30-30 Winchester

bighead46 · December 9, 2010, 06:44 PM

I am wondering if some of the reloading guides are playing it safe on the loading of the 30-30 Winchester because of the many old guns still in existence. It seems a new Winchester94 or Marlin 336 might be strong enough to SAFELY increase things a little.

hornady · December 9, 2010, 07:02 PM

I do not know you or your experience reloading, but I do not know any reloaders that would recommend going much above published load data. There are many factors that increase pressure to dangerous levels besides the powder charge. Work your load up and keep an eye out for signs of excessive pressure. Personally I have found over the years that lighter loads are far more accurate that hot ones.

steve426 · December 9, 2010, 07:37 PM

Off subject but man I love my Winchester it's an accurate sob I love the lever evos too but havnt reloaded those yet.

t45 · December 9, 2010, 07:48 PM

Everything I have read, the 30-30 case is the limiting factor along with some of the older actions.

SIGSHR · December 9, 2010, 07:55 PM

In Sixguns Elmer Keith wrote that some people think "He cut his load by a few grains to get it in print so I'll just add a few grains and get his real load.
Anyone doing that WILL get a real load-most likely a new gun as well." As one member noted the strength of the 30-30 case is a limiting factor, as another noted milder loads usually are more accurate and more interesting as Townsend Whelen would say.

P-990 · December 9, 2010, 08:14 PM

And even the "new" 336 and 1894 actions ARE a serious limiting factor. Rear locking and with weak primary extraction, they just aren't designed to cope with higher pressures. If you run one of these at high enough pressures consistently, you will develop excessive headspace in a hurry. You will also run into very tough extraction as it doesn't have the camming power of a 90-degree bolt.

Just accept the .30-30 for what it is and be happy tossing 150gr .30-caliber bullets at 2200-2400 fps. It's not a magnum and never will be. If you need more performance, get a front-locking bolt action in a high-intensity round.

(990, who has a very soft fondness for anything lever action and doesn't even own a bolt action rifle)

howlnmad · December 9, 2010, 11:44 PM

I can't understand why some people think faster is more accurate. I don't push mine anywhere near 2400 fps and have no problems at 150 yards.

William T. Watts · December 10, 2010, 12:50 AM

I'm not sure the standard Winchester 94 is strong enough to handle a steady diet of 32-33 grains of 3031 or 4895 powder pushing a 170 gr bullet, even if it could the 30/30 case isn't stong enough to contain that pressure over several loadings. A 30/30 is what it is, there's been countless deer killed with the round, don't ask it to do something it wasn't designed to do. With that said I am the proud owner of a new Marlin 336C30 30/30 rifle, there is something about a lever gun that I have to have one, now is one of those times! William

hornady · December 10, 2010, 08:32 AM

William you hit it, I picked my Marlin 336 up about 20 years ago used, but in excellent condition, my eyes are getting bad so I put a Nikon 3 X 9 X 40 on it, I have a few other rifles I use for Deer, but there is just something about that Marlin that it makes a couple trips to the Deer woods every year. Mid – range loads it’s been a one shot one kill rifle under a hundred yards. I have swapped and sold other rifles, but the Marlin is a keeper.

wncchester · December 10, 2010, 10:41 AM

"It seems a new Winchester94 or Marlin 336 might be strong enough to SAFELY increase things a little."

Perhaps. But what would be the point?

Adding 100 or even 150 fps of muzzle speed to a round or flat nosed woods hunting bullet would be basically useless to a competent hunter/shooter in any practical sense. But, it would pound the bolt locking system quite a bit passed it's design criteria every time it's fired.

Sarge · December 10, 2010, 11:14 AM

Ream it out to 30-30 Ackley Improved if you absolutely, positively MUST try to make a 'pert near .308' out of it. You will fail, but you will probably feel better for having tried. Then you can buy a 308 Marlin Express.

QuakertownRich · December 10, 2010, 04:18 PM

I recently aquired a Marlin 30AS in 30-30 Win flavor. It came with see-through scope rings mounted from the factory on it. I almost immediately removed, as I am of the mindset levers don't look right with scopes. I am also aiming to hunt with it here in Pennsylvania, which does not lend itself for the most part to wide open shots, <100yrd shots are the norm. It also came with Lyman reloading dies, bullet heads, brass and factory ammo. I haven't loaded any yet, but have processed the brass, primed and they are ready to be. I've also bought some 115gr hard-cast lead flat-point bullets that I don't plan on pushing the limits with.

