9MM Powder Question

[stodd]

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to firingline forum! I have a question about powders for reloading 9MM. I'm trying to get a good load worked up for some 124 grain RN DS Berry Bullets and i've tried Bullseye powder and had some problems with the slide and case ejection.

Anyone out there reload for 9MM and can help me alittle? I have the following powders available to me at this time:

Unique
green dot
power pisol

If you can please let me know if you use any of these ones i have listed above and if possible what kind of loads/charges you use for this kind of bullet. If you use a different kind of powder please let me know, there is a local gun show this weekend coming up and i might be able to find some there.

Thanks..
Stodd

[engineermike]

It might not be the powder. I has a few cycling problems with a ruger 9mm but after I started to use a taper crimp the problem went away. If you are crimping your rounds then forget I said anything.
Oh yea, another thing about that Ruger, the first time I cleaned it I got it too clean. Needed a little more lube than I thought. Also, as Mo. says, the powder amount could be a cause too.

[chris in va]

Sorry but what does 'DS' stand for?

I load a lead 'round flat' nose bullet for my CZ with Bullseye. 3.8gr at 1.01oal (yes, it's short) with a Lee factory crimp die and it works fine in my CZ.

I discovered a while back the FCD was necessary as some bullets would bulge the case a bit, causing feeding/ejecting issues.

I'll probably switch powders soon as the stuff leaves black crud on my arms every range trip. Universal seems to have been the cleanest.

[MO. Shootin]

Yep it sounds like maybe you just don't have enough pressure to cycle the slide correctly.

Are you at the low end of your bullseye charge? You probably don't have to add much to get what you need if so. Might fire some factory ammo to make sure it is not a gun problem but I doubt it. You keeping your pistol clean?

I have been a little to nervous to use bullseye because their is not much room for error between min and max. Most everybody likes Power Pistol from what I have read. I have been using HS6 but I am going to try Power Pistol because they have talked me into it.

[Loader9]

Try 5.5 grs of Unique under that 124 grs Berrys bullet. COL at 1.130. FWIW, max load is 5.8 grs Unique with a COL of 1.12 per Alliant website so while not at max, yer getting close. It functions and shoots accurately in most of the 9mms I load for.

[stodd]

Loader9,

Thanks for the info on the powder for berry bullets. Do you think the 124 or 115 grain bullets from berry's are better for 9MM? I just got my first 1k 124 grain RN DS bullets, but might go to 115 grains not sure.

[bigwrench]

Just spent the weekend working up a load for Berrys 124 grn. hp. My FNP likes at COL 1.075 and over 4.0 grns. Universal. I also used Winchester cases and WSP primers. Berrys bullets can be a pain in the but because of lack of published data, and the 124 hp's have a strange profile that requires a shorter COL.

[Loader9]

Stodd, I got a couple of thousand of the 124 gr by mistake. I'm not one for sending anything back- I'll find a use for it. They loaded so well and shot so good I now keep them in stock. If I'm going to shoot a 115 gr 9mm bullet, it'll be a Remington HP. I've had fabulous luck getting them to shoot and they'll also double for carry ammo. Might look at a cost comparison on them. My preference for 9mm carry ammo is the Remington Golden Sabre in 124 gr using the above load.

[stodd]

Thanks Loader9.. I'll finish up my 124 grain and see how i like them as i use them up before i order more.

Is unqiue powder a dirty powder or is it pretty clean?

[Loader9]

Assuming you have the newer Alliant powder and not the Hercules powder, it is fairly clean burning. The old Hercules was dirty but after Alliant took over, they turned up the heat and now it burns relatively clean. Several other good powders would be AA5 and HS-6. I've gotten great accuracy out of both in the 9mm and they burn clean. But since you have Unique, might as well play with it.

[bigwrench]

I also found that loading plated bullets works better with quite a bit more case flare than you might use when loading jacketed bullets, and crimp them light.

[stodd]

Yes i think its the newer powder, i got it about 3 weeks ago from the local gun shop.

How does the HS-6 work in the 9MM pretty good? What kinds of mid-range load do you use for the 124 grain berrys rn bullet? I might have to go back to the gun shop and see if i can get some of that HS-6.

[farmerboy]

Im sure you could add alittle more Bullseye and it would probably cycle good, But if you also have some Unique I would deffinately try that too. I use and like Unique very well. No, the powder after they redesigned it is great, not dirty at all. And I do same as bigwrench's comment also.

