Elmer Keith style 357 mag lswc ?

rebs · August 31, 2012, 02:27 PM

Does anyone know where I can buy 158 ge Keith style lswc's ?
Or is there any other bullet that is accurate and also good for self defense ?
I want to use them in my 38 and 357 magnum.

steveno · August 31, 2012, 02:38 PM

Mt. Baldy Bullets makes the Keith bullet for 38 spec & 357 mag. I have shot some of them and they were pretty good in quality and how they shoot. 358429 is the Lyman number. you just have to be careful as to which gun you shoot them do to cylinder length. if crimped in the crimp groove they will be too long for a S & W "N" frame. I not sure how much of a problem this will be on other 357 magnum revolvers. the bullet was originally designed for the 38 special. to use the 357 mag case you would have to crimp over the front edge of the bullet in which case you might as well use a special case because the capcity would be about the same.

mehavey · August 31, 2012, 02:41 PM

If you want Keith 'style,' they're all over the place.

Try the PR357-158 from LeadHead for a bevel base version
https://secure25.securewebsession.co....com/order.htm

or the RCBS (82032) from Montana Bullet works for a plain base
http://montanabulletworks.com/357.html

AlaskaMike · August 31, 2012, 02:51 PM

Careful--since the true Keith bullet (Lyman #358429) is about 170 grains, it's nose is longer than than commercial 158 grain SWCs. In many revolvers this makes it too long when the case is crimped into the crimp groove.

In addition to the other 158 grain bullets mentioned, I'd add the Lasercast version. I currently cast my own using RCBS 38-150-KT, but I think they all work pretty much the same.

Mike

jmortimer · August 31, 2012, 03:01 PM

Why not just use a wadcutter? I know this is a broken record, but you have maximum meplat, inherent accuracy, low recoil, and fantastic straight line penetration. As far as hard cast bullets go for self-defense, there is nothing better.

603Country · August 31, 2012, 03:22 PM

To back up jmortimer, I'll repeat something that I've posted prior to this. In the past, when I would trap a bunch of hogs (big trap), I'd terminate them with the 22 LR normally. But, one day I went and got the 357 and earplugs and two boxes of bullets. One box was hot loads of 125 gr JHP and one box was moderate loads of Keith style lead bullets. I was blasting pigs with the JHP's and the pigs weren't dropping. I switched to the lead Keith bullets and the pigs went down much faster. That was a surprise, but that is certainly what I observed.

Paul B. · August 31, 2012, 08:04 PM

My choice of bullet is the Lyman #358156, a gas checked semi-wadcutter similar to the Keith bullet but normally is about 158-160 gr. in weight. I cast that one and the Lyman #358477 which is a 1505 gr. SWC. I load both over 14.0 gr. of Alliant #2400. The 158 gr, bullet is very accurate in my S&W M26 6".
aPul B.

GP100man · August 31, 2012, 09:28 PM

Alot of the so called Keith bullets really are`nt .

To be a true Keith bullet first it must be plain flat based ,second, all the driving bands are the same dia, third , 60% of total weight should be in front of the crimp groove .

Now lets get into what has happened in it`s evolution to satisfy the masses.
Bevel based, it is a design to help commercial casters first in actuall casting , the beveled starting edge fill almost always be filled out properly & it lets ya smear the bases a bit without affecting accuracy .

The front band has been shrunk to around .355" or so to ensure no troubles chambering ,as a true Keith would be .358" & will give trouble in a tite throated revolver.

Next is the weights, they`re from 150gr. to 175gr. to accomidate recoil/cyl length & don`t forget the caster ,he gets more bullets @ a pot of lead .

Next is a vastly overlooked fact ,Keith bullets have big square lube grooves ,but have been rounded for the ease of casting (most revolvers won`t run out of lube with round grooves)of those that buy ready to shoot lead bullets never give it a second thought of the amount of lube that`s there .

Last but not least here`s the reason for the length of the 358429 Mr. Keith designed it from his 429421 bullet & there both the same length !!

I`ve cast & shot a many a 1 !

Just a little research I`ve done over the yrs.

crowbeaner · September 2, 2012, 09:36 PM

All 3 of my Lyman 358429 moulds throw bullets between 168 and 175 grains depending on the alloy. What is written above about the nose length and the loaded length being too long for the short cylinder S&W is true. The M19/66 and the 586/686 have the longer cylinder that allows you to load the bullet out. Crimp heavily in the crimp groove to keep the bullets from inching out during recoil.
If you want a 158 grain Keith style bullet, I recommend the Saeco mould. I have a 4 cavity that shucks them out like peas. Sized to .358" and loaded over 14.5 of WW296/H110 and magnum primers, they shoot fine.
The hog hitting issue above reiterates what I found out years ago deer hunting with a 44 Redhawk; the jacketed bullets look racy, but the on game performance is lacking unless fired from a CARBINE length barrel. I lost a magnificent buck hit broadside at 40 yards with a 240 grain Nosler HP. He ran like a rabbit, and I looked for him for 3 days before giving up. I went back to hard lead and never lost another with the revolver. YMMV. CB.

Nosparetime · September 4, 2012, 02:24 AM

Just bought some from Badman Bullets. Was loading some today. I am quite impressed. I have used a lot of Laser-cast with great success.

I will be buying more from Badman Bullets.