Jim Watson · December 10, 2010, 04:26 PM

Ackley claimed the .30-30 AI gained velocity by greater case volume and by less bolt thrust from the straighter case shape.

Then there was the Wade Leverpower; pretty much a .30-40 Krag shortened to run through a .30-30 action and blown out straighter.

Then there was the guy who ran .444 Marlin brass into a .308 die and produced a wildcat predecessor to the .307 Winchester and .308 Marlin.

You don't see many of those, but the .30-30 still sells.
I loaned my 788 bolt action .30-30 to a friend whose .270 had been stolen. Killed a deer for her, too.

bighead46 · December 10, 2010, 04:54 PM

Well the 30-30 AI is an option for all the reasons normally given- more velocity, less bolt thrust, etc. Now remember I said
SAFELY
The reason why is the 45/70 is loaded so it can be used in a Springfield trapdoor, etc but when used in a modern Marlin you can up things considerably and in the Ruger single shot- even more so.
THUS.........
I wasn't looking for any generic safety advice- I was wondering if anyone knew for sure if a 30-30 Winchester could safely be loaded "hot" in a modern Marlin 336, etc. In other words- does anyone know for sure.
I have no problem if the answer is NO, just was wondering????

William T. Watts · December 10, 2010, 05:29 PM

Ken Waters pet loads covers this question pretty thoroughly (page 237) pressures above 38K cup will have a drastic reduction in accuracy along with swollen cases. With the 30/30 I have found that always smallest groups/best accuracy occured well before reaching a maxium load, I have owned 4-5 rifles in this caliber in the 40 plus years I have handloaded. I see no reason to push any caliber to the maxium or beyond there design limit, If the rifle/caliber isn't giving you the performance you desire I would suggest a more powerful caliber. I agree with Sarge, the Marlin Express will give you an extra 250FPS, what I'm waiting for is a 308 Winchester in either the Marlin or Winchester! For what it worth when the 307Win (308 case with a rim) designed for the lever gun that was available in the mid 80's and mid 90's folks wouldn't buy them, I happen to have one and I love it! William

bighead46 · December 11, 2010, 02:38 PM

Well I'm sort of a 30-30 fan. own/owned a couple (Model 94, Marlin 336) and reloaded for both. I have to date stayed within the reloading specs. I like the Hornaday 170 grain bullet. For my typical 50 yard shots in heavy woods the standard 30-30 will usually knock the stuffing out of a typical whitetail; and, if time and conditions allow- a neck shot it will knock a whitetail down dead on the spot- one reason I've pretty much stayed with the 30-30. I have a Rem700 in 30-06 which is also a fine gun and I've asked a lot of folks that have take deer up close if they have experienced much difference between the two rounds, obviously the 30-06 is more powerful. To date- jury is still out although my gut feeling is at very close brush shooting- either does about the same on most deer unless you are trying some type of hind quarter shot.

GeauxTide · December 12, 2010, 12:02 AM

If you want a faster 30, get a 308. The case and action design are designed for just under 40k. If you look at a few manuals, you'll discover that 150s don't make it past 2100 and 170s just over 1900. You can load the 308 to 2500-2600 and duplicate the old Savage to get your ole time fix.

Bamashooter · December 12, 2010, 04:19 AM

Sierra Reloading Manual:
125gr. 2500fps. max
150gr.2300fps. max
170gr. 2150fps. max

most of your factory ammo is listed 2390fps with 150gr. bullets and 2200fps. with 170gr. bullets. According to the Sierra manual the 125gr.@2500fps. has almost identical energy as the 150gr. I think with the increased velosity it would easily be a 200-250yrd. rifle if it is scoped.

Clark · December 12, 2010, 03:48 PM

I have a Sav 219L that I bought just to overload.
It is a break action with thick steel where it counts.

