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Old August 4, 2009, 01:19 PM   #1
durko58
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Cleaning brass cases

I have a Lyman Turbo 1200 tumbler that I brought out of moth balls after my renewed interest in reloading. I tried tumbling 30 cases of old .44 mag brass for like 6 hours in corn media but it just didn't clean them acceptably. I bought some liquid brass polish called Wright's to finish them up and now they look like new. The hand cleaning was tedious though notwithstanding. Has anyone ever tried putting brass polish like this into the tumbler media to facilitate the cleaning process or maybe have another idea as to getting clean brass that would be less painstaken? Any suggestions would be appreciated
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Old August 4, 2009, 01:22 PM   #2
Farmland
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If that brass was that bad you might want to consider using crushed walnut media. Usually just a couple of hours makes the cases pretty nice. I use the corn as a finishing polish type media on brass that I want that outstanding shine on. They do make several different polishes for the media.

I've never tried adding Wrights to the media.
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Old August 4, 2009, 01:34 PM   #3
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durko58

I am not familiar with "brass polish called Wright's ". Could you please look on the label and tell us what ingrdients are in it??????

If you use a few ounces of paint thinner (also labeled mineral spirits and sometimes Goddard Solvent) to your media, it will help to polish the brass. It would be better to use walnut than corn cob, I use a 60-40 mix walnut/corn cob.
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Old August 4, 2009, 01:36 PM   #4
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Search on it. Most of those brass polishes, like Brasso, contain ammonia which weakens brass with long enough exposure. Many have gotten away with using it anyway, but if you're going to put it in a tumbler I recommend you run the tumbler with the lid off until the ammonia largely evaporates before putting the brass in. Ammonia-free polish is cheap enough at Midway that I don't see a real need for the risk? You can also dilute white automotive buffing compound to a liquid in odorless mineral spirits and treat the media with that.

If you use Lyman's green treated corncob, I think you'll find it is about the fastest media. It normally takes only 2 hours when it is new. That time extends as it ages and the pores in the corncob get packed with dirt. Most of us now toss a clothes drier sheet in with the tumbler to collect the dust. That cuts down on what goes into the air when you separate the media from the brass, which is hazardous to breath because of the lead residue left by the priming mix. It also leaves the brass smelling springtime fresh.

Carbon residue in brass, same as in guns, hardens as time passes. Just as running a carbon solvent swab through your bore at the range makes it easier to clean the gun when you get home, anything you can do to loosen carbon when your cases are still warm will help them clean up more easily when you get home. A spray can of Bore Scrubber may help. One fellow posted that he keeps a bottle of Ed's Red (read or download the recipe from my file repository if you don't have it; just hover on the file name until a down arrow appears on the right, and click on that) and some Q-tips with him at the range and used the Q-tips to moisten the case mouths at the range so they come completely clean later. That is for consistent bullet pull and is more critical to rifle loading than handguns loading, but the exterior wipe-off of your cases with a big patch moistened with that home brew, then tossed in a tin will certainly help them polish up.

In the same vein, if you have a Lee hand tool and a Lee (or other brand) Universal Decapper die, you can de-prime your fired cases at the range, too. If done when they are still warm from the gun, most of the primer residue falls out. If left to harden, it becomes much more difficult to completely clean.
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Old August 4, 2009, 02:09 PM   #5
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Agree...

I have tried (yes, I knew it when I did it) Brasso just to see how or if it would work with some really cruddy cases. Brasso is great stuff, but not for brass. It did not do near as nice a job as Cabela's brand. I have tried others (lee's) but always come back to Cabela's. works the best for me and I seldom tumble over 1 and 1/2 hours. And, I use a drier sheet, too.

I have been told by some vintage folks here that NuFinish car stuff works too. About a cap ful - let it run for 10 minutes then add your brass. I haven't tried it, but some guys are using it with good success they say.

Take care, God bless - enjoy the hobby all over again!

Margiesex

And remember: Hug your God and your guns - 'cause he's coming for them both, and soon!!
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Old August 4, 2009, 02:39 PM   #6
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margiesex

Any good car polish will do the same as NuFinish.

