Bullet manufacturers ?

FullCry · February 5, 2010, 12:41 PM

If I know the correct brand and type of powder plus the, # of grains to use for a pistol cartridge and correct bullet weight and type for for the round...does it matter which brand of bullet I use? Thanks, FullCry

Hammonje · February 5, 2010, 12:47 PM

Personal preference really.

joneb · February 5, 2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

does it matter which brand of bullet I use?

YES.

Sevens · February 5, 2010, 01:13 PM

Wow, lotsa help HERE!

Here's the thing... it's more about safety than anything else. When you start with a bullet or a powder or load data that you've never worked with before, you need to start somewhere safe and work the loads up toward max.

If you take some published load and start at MAX and you don't use every single component they use right down to the same brand of brass and primer, you might find yourself in HOT territory.

And likewise, if you start lower and build toward a MAX without seeing signs of excessive pressure -- and then, on a whim, substitute someone else's bullet of the same weight, you might find yourself with excessive pressure signs.

Bullets of the same weight from different manufacturer's aren't always the same shape -- which means one of them is longer than the other. When you use a longer bullet but seat that bullet so that you have the same COAL, what have you just done?

You have reduced the internal space in your case... and as a result, you have increased the pressure of the load.

SO... if you are using some data and starting well under max (10% under max is usually suggested) then I wouldn't worry about who made the bullet. Of course, the type of bullet does matter-- don't use FMJ data with a JHP bullet or JHP data with a lead bullet and expect it to be exactly what they made.

And remember that load data is a suggestion, a place to reference and somewhere to start. It's not an exact recipe. An exact recipe is where you find yourself after you've put in the time and work of load development. You refer to your own files, using your components and data for shooting in your specific firearms. That's a recipe that you will follow to the letter.

NWPilgrim · February 5, 2010, 01:31 PM

It matters if you use a bullet design different than the listed bullet.

For instance, most data is for jacketed lead core FMJ or soft point bullets. These typically have little variation in length for a given caliber and weight. That is, a .308" 150 gr SP from Hornady, Speer, Sierra, Winchester, remington, etc. will all have much the same length. Therfore, when you seat to the listed overall length for that load they all extend the same amount into the case and result in the same interior volume.

However, some bullet designs create a "long for weight" bullet that will extend significantly further into the case and reduce volume if seated to the same COL as listed for the "typical" bullet. So you either have to seated for a longer COL, or reduce the powder charge. These long for weight bullets are usually plastic tipped, not lead core (solid copper, etc.), or long ogive hollow points. Examples would be the Hornady A-max, Nosler Ballistic Tip, etc.

Another factor to be aware of is the ogive or bullet taper relative to seating depth. A bullet with a long ogive/taper if seated too deep will actually have some of the ogive below the case mouth. Then you won't have a good hold on the bullet and won't be able to crimp if loading for semi-auto. An example of this are some 124 gr bullet designs normally used for the 9mm Luger when used for the .357 SIG. Speer explicitly says their 124 gr bullet should not be used for the .357 SIG because of its long taper. But looking at other manufacturers like Hornady and Remington they appear to have stubbier pointed FMJ 124 gr bullets and issue no such warnings.

This is why bullet manufacturers usually publish handloading manuals specifically for their bullets. If you use generic bullet designs then you should be OK with any manufacturer. But is you use specialty designs in bullets or load for a special cartridge then you should either get that manufacturers manual, or use caution and begin with start load levels and/or use data for the next weight up.

joneb · February 5, 2010, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Wow, lotsa help HERE!

Sorry for the abbreviated speed post, it seemed too important to pass up (see post #2) I did not have the time to add (and the short answer is....)

In addition to the above posts #4 and 5 , I would like to add: the diameter of bullets vary between manufactures along with the thickness of the jacket and it's composition. Add all this up and throw Murphy's Law in the mix and you have a recipe for a over pressure load.

February 5, 2010, 12:41 PM	#1
FullCry Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2010 Posts: 155	Bullet manufacturers ? If I know the correct brand and type of powder plus the, # of grains to use for a pistol cartridge and correct bullet weight and type for for the round...does it matter which brand of bullet I use? Thanks, FullCry

February 5, 2010, 01:31 PM	#5
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,357	It matters if you use a bullet design different than the listed bullet. For instance, most data is for jacketed lead core FMJ or soft point bullets. These typically have little variation in length for a given caliber and weight. That is, a .308" 150 gr SP from Hornady, Speer, Sierra, Winchester, remington, etc. will all have much the same length. Therfore, when you seat to the listed overall length for that load they all extend the same amount into the case and result in the same interior volume. However, some bullet designs create a "long for weight" bullet that will extend significantly further into the case and reduce volume if seated to the same COL as listed for the "typical" bullet. So you either have to seated for a longer COL, or reduce the powder charge. These long for weight bullets are usually plastic tipped, not lead core (solid copper, etc.), or long ogive hollow points. Examples would be the Hornady A-max, Nosler Ballistic Tip, etc. Another factor to be aware of is the ogive or bullet taper relative to seating depth. A bullet with a long ogive/taper if seated too deep will actually have some of the ogive below the case mouth. Then you won't have a good hold on the bullet and won't be able to crimp if loading for semi-auto. An example of this are some 124 gr bullet designs normally used for the 9mm Luger when used for the .357 SIG. Speer explicitly says their 124 gr bullet should not be used for the .357 SIG because of its long taper. But looking at other manufacturers like Hornady and Remington they appear to have stubbier pointed FMJ 124 gr bullets and issue no such warnings. This is why bullet manufacturers usually publish handloading manuals specifically for their bullets. If you use generic bullet designs then you should be OK with any manufacturer. But is you use specialty designs in bullets or load for a special cartridge then you should either get that manufacturers manual, or use caution and begin with start load levels and/or use data for the next weight up. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

February 5, 2010, 12:47 PM	#2
Hammonje Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2010 Location: Lilburn, GA Posts: 117	Personal preference really.

February 5, 2010, 01:13 PM	#4
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,775	Wow, lotsa help HERE! Here's the thing... it's more about safety than anything else. When you start with a bullet or a powder or load data that you've never worked with before, you need to start somewhere safe and work the loads up toward max. If you take some published load and start at MAX and you don't use every single component they use right down to the same brand of brass and primer, you might find yourself in HOT territory. And likewise, if you start lower and build toward a MAX without seeing signs of excessive pressure -- and then, on a whim, substitute someone else's bullet of the same weight, you might find yourself with excessive pressure signs. Bullets of the same weight from different manufacturer's aren't always the same shape -- which means one of them is longer than the other. When you use a longer bullet but seat that bullet so that you have the same COAL, what have you just done? You have reduced the internal space in your case... and as a result, you have increased the pressure of the load. SO... if you are using some data and starting well under max (10% under max is usually suggested) then I wouldn't worry about who made the bullet. Of course, the type of bullet does matter-- don't use FMJ data with a JHP bullet or JHP data with a lead bullet and expect it to be exactly what they made. And remember that load data is a suggestion, a place to reference and somewhere to start. It's not an exact recipe. An exact recipe is where you find yourself after you've put in the time and work of load development. You refer to your own files, using your components and data for shooting in your specific firearms. That's a recipe that you will follow to the letter. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.