I bought a Win94 and Marlin 336 just to overload them. Sheesh, what wimpy designs. I am not working up to brass failure with MY face next to that.

bighead46 · December 13, 2010, 12:49 PM

I'm not communicating very well here, I'll try again. Let's say Marlin chambers a Model 336 for a more powerful round than the 30-30. I'm not sure of some of the newer choices 307 or whatever. These higher velocity rounds develop greater pressure. Okay, we are all on the same track.....
NOW, let's say I already have a Marlin 336 chambered for the 30-30 Wincheser, and I just love that gun because of the deer, bear, etc I have used it on. I don't want to sell it but I'm wondering if I might be able to up the reloads a bit.
It seems to me (AND- assuming is dangerous business) that Marlin with their 336 and Winchester with their 94, used the same old standard action for some of these newer rounds-then that action must be strong enough to take a hotter load on the 30-30 SAFELY. Trouble is, I have no idea if the actions for the newer cartridges IS the same as used for the 30-30 if whether the actions are stronger. Another point, if the 30-30 AI has a shape that reduces bolt thrust and therefore permits a higher pressure- then maybe that is the situation with the newer lever action cartridges- their case design permits higher pressures than are safe in a standard 30-30 shaped case- if that makes sense.

Tim R · December 13, 2010, 02:42 PM

As already stated the major limiting factor here for 30-30 is the brass. 30-30 brass is really thin.

While the action might be strong enough, having the brass let loose is a bad thing. If you want to expirement go ahead and let us know the results. I also have Marlin 336 in 30-30 and it's my opinion the deer will never know the bullet could have been going another 200 feet per second faster.

Doodlebugger45 · December 13, 2010, 02:43 PM

I understand what you're saying there bighead. I do recall the brief excitement when Winchester introduced the .307 in 1982. They had already introduced the .375 a few years before that. They called the "new" Model 94 the "Big Bore". It was in .375, 307, and .356. The max pressure for those cartridges was listed as 52,000 psi compared to something like 36,500 psi for a 30-30. Winchester CLAIMED the new model 94 had been strengthened to handle the increased pressures. Maybe they were, I couldn't tell. I bought one of the .307. Just going by the look and feel of it, I couldn't tell any difference between it and my Model 94 in 30-30. I ended up trading the .307 for a 45-70 after a few years. It just didn't fill a needed niche for me at the time.

So, if the 30-30 case can take the increased pressures, which I'm sure it can, the real question is whether ALL newer model 94's are capable of the increased pressures, or was there really something extra strong about the Big Bore 94's in the early 80's? I honestly don't know, and I have no reason to find out. But those kinds of questions are always interesting from a hypothetical point of view.

old_folks · December 13, 2010, 09:38 PM

I think this has become a case of argument just for argument's sake. The 30-30 is not a fast cartridge. Why would you expect a 1/2 ton pick up to carry the load of a 2 ton pickup? If you want a faster shooting 30 caliber, there's the the .308, the 30-06, and a half dozen other 30 calibers that will do that.
Enjoy the .30-30 for what it is...a 30-30!!!!!

Tom Matiska · December 14, 2010, 02:35 PM

My experience with warm 30-30 loads was to make short case life very very short. Heavy loads combined with thin case walls, flexing from the rear lock up, and chamber tolerances on the fast 'n easy side all add up to bright rings near the head in a few shots. Head separation can happen in 5-6 rounds .... and that can wreck the strongest action.

Also...The Win 94 Big Boar action was very much heavier and had thicker side wall. Williams lists different rear peeps for the 307/356/375 Big Boar recievers. I don't subscribe to the theory the standard action can be hot-rodded.

bighead46 · December 14, 2010, 06:31 PM

Thanks Tom, it looks like you answered my question, so the issue is the brass. Well, as I said, I'm okay with that and I concure about the 30-30 being plenty at short range. There was a good Youtube a while back- it may still be around- the Misstasini (sic??) Cree. Guy shoots a moose with a 30-30 at close range and puts it down on the spot. I've read other accounts of the 30-30 at close range breaking the shoulder bones on moose. There is however a Canadian outfit that used to load a 190 grain bullet, sold just in Canada I think, and at maybe a slightly heavier pressure but not by much.
Question- any 30-30 fans that also used the 35 Remington? Notice any difference?

December 9, 2010, 06:44 PM	#1
bighead46 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2010 Posts: 140	30-30 Winchester I am wondering if some of the reloading guides are playing it safe on the loading of the 30-30 Winchester because of the many old guns still in existence. It seems a new Winchester94 or Marlin 336 might be strong enough to SAFELY increase things a little.

