pay to have a gunsmith go over that thing and see if it is shootable before I would ever buy ammo....and then I still don't know if I would shoot it.

May 22, 2012, 10:24 PM	#5
CombustibleLemon Member Join Date: December 17, 2011 Posts: 61	Yeah that is probably the only way to go dab. Better than my old trick when I was a kid of tying a string to the trigger and hiding behind a tree lol. But I mean if they don't make ammo we can buy off the shelf and shoot then the only option is custom or reloaded ammo. In which case I think the gun might just go back in the safe.... forever.

May 22, 2012, 11:52 PM	#7
9mm Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2011 Location: Land of the Free Posts: 2,834	http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM079-5.html $15 50rds I wouldn't even shoot that thing, get it inspected.

May 23, 2012, 02:57 PM	#8
micromontenegro Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2010 Posts: 671	Not the 5mm Rem Mag! Something like this: http://www.alfa-proj.cz/viewpic.php?...ig.jpg&model=-

May 23, 2012, 03:09 PM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,380	A buddy of mine once loaded .22 shorts into a .22 revolver made in the 1800's. Blew it into three major pieces and a lot of little ones.

May 23, 2012, 08:09 PM	#10
CombustibleLemon Member Join Date: December 17, 2011 Posts: 61	Ohhh yes I had heard about parlor pistols before and had forgotten about them until you mentioned them. Guess this little guy isn't going to get to play in the backyard lol. I appreciate your knowledge and thanks for your replies

May 23, 2012, 08:32 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I think it is likely to be a 4mm center fire, but that can be determined by the position of the firing pin. Those cartridges were used for indoor practice in so-called "parlor pistols" like that one, and in conversion units for larger guns. They had no powder charge, the primer being enough to propel the tiny bullet out of the barrel. AFAIK, the ammunition is no longer available, but perhaps someone else knows of a source. Jim