August 31, 2012, 02:27 PM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Elmer Keith style 357 mag lswc ? Does anyone know where I can buy 158 ge Keith style lswc's ? Or is there any other bullet that is accurate and also good for self defense ? I want to use them in my 38 and 357 magnum.

August 31, 2012, 08:04 PM	#7
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,936	My choice of bullet is the Lyman #358156, a gas checked semi-wadcutter similar to the Keith bullet but normally is about 158-160 gr. in weight. I cast that one and the Lyman #358477 which is a 1505 gr. SWC. I load both over 14.0 gr. of Alliant #2400. The 158 gr, bullet is very accurate in my S&W M26 6". aPul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

August 31, 2012, 02:38 PM	#2
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	Mt. Baldy Bullets makes the Keith bullet for 38 spec & 357 mag. I have shot some of them and they were pretty good in quality and how they shoot. 358429 is the Lyman number. you just have to be careful as to which gun you shoot them do to cylinder length. if crimped in the crimp groove they will be too long for a S & W "N" frame. I not sure how much of a problem this will be on other 357 magnum revolvers. the bullet was originally designed for the 38 special. to use the 357 mag case you would have to crimp over the front edge of the bullet in which case you might as well use a special case because the capcity would be about the same.

August 31, 2012, 02:41 PM	#3
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 7,211	If you want Keith 'style,' they're all over the place. Try the PR357-158 from LeadHead for a bevel base version https://secure25.securewebsession.co....com/order.htm or the RCBS (82032) from Montana Bullet works for a plain base http://montanabulletworks.com/357.html

August 31, 2012, 02:51 PM	#4
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 947	Careful--since the true Keith bullet (Lyman #358429) is about 170 grains, it's nose is longer than than commercial 158 grain SWCs. In many revolvers this makes it too long when the case is crimped into the crimp groove. In addition to the other 158 grain bullets mentioned, I'd add the Lasercast version. I currently cast my own using RCBS 38-150-KT, but I think they all work pretty much the same. Mike

August 31, 2012, 03:01 PM	#5
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	Why not just use a wadcutter? I know this is a broken record, but you have maximum meplat, inherent accuracy, low recoil, and fantastic straight line penetration. As far as hard cast bullets go for self-defense, there is nothing better.

August 31, 2012, 03:22 PM	#6
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 4,039	To back up jmortimer, I'll repeat something that I've posted prior to this. In the past, when I would trap a bunch of hogs (big trap), I'd terminate them with the 22 LR normally. But, one day I went and got the 357 and earplugs and two boxes of bullets. One box was hot loads of 125 gr JHP and one box was moderate loads of Keith style lead bullets. I was blasting pigs with the JHP's and the pigs weren't dropping. I switched to the lead Keith bullets and the pigs went down much faster. That was a surprise, but that is certainly what I observed.

August 31, 2012, 09:28 PM	#8
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	Alot of the so called Keith bullets really are`nt . To be a true Keith bullet first it must be plain flat based ,second, all the driving bands are the same dia, third , 60% of total weight should be in front of the crimp groove . Now lets get into what has happened in it`s evolution to satisfy the masses. Bevel based, it is a design to help commercial casters first in actuall casting , the beveled starting edge fill almost always be filled out properly & it lets ya smear the bases a bit without affecting accuracy . The front band has been shrunk to around .355" or so to ensure no troubles chambering ,as a true Keith would be .358" & will give trouble in a tite throated revolver. Next is the weights, they`re from 150gr. to 175gr. to accomidate recoil/cyl length & don`t forget the caster ,he gets more bullets @ a pot of lead . Next is a vastly overlooked fact ,Keith bullets have big square lube grooves ,but have been rounded for the ease of casting (most revolvers won`t run out of lube with round grooves)of those that buy ready to shoot lead bullets never give it a second thought of the amount of lube that`s there . Last but not least here`s the reason for the length of the 358429 Mr. Keith designed it from his 429421 bullet & there both the same length !! I`ve cast & shot a many a 1 ! Just a little research I`ve done over the yrs.

September 2, 2012, 09:36 PM	#9
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	All 3 of my Lyman 358429 moulds throw bullets between 168 and 175 grains depending on the alloy. What is written above about the nose length and the loaded length being too long for the short cylinder S&W is true. The M19/66 and the 586/686 have the longer cylinder that allows you to load the bullet out. Crimp heavily in the crimp groove to keep the bullets from inching out during recoil. If you want a 158 grain Keith style bullet, I recommend the Saeco mould. I have a 4 cavity that shucks them out like peas. Sized to .358" and loaded over 14.5 of WW296/H110 and magnum primers, they shoot fine. The hog hitting issue above reiterates what I found out years ago deer hunting with a 44 Redhawk; the jacketed bullets look racy, but the on game performance is lacking unless fired from a CARBINE length barrel. I lost a magnificent buck hit broadside at 40 yards with a 240 grain Nosler HP. He ran like a rabbit, and I looked for him for 3 days before giving up. I went back to hard lead and never lost another with the revolver. YMMV. CB.

September 4, 2012, 02:24 AM	#10
Nosparetime Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 100	Just bought some from Badman Bullets. Was loading some today. I am quite impressed. I have used a lot of Laser-cast with great success. I will be buying more from Badman Bullets.