Seating .45ACP SWC's

frumious · February 1, 2011, 12:13 AM

I just received some cast lead bullets from Penn. They are 200gr .45ACP SWCBB's. They have a very sharp shoulder. I played around a little with seating depth trying to get them as long as possible and still feed. I tested a few batches, backing down the COAL from about 1.290 to 1.235 in .010 - .015 increments. Feeding performance has improved, and I am on what I think will be my last two batches - COAL 1.250 and 1.235.

They look sort of like this...the bullet shoulder sticks out just a little:

Tonight I was looking at the Penn bullets website and noticed he gives a recommended seating depth of 1.250. Dangit!! Should have read that page 150 rounds ago!! Until tonight I figured I'd end up seating them with the shoulder flush with the case mouth but according to the site they should work @ 1.250. We shall see.

The other part of the site's recommendation is a taper crimp of .469, as measured right at the case mouth. WOW!! .469 is TIGHT. That's going to make an impression in the bullet for sure. I'm crimping .473 right now. What do you guys think? I consider this like swaging the already-seated bullet. I switched from the Lee FCD to STOP this sort of thing.

So am I over-reacting? Will impressing the case with a .469 taper crimp be detrimental to accuracy? I am not too worried about pressure as I am using 5.0 grains of Bullseye...not a very stout load under a 200 grain bullet. Oh, and I am shooting them out of a Beretta PX4 Storm fullsize.

-cls

Sevens · February 1, 2011, 12:21 AM

5.0 grains of Bullseye under a 200 grain LSWC in .45 Auto is a stout load and over most recommended loads for that bullet. It's not a nuclear load, but it's well over much of what you'll find anyone publishing for a cast lead target bullet in .45.

frumious · February 1, 2011, 12:45 AM

Sevens,

Not sure I agree.

My Lyman 49th lists 3.5 - 5.6 grains BE under a 200 gr lead bullet. Max velocity is 869 FPS.

My Hornady 7th lists 4.6 - 5.3 grains BE under a 200 gr lead SWC. Max velocity is 1000 FPS.

I am well within these published limits (pressure-wise) and I believe I am well within the limits of a cast bullet.

Do you have a comment on my crimp question?

-cls

k4swb · February 1, 2011, 01:57 AM

1.250" is what I normally seat to for LSWC loads. I have a couple of guns that I can seat it to a longer length and function but 1.250" insures that my loads will function in all my .45s, magazines and chamber. As for crimp, I use as little as I can get by with to keep the bullet secure. It doesn't take a lot of crimp in a .45 ACP. I don't think I would ever use enough to deform the bullet any at all.

WESHOOT2 · February 1, 2011, 07:52 AM

I crimp to .469--.470".

Sevens · February 1, 2011, 11:56 AM

Good enough on your load data, but it's warmer than I've seen shown. Like I said, not nuclear, but 5.0 grains is heavier than I'm used to seeing for a target load with LSWC. I worked up a load to 4.4 grains of Bullseye for my long slide with an 18# WC spring and I thought that was warmer than most any 200 gr LSWC target load I've seen most publish. 5.0 seems much warmer. But certainly nothing near jacketed loads.

My comment on your crimp is that lots of folks have shown a measurement for their favorite .45 LSWC crimp, but I find it difficult to get a nicely accurate crimp read with my dial caliper, so what works for me is the "try, then use my barrel for a gauge" and do my testing at the range.

k4swb · February 1, 2011, 01:17 PM

I just realized, I've never measured the crimps on anything I load for and am not about to start. I can't see where a crimp measurement is even listed in my manuals. I may have missed it.

brickeyee · February 1, 2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

I can't see where a crimp measurement is even listed in my manuals. I may have missed it.

It is right up there were they give cartridge dimensions.

You need to make sure you have removed enough of the flare to meet the chamber dimensions.