[MO. Shootin]

I have had good luck with the HS6. I use it for 9MM, 38 spcl and 357. I have to crimp it good with the 38 and 357 or it does not burn it all. Very accurate and meters well.

[stodd]

Thanks everyone.. I think i will try some Unique and see how that works.. What would be a good starting load on Unique for that 124 gr RN DS Berry's bullet you think?

[farmerboy]

(5.5 grs) showing min:5.2 and max:5.8

[stodd]

Thanks

[fishluv]

clays is nice in 9mm

[Xfire68]

I had the same problem yesterday with my brothers SP-01 Phantom.

I loaded up some light loads with 4.2g of AA#5 and a 147g FMJ and they work great in my CZ 75B with what I think is a pretty weak factory recoil spring and in his SP-01 they would fire fine but, not eject properly. The loads with 4.8g of AA#5 worked fine in the SP-01. Just that little bit more pwder made the difference.

[McClintock]

Just curious, how much Bullseye you were using? I've been using Bullseye for over a year for 9mm, with 124 gr. lead and FMJ bullets, and haven't experienced any slide problems. My standard target load is 3.7 gr., with an OAL of 1.145.

Cheers!
McClintock

Disclaimer: the above load is what works for ME, in MY guns. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

[rtpzwms]

Chris in VA

Sorry but what does 'DS' stand for?

Double Struck

[Clark]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

It has been my experience in 9mm on how much powder will fit in the case:

Bullseye 8.8 gr will fit.
Unique 7.4 gr will fit.
Power Pistol 10.3 gr will fit.

For case support:
Pistol web case sup margin

Glock 19 9mm .190 .160 -.030
Kel-Tek P11 .190 .160 -.030
Star Firestar .165 .160 -.005
CZ52 9mm .145 .160 +.015

There are some exceptions, but most 9mm pistol barrels that I measure are 0.190" of feed ramp intrustion, leaving .030" of thin unsupported case wall.
But the case wall is ~ .015" thick and will support a lot of pressure over a .030" gap. Much more than the SAMMI registered max average pressure of 35,000 psi. That is why risk averse lawyered up corperations sell 9mm +P+.

I have done a lot of experimenting with 90 gr, 115 gr, 124 gr, 147 gr, and 158 gr in 9mm.

The most power I can get out of a typical 9mm with .190" case support and new RP primed brass is with 11 gr Power Pistol and 158 gr at 1.169". That requires tricks to get that much powder to fit and to resize the loaded ammo after compressing the powder distorts the cartridge.

What does it all mean?
1) While Unique and Bullseye may be faster powders, they lack the density to fit enough powder in to get as much power as with Power Pistol, a more dense powder.
2) Work up a load? Ha! I can't fit enough Bullseye or Unique to get pressure signs.

[stodd]

McClintock,
I used 4.0 grains of bullseye with the 124 grain berrys plated RN. Had alot of slide problems with my Smith and Wesson M&P 9MM.

Thanks Clark for the info..

I've tested some Unique 4.8, 4.9 and 5.0 grains with the 124 RN bullet and I didn't see any slide problems. So it looks like I have enough pressure to operate my M&P 9MM slide ok. Now i'm going to play around with the charges and see if i can get better groups.

[Xfire68]

Clark, have you chronograph any of these loads? I am interested in the 90g and 115g loads?

[Clark]

I am such a lousy shot with a handgun that I get about one magazine full of ammo to each chronograph I destroy.

I have stopped shooting handguns over chronographs for a couple years, and have collected mountains of data on rifles without harming a chono.

I can tell you about a couple 380s of mine running on Power Pistol:

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
1) My Kel-Tec P3AT .380
2.76" barrel, 90 gr. Speer Gold Dot bullet, 6.2 gr. Power Pistol, .970",
some cases get guppy belly bulge, mixed used brass,
1095, 1115, 1098, 1054, 1093 fps

2) Colt 1903 =Husqvarna M1907 .380, .360" groove, .351" lands
8.5 gr. power pistol, 1.090" feeds, 158 gr. LSWC, wsp, top hats primer,
painful recoil, leading
8.5 gr. power pistol, 158 gr. XTP, 1.090" feeds, wsp, top hats primer,
painful recoil
1158, 1187 fps