December 9, 2010, 08:14 PM	#6
P-990 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: SWNH Posts: 1,331	And even the "new" 336 and 1894 actions ARE a serious limiting factor. Rear locking and with weak primary extraction, they just aren't designed to cope with higher pressures. If you run one of these at high enough pressures consistently, you will develop excessive headspace in a hurry. You will also run into very tough extraction as it doesn't have the camming power of a 90-degree bolt. Just accept the .30-30 for what it is and be happy tossing 150gr .30-caliber bullets at 2200-2400 fps. It's not a magnum and never will be. If you need more performance, get a front-locking bolt action in a high-intensity round. (990, who has a very soft fondness for anything lever action and doesn't even own a bolt action rifle) __________________ NRA Master, Highpower Rifle, Across-the-Course NRA Expert, Highpower Rifle, Mid-Range Prone

December 10, 2010, 11:14 AM	#11
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,494	Ream it out to 30-30 Ackley Improved if you absolutely, positively MUST try to make a 'pert near .308' out of it. You will fail, but you will probably feel better for having tried. Then you can buy a 308 Marlin Express. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

December 10, 2010, 05:29 PM	#15
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	Ken Waters pet loads covers this question pretty thoroughly (page 237) pressures above 38K cup will have a drastic reduction in accuracy along with swollen cases. With the 30/30 I have found that always smallest groups/best accuracy occured well before reaching a maxium load, I have owned 4-5 rifles in this caliber in the 40 plus years I have handloaded. I see no reason to push any caliber to the maxium or beyond there design limit, If the rifle/caliber isn't giving you the performance you desire I would suggest a more powerful caliber. I agree with Sarge, the Marlin Express will give you an extra 250FPS, what I'm waiting for is a 308 Winchester in either the Marlin or Winchester! For what it worth when the 307Win (308 case with a rim) designed for the lever gun that was available in the mid 80's and mid 90's folks wouldn't buy them, I happen to have one and I love it! William Last edited by William T. Watts; December 10, 2010 at 08:40 PM.

December 13, 2010, 02:42 PM	#21
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	As already stated the major limiting factor here for 30-30 is the brass. 30-30 brass is really thin. While the action might be strong enough, having the brass let loose is a bad thing. If you want to expirement go ahead and let us know the results. I also have Marlin 336 in 30-30 and it's my opinion the deer will never know the bullet could have been going another 200 feet per second faster. Last edited by Tim R; December 13, 2010 at 02:50 PM.

December 9, 2010, 07:02 PM	#2
hornady Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2009 Location: SWPA Posts: 428	I do not know you or your experience reloading, but I do not know any reloaders that would recommend going much above published load data. There are many factors that increase pressure to dangerous levels besides the powder charge. Work your load up and keep an eye out for signs of excessive pressure. Personally I have found over the years that lighter loads are far more accurate that hot ones.

December 9, 2010, 07:37 PM	#3
steve426 Junior Member Join Date: November 27, 2010 Location: arizona Posts: 12	Off subject but man I love my Winchester it's an accurate sob I love the lever evos too but havnt reloaded those yet.

December 9, 2010, 07:48 PM	#4
t45 Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2010 Location: Foothills, NC Posts: 782	Everything I have read, the 30-30 case is the limiting factor along with some of the older actions.

December 9, 2010, 07:55 PM	#5
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,712	In Sixguns Elmer Keith wrote that some people think "He cut his load by a few grains to get it in print so I'll just add a few grains and get his real load. Anyone doing that WILL get a real load-most likely a new gun as well." As one member noted the strength of the 30-30 case is a limiting factor, as another noted milder loads usually are more accurate and more interesting as Townsend Whelen would say.

December 9, 2010, 11:44 PM	#7
howlnmad Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Location: Harriman Tn Posts: 424	I can't understand why some people think faster is more accurate. I don't push mine anywhere near 2400 fps and have no problems at 150 yards.

December 10, 2010, 12:50 AM	#8
William T. Watts Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2010 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 1,074	I'm not sure the standard Winchester 94 is strong enough to handle a steady diet of 32-33 grains of 3031 or 4895 powder pushing a 170 gr bullet, even if it could the 30/30 case isn't stong enough to contain that pressure over several loadings. A 30/30 is what it is, there's been countless deer killed with the round, don't ask it to do something it wasn't designed to do. With that said I am the proud owner of a new Marlin 336C30 30/30 rifle, there is something about a lever gun that I have to have one, now is one of those times! William

December 10, 2010, 08:32 AM	#9
hornady Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2009 Location: SWPA Posts: 428	William you hit it, I picked my Marlin 336 up about 20 years ago used, but in excellent condition, my eyes are getting bad so I put a Nikon 3 X 9 X 40 on it, I have a few other rifles I use for Deer, but there is just something about that Marlin that it makes a couple trips to the Deer woods every year. Mid – range loads it’s been a one shot one kill rifle under a hundred yards. I have swapped and sold other rifles, but the Marlin is a keeper.