SauerGrapes · February 1, 2011, 02:15 PM

I just knock the flare off the mouth and call it a day.
If your punching paper with your loads, 4.0grs will do the job. {just saying} You may even find it's more accurate and save some reloading supplies to boot!
I only have 2 .45's, but it works in both nicely.

spacecoast · February 1, 2011, 02:34 PM

My local bullet manufacturer sells two different 185 gr. LSWCs, one has a short nose and one has a long nose. I seat those to two different lengths, don't have the numbers with me right now, but just saying that not all profiles are the same. Like you have shown, I leave a bit of the shoulder sticking out on both styles.

brickeyee · February 1, 2011, 03:16 PM

A little bit of shoulder lets the lead ride on the feed ramp.

k4swb · February 1, 2011, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:
I can't see where a crimp measurement is even listed in my manuals. I may have missed it.

It is right up there were they give cartridge dimensions.

You need to make sure you have removed enough of the flare to meet the chamber dimensions.

Just looked in two manuals. No crimp deminsions in either. Lyman 49 states "a slight taper crimp can be used on the 45 ACP if necessary."
The .45 ACP has a very slight taper. Maybe you are confusing this approx. .003" taper with a crimp dimension.

Wag · February 1, 2011, 04:14 PM

+1 on using as little crimp as possible. The length should leave just a bit of shoulder showing. That will help it bounce up the ramp as it feeds without misfeeding.

--Wag--

m&p45acp10+1 · February 1, 2011, 05:08 PM

I have never measured the casmouth of mine. I just set the die to where it would remove the flare, and drop into the chamber of my gun. I set it once and have not had to fool with it since. I shoot my own home cast 200 grain LSWC almost exclusively. I do agree with 5.0 grains being a bit on the warm side for the lead reloads,. I run between 4.2 to 4.4 and they have shot well at 25 yards and less out of several different guns. COL that I use is 1.250 or somewhere there abouts. Just enough past the casemouth to keep it from catching on the bottom of the feedramp.

Note the ultimate judge is how it works for you, and the purpose you intend to use it for.

maillemaker · February 1, 2011, 05:25 PM

If I recall correctly, the Lyman #49 reload manual shows a case mouth dimension of .473". Per advice here, I have been crimping to .469-.470. It is difficult to measure because you are trying to measure right on the edge of the case mouth. It's easy to fall off the case mouth onto the bullet, or if you head towards the primer end, you start getting larger dimension readings.

I also do the "insert in chamber and spin" test. That is, I take the disassembled barrel and drop a cartridge down the chamber, allowing it to headspace on the case mouth as it is supposed to. I then try to spin the cartridge by grabbing its rim. It should spin easily.

February 1, 2011, 12:13 AM	#1
frumious Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2009 Location: Carrollton TX Posts: 523	Seating .45ACP SWC's I just received some cast lead bullets from Penn. They are 200gr .45ACP SWCBB's. They have a very sharp shoulder. I played around a little with seating depth trying to get them as long as possible and still feed. I tested a few batches, backing down the COAL from about 1.290 to 1.235 in .010 - .015 increments. Feeding performance has improved, and I am on what I think will be my last two batches - COAL 1.250 and 1.235. They look sort of like this...the bullet shoulder sticks out just a little: Tonight I was looking at the Penn bullets website and noticed he gives a recommended seating depth of 1.250. Dangit!! Should have read that page 150 rounds ago!! Until tonight I figured I'd end up seating them with the shoulder flush with the case mouth but according to the site they should work @ 1.250. We shall see. The other part of the site's recommendation is a taper crimp of .469, as measured right at the case mouth. WOW!! .469 is TIGHT. That's going to make an impression in the bullet for sure. I'm crimping .473 right now. What do you guys think? I consider this like swaging the already-seated bullet. I switched from the Lee FCD to STOP this sort of thing. So am I over-reacting? Will impressing the case with a .469 taper crimp be detrimental to accuracy? I am not too worried about pressure as I am using 5.0 grains of Bullseye...not a very stout load under a 200 grain bullet. Oh, and I am shooting them out of a Beretta PX4 Storm fullsize. -cls

February 1, 2011, 12:21 AM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,775	5.0 grains of Bullseye under a 200 grain LSWC in .45 Auto is a stout load and over most recommended loads for that bullet. It's not a nuclear load, but it's well over much of what you'll find anyone publishing for a cast lead target bullet in .45. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 1, 2011, 12:45 AM	#3
frumious Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2009 Location: Carrollton TX Posts: 523	Sevens, Not sure I agree. My Lyman 49th lists 3.5 - 5.6 grains BE under a 200 gr lead bullet. Max velocity is 869 FPS. My Hornady 7th lists 4.6 - 5.3 grains BE under a 200 gr lead SWC. Max velocity is 1000 FPS. I am well within these published limits (pressure-wise) and I believe I am well within the limits of a cast bullet. Do you have a comment on my crimp question? -cls Last edited by frumious; February 1, 2011 at 10:35 AM. Reason: 1000 FPS not 100. D'oh!!