And they only cost a dime or quarter at a rubish sale.
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Old August 4, 2009, 05:10 PM   #7
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What I did last time was to saok in 30% Simple Green and 70% water then soak in white vinegar and rinse. Those shells came out looking new. Tim
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Old August 7, 2009, 02:15 PM   #8
durko58
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I am not familiar with "brass polish called Wright's "....

Actually, after doing a bit of net searching it looks like Wright's is the supplier of Cabela's media/polish that Margiesex mentioned so I purchased a box to see how that works in my Turbo 1200. After looking at the ingredients in the bottle of Wright's I bought before, it just states contains ammonia and abrasive which Unclenick referred to in his response. I don't want to weaken the brass shooting .44mag ammo using medium/high 2400 loads either. Although I haven't opened the box I bought from Cabela's yet to read the formula, I'm assuming it is ammonia free. That Nufinish car polish (that Margisex referred too) sounds interesting as well. I might give that a try after seeing how the Cabela's stuff works. Thanks everyone!

Last edited by durko58; August 7, 2009 at 02:26 PM.
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Old August 7, 2009, 03:28 PM   #9
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The ammonia isn't a problem if you go quickly enough, but how quick is an unknown to me? I've never seen the exposures quantified. It would be a dandy experiment to undertake, though. I did have a stuck case in a .308 sizer die one time that the head tore off of when I tried to use a stuck case remover (didn't know about freezing back then). I left it in a glass pickle jar with some Ace 10% ammonia and after a couple of months the case was gone. Had some surface etching and thin rust patina on the die, though. I think if I'd cut the concentration in half and added a little water soluble machine tool coolant or some Prestone anti-freeze additive water pump lube with rust inhibitors I'd have been OK.
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Old August 7, 2009, 05:55 PM   #10
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I've posted this several times... Purchase some Kaytee Walnut Bird Litter from your local Walmart (yeah, I know). It comes in a bag and sells for about $6 for 7 pounds. Add about 2 tablespoons of either paint thinner (if tumbling outside your living quarters) or unscented mineral spirits (if somewhat closer to your living quarters, no solvent is completely unscented). Run your tumbler for 10-15 minutes after adding the solvent before adding your cases. Once the additive is well distributed, add the cases and tumble for 2 hours (use an appliance timer). They will be very clean, and the liquid additive really cuts down the dust.
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Old August 8, 2009, 09:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
After looking at the ingredients in the bottle of Wright's I bought before, it just states contains ammonia and abrasive which Unclenick referred to in his response.
Just type in the words "Season Cracking" into Google and find all about how bad ammonia is for brass.
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Old August 8, 2009, 10:37 AM   #12
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Slamfire1,

Cool beans! I'm kicking myself for not thinking to try that before. I'm going to pass it along.

I'd never heard of the connection between season cracking and air-born ammonia. Just Hatcher's reports of season cracking in military ammo stores, which lead to requiring case neck annealing to relieve residual stresses. It's hard to imagine there was much ammonia present in military storage bunkers, so I'm guessing that over enough years it can happen without ammonia, but that ammonia greatly accelerates it? I'll have to go back and reread Hatcher to check that I have his details right? It'd be interesting to see if ammonia could have been part of the picture all along? The humidity the British troops experienced in the monsoon season in India, as mentioned in the Wikipedia article, probably was necessary to ionize the gas to ammonium hydroxide to do the etching, as well as keeping the local composting bacteria active enough to make the gas in the first place.

A tie-in is Hatcher's work at Frankford Arsenal with the problem in the early 1920's. It's result is why our military came to require the annealing stains on case necks not be polished off. The Arsenal location is in an area that then had a lot of airborne chemical fumes from industry and was fairly corrosive (no EPA regs back then). They left some annealed but unpolished cases on their roof along side some polished ones for a year. At the end of that time the polished cases were severely corroded and eaten through, while the unpolished ones were still intact. Apparently the surface oxides confer a good deal of protection.
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Old August 8, 2009, 12:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
It's hard to imagine there was much ammonia present in military storage bunkers, so I'm guessing that over enough years it can happen without ammonia, but that ammonia greatly accelerates it?
If you follow up the British experience in India, there is lots of ammonia vapors in the air.

There is in fact a lot of water vapor in the air, it is always there, and there are a lot of other things in the air that were not in the air in pre industrial societies. Sulphur is one. Used to be that silver stayed shiny. Now it does not.