December 10, 2010, 10:41 AM	#10
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"It seems a new Winchester94 or Marlin 336 might be strong enough to SAFELY increase things a little." Perhaps. But what would be the point? Adding 100 or even 150 fps of muzzle speed to a round or flat nosed woods hunting bullet would be basically useless to a competent hunter/shooter in any practical sense. But, it would pound the bolt locking system quite a bit passed it's design criteria every time it's fired.

December 10, 2010, 04:18 PM	#12
QuakertownRich Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2010 Location: SE Pennsylvania Posts: 81	I recently aquired a Marlin 30AS in 30-30 Win flavor. It came with see-through scope rings mounted from the factory on it. I almost immediately removed, as I am of the mindset levers don't look right with scopes. I am also aiming to hunt with it here in Pennsylvania, which does not lend itself for the most part to wide open shots, <100yrd shots are the norm. It also came with Lyman reloading dies, bullet heads, brass and factory ammo. I haven't loaded any yet, but have processed the brass, primed and they are ready to be. I've also bought some 115gr hard-cast lead flat-point bullets that I *don't* plan on pushing the limits with.

December 10, 2010, 04:26 PM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,168	Ackley claimed the .30-30 AI gained velocity by greater case volume and by less bolt thrust from the straighter case shape. Then there was the Wade Leverpower; pretty much a .30-40 Krag shortened to run through a .30-30 action and blown out straighter. Then there was the guy who ran .444 Marlin brass into a .308 die and produced a wildcat predecessor to the .307 Winchester and .308 Marlin. You don't see many of those, but the .30-30 still sells. I loaned my 788 bolt action .30-30 to a friend whose .270 had been stolen. Killed a deer for her, too.

December 10, 2010, 04:54 PM	#14
bighead46 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2010 Posts: 140	Well the 30-30 AI is an option for all the reasons normally given- more velocity, less bolt thrust, etc. Now remember I said SAFELY The reason why is the 45/70 is loaded so it can be used in a Springfield trapdoor, etc but when used in a modern Marlin you can up things considerably and in the Ruger single shot- even more so. THUS......... I wasn't looking for any generic safety advice- I was wondering if anyone knew for sure if a 30-30 Winchester could safely be loaded "hot" in a modern Marlin 336, etc. In other words- does anyone know for sure. I have no problem if the answer is NO, just was wondering????

December 11, 2010, 02:38 PM	#16
bighead46 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2010 Posts: 140	Well I'm sort of a 30-30 fan. own/owned a couple (Model 94, Marlin 336) and reloaded for both. I have to date stayed within the reloading specs. I like the Hornaday 170 grain bullet. For my typical 50 yard shots in heavy woods the standard 30-30 will usually knock the stuffing out of a typical whitetail; and, if time and conditions allow- a neck shot it will knock a whitetail down dead on the spot- one reason I've pretty much stayed with the 30-30. I have a Rem700 in 30-06 which is also a fine gun and I've asked a lot of folks that have take deer up close if they have experienced much difference between the two rounds, obviously the 30-06 is more powerful. To date- jury is still out although my gut feeling is at very close brush shooting- either does about the same on most deer unless you are trying some type of hind quarter shot.

December 12, 2010, 12:02 AM	#17
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,514	If you want a faster 30, get a 308. The case and action design are designed for just under 40k. If you look at a few manuals, you'll discover that 150s don't make it past 2100 and 170s just over 1900. You can load the 308 to 2500-2600 and duplicate the old Savage to get your ole time fix.

December 12, 2010, 04:19 AM	#18
Bamashooter Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2010 Posts: 1,860	Sierra Reloading Manual: 125gr. 2500fps. max 150gr.2300fps. max 170gr. 2150fps. max most of your factory ammo is listed 2390fps with 150gr. bullets and 2200fps. with 170gr. bullets. According to the Sierra manual the 125gr.@2500fps. has almost identical energy as the 150gr. I think with the increased velosity it would easily be a 200-250yrd. rifle if it is scoped.