February 1, 2011, 11:56 AM	#6
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,775	Good enough on your load data, but it's warmer than I've seen shown. Like I said, not nuclear, but 5.0 grains is heavier than I'm used to seeing for a target load with LSWC. I worked up a load to 4.4 grains of Bullseye for my long slide with an 18# WC spring and I thought that was warmer than most any 200 gr LSWC target load I've seen most publish. 5.0 seems much warmer. But certainly nothing near jacketed loads. My comment on your crimp is that lots of folks have shown a measurement for their favorite .45 LSWC crimp, but I find it difficult to get a nicely accurate crimp read with my dial caliper, so what works for me is the "try, then use my barrel for a gauge" and do my testing at the range. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 1, 2011, 04:14 PM	#13
Wag Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2010 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 1,010	+1 on using as little crimp as possible. The length should leave just a bit of shoulder showing. That will help it bounce up the ramp as it feeds without misfeeding. --Wag-- __________________ "Great genius will always encounter fierce opposition from mediocre minds." --Albert Einstein.

February 1, 2011, 01:57 AM	#4
k4swb Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2009 Posts: 389	1.250" is what I normally seat to for LSWC loads. I have a couple of guns that I can seat it to a longer length and function but 1.250" insures that my loads will function in all my .45s, magazines and chamber. As for crimp, I use as little as I can get by with to keep the bullet secure. It doesn't take a lot of crimp in a .45 ACP. I don't think I would ever use enough to deform the bullet any at all.

February 1, 2011, 07:52 AM	#5
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	I crimp to .469--.470".

February 1, 2011, 01:17 PM	#7
k4swb Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2009 Posts: 389	I just realized, I've never measured the crimps on anything I load for and am not about to start. I can't see where a crimp measurement is even listed in my manuals. I may have missed it.

February 1, 2011, 02:15 PM	#9
SauerGrapes Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2009 Location: S.E.PA. Posts: 920	I just knock the flare off the mouth and call it a day. If your punching paper with your loads, 4.0grs will do the job. {just saying} You may even find it's more accurate and save some reloading supplies to boot! I only have 2 .45's, but it works in both nicely.

February 1, 2011, 02:34 PM	#10
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	My local bullet manufacturer sells two different 185 gr. LSWCs, one has a short nose and one has a long nose. I seat those to two different lengths, don't have the numbers with me right now, but just saying that not all profiles are the same. Like you have shown, I leave a bit of the shoulder sticking out on both styles.

February 1, 2011, 03:16 PM	#11
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	A little bit of shoulder lets the lead ride on the feed ramp.

February 1, 2011, 05:08 PM	#14
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,947	I have never measured the casmouth of mine. I just set the die to where it would remove the flare, and drop into the chamber of my gun. I set it once and have not had to fool with it since. I shoot my own home cast 200 grain LSWC almost exclusively. I do agree with 5.0 grains being a bit on the warm side for the lead reloads,. I run between 4.2 to 4.4 and they have shot well at 25 yards and less out of several different guns. COL that I use is 1.250 or somewhere there abouts. Just enough past the casemouth to keep it from catching on the bottom of the feedramp. Note the ultimate judge is how it works for you, and the purpose you intend to use it for. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

February 1, 2011, 05:25 PM	#15
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	If I recall correctly, the Lyman #49 reload manual shows a case mouth dimension of .473". Per advice here, I have been crimping to .469-.470. It is difficult to measure because you are trying to measure right on the edge of the case mouth. It's easy to fall off the case mouth onto the bullet, or if you head towards the primer end, you start getting larger dimension readings. I also do the "insert in chamber and spin" test. That is, I take the disassembled barrel and drop a cartridge down the chamber, allowing it to headspace on the case mouth as it is supposed to. I then try to spin the cartridge by grabbing its rim. It should spin easily.