Something else that causes neck cracking is powder deterioration in the case. Double based and single based gunpowders outgass nitric acid as they deteriorate. Nitric gas will crack case necks. Also caused green corrosion on the base of my match bullets. I had to toss 700 308 LC cases due to surplus 4895 deterioration in the case.

Double based powder deteriorate faster than single base. The Army scraps double based powders at 20 years, single based at 45 years.

Talking to a Navy Energics expert, when the military stores all sorts of different explosives and ammunition in a bunker, bad things happen. They all out gass. Many have different explosive compounds. The combination of all these vapors in the air have created unstable dangerous explosive environments.

The military does not openly talk about their ammo dump explosions. They don’t talk about it in open literature. (Rule Two of Government Behavior “Minimize Scandal”.) I Googled an incident that the Expert had personnally written an after analysis report on, and nothing was on the web. But you will find evidence of how worried they are about ammo explosions: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/...02?cookieSet=1

Still if you want to find how many ammo dumps go boom per year, just Google it, you will find that it is a surprising number.
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Old August 8, 2009, 03:10 PM   #14
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I've been using NuFinish for years. Works great. I generally use a 50/50 mix of cc and walnut. However, get fine results just with cc.
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Old August 8, 2009, 05:19 PM   #15
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no.7 car polish , tbl. spoon dissolved in mineral sprits then poured into tumbler , it`ll clump up just wait till it disipates then add brass , run until desired shine.
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Old August 8, 2009, 10:33 PM   #16
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I use NUFINISH and cob. They come out looking like new. Also, its a lot less expensive than buying the name brand stuff from Cabelas or Midway. Remember NuFinish is a polymer, and leaves a certain amount of "slick" on the outside of the case.
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Old August 9, 2009, 02:58 PM   #17
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I have a Lyman Turbo 1200 since 1983 and have always used crushed walnut shells. It works great with about two hour of tumbling. If it takes longer I replace the media.

If the brass is that severely tarnished or has dark spots that cannot be removed perhaps its corroded and should be discarded. Never use an ammonia base cleaner as it breaks down the brass and can lead to separation or cracks. That has alway been my policy, other have differing opinions.

One note, I always clean right after shooting, resize, then clean again. It keeps the brass like new and allows me to see imperfections or possible separations/cracks.
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Old August 10, 2009, 04:41 PM   #18
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If somebody quietly urinates in the ammo bunker, there will be ammonia there.
When they were building one of the towers at Huddersfield Polytechnic in the 1970s, they had trouble with brass metal fittings inside the shaft corroding because the workmen were peeing down it rather than go down to ground level and back up again.
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Old August 10, 2009, 05:26 PM   #19
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Old August 10, 2009, 05:46 PM   #20
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nu finish and walnut lizzard bedding from the pet store
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Old August 30, 2009, 12:32 PM   #21
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Which Nu Finish?

Are you referring to their polish? They also make a cleaner and some other products but I suspect it is the polish you are using. Right?
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Old August 30, 2009, 01:52 PM   #22
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Shiny brass...

I use straight Lyman's TUFNUT which is crushed nutshell with rouge. It is red. Couple hour works wonders. Better than cob IMHO.
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Old September 27, 2009, 09:53 PM   #23
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I must agree that crushed walnut cleans faster than c-cob. I've tried the Lymans and the stuff sold by Brownells and they both work well, for a while. You can add rejuvenator (Brownells) but by that time it seems like it's time for new media or you end up with polished cases with crud on them. I've got two machines so I have walnut in one and cob in the other and after running in the walnut for a while I dump them into the cob to finish them off and clean off the rouge left over from the walnut. I've tried finding the walnut lizard bedding at Wal-Mart, PetSmart, etc. but so far no luck. I did find ground cob at Wal-Mart for under $1/pound.
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Old September 28, 2009, 06:41 PM   #24
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I use a Hornady Tumbler with Chestnut shells and Nu- finish car polish. Works great. They come out looking sweet.
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Old September 30, 2009, 12:27 PM   #25
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Where do you find chestnut shell media? I haven't had any luck finding any nut hull media (except the over priced stuff sold by the gun folks). I've looked at pet stores, WalMarts, etc. No luck. I did find a good deal on c-cob at WalMart yesterday. An 8# bag for $3. Too bad they only had one left on the shelf.
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