December 12, 2010, 03:48 PM	#19
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I have a Sav 219L that I bought just to overload. It is a break action with thick steel where it counts. I bought a Win94 and Marlin 336 just to overload them. Sheesh, what wimpy designs. I am not working up to brass failure with MY face next to that.

December 13, 2010, 12:49 PM	#20
bighead46 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2010 Posts: 140	I'm not communicating very well here, I'll try again. Let's say Marlin chambers a Model 336 for a more powerful round than the 30-30. I'm not sure of some of the newer choices 307 or whatever. These higher velocity rounds develop greater pressure. Okay, we are all on the same track..... NOW, let's say I already have a Marlin 336 chambered for the 30-30 Wincheser, and I just love that gun because of the deer, bear, etc I have used it on. I don't want to sell it but I'm wondering if I might be able to up the reloads a bit. It seems to me (AND- assuming is dangerous business) that Marlin with their 336 and Winchester with their 94, used the same old standard action for some of these newer rounds-then that action must be strong enough to take a hotter load on the 30-30 SAFELY. Trouble is, I have no idea if the actions for the newer cartridges IS the same as used for the 30-30 if whether the actions are stronger. Another point, if the 30-30 AI has a shape that reduces bolt thrust and therefore permits a higher pressure- then maybe that is the situation with the newer lever action cartridges- their case design permits higher pressures than are safe in a standard 30-30 shaped case- if that makes sense.

December 13, 2010, 02:43 PM	#22
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	I understand what you're saying there bighead. I do recall the brief excitement when Winchester introduced the .307 in 1982. They had already introduced the .375 a few years before that. They called the "new" Model 94 the "Big Bore". It was in .375, 307, and .356. The max pressure for those cartridges was listed as 52,000 psi compared to something like 36,500 psi for a 30-30. Winchester CLAIMED the new model 94 had been strengthened to handle the increased pressures. Maybe they were, I couldn't tell. I bought one of the .307. Just going by the look and feel of it, I couldn't tell any difference between it and my Model 94 in 30-30. I ended up trading the .307 for a 45-70 after a few years. It just didn't fill a needed niche for me at the time. So, if the 30-30 case can take the increased pressures, which I'm sure it can, the real question is whether ALL newer model 94's are capable of the increased pressures, or was there really something extra strong about the Big Bore 94's in the early 80's? I honestly don't know, and I have no reason to find out. But those kinds of questions are always interesting from a hypothetical point of view.

December 13, 2010, 09:38 PM	#23
old_folks Member Join Date: March 26, 2010 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 31	I think this has become a case of argument just for argument's sake. The 30-30 is not a fast cartridge. Why would you expect a 1/2 ton pick up to carry the load of a 2 ton pickup? If you want a faster shooting 30 caliber, there's the the .308, the 30-06, and a half dozen other 30 calibers that will do that. Enjoy the .30-30 for what it is...a 30-30!!!!!

December 14, 2010, 02:35 PM	#24
Tom Matiska Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Wilkes-Barre, Pa Posts: 1,029	My experience with warm 30-30 loads was to make short case life very very short. Heavy loads combined with thin case walls, flexing from the rear lock up, and chamber tolerances on the fast 'n easy side all add up to bright rings near the head in a few shots. Head separation can happen in 5-6 rounds .... and that can wreck the strongest action. Also...The Win 94 Big Boar action was very much heavier and had thicker side wall. Williams lists different rear peeps for the 307/356/375 Big Boar recievers. I don't subscribe to the theory the standard action can be hot-rodded.

December 14, 2010, 06:31 PM	#25
bighead46 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2010 Posts: 140	Thanks Tom, it looks like you answered my question, so the issue is the brass. Well, as I said, I'm okay with that and I concure about the 30-30 being plenty at short range. There was a good Youtube a while back- it may still be around- the Misstasini (sic??) Cree. Guy shoots a moose with a 30-30 at close range and puts it down on the spot. I've read other accounts of the 30-30 at close range breaking the shoulder bones on moose. There is however a Canadian outfit that used to load a 190 grain bullet, sold just in Canada I think, and at maybe a slightly heavier pressure but not by much. Question- any 30-30 fans that also used the 35 Remington? Notice any difference?