Police show fruits of firearms ordinance

[eldogg4life]

http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/1151466.html

I lived in Sacramento for a while and when I read this I thought it was very interesting. I now live in Nevada which is very Pro 2nd Amendment. The Dictatorship of California is horrible when it comes to supporting an armed citizenry. I wanted to know what you guys think.

[divemedic]

Reading the comments, you see the same tired old arguments you have always seen.

[44 AMP]

74 people illegally purchased ammunition. 84% of them had feleony convictions. OK, thats 62.16 (.16 of a person is what? OK, I'll round it off to 62)

53 people have been changed in the past year resulting from the ammo trace.

First, what about the 12 people who purchased ammo illegally, but were not felons? IS there a CA law (or a Fed one that bans you from buying ammo, if you are NOT a felon?) The Lautenberg law bans you from having a gun for misdemeanor domestic violence, but does it ban you from buying ammo?

Second, if 74 people illeagally bought ammo (which would be a crime, right?) why are there only 53 people changed with guns crimes?

Again, rounding it off, that 72%

Using the supplied numbers, 100% of the 74 committed a crime (illegally buying ammo), 84% of them had felony convictions, but only 72% (less than 3/4) were charged with firearms crimes. There seems to be a lack of consistancy here. It is any wonder we don't trust these people?

[jfrey123]

I can't believe I'm reading those words: "illegally purchased ammunition."

My question is how did they purchase it? I think this story is referring to the Ammunition Card people are required to have to buy ammo. Why were stores selling ammo to people who didn't have this card?

Only logical explanation I can come up with is that they're comparing ammo purchases to your registered firearms. Say you own a .308 rifle and a 9mm handgun. If you suddenly decide one day to buy 30.06, and they see you don't have a 30.06 then you get a visit? Is anyone else understanding this article better than I am? Maybe I'm just too p.o.'ed to think straight about it right now...

[hayek]

Ammo card? That is insulting to any free man.

[Socrates]

:barf:

[TimRB]

"I think this story is referring to the Ammunition Card people are required to have to buy ammo."

What card is that? Is that a local Sacto requirement? There is no such statewide requirement.

Tim

[Buzzard Bait]

Well, why were these criminals out on the street? if they are known criminals and the police must have known who they were (they claim to know they were criminals) they must have known where to find them ( they were able to find their guns) why were they on the street in the first place what official released them from prison if they are so dangerous we have to keep them away from sharp objects who do we hold acountable for these dangerous people not being behind bars?

Buzzard Bait

[jfrey123]

What card is that? Is that a local Sacto requirement?

I thought I remember a law someone pushed where you would have to have a Ammo Card, almost like a CCW. Might've had something to do with the microstamping law that they pushed as well. Maybe there is no card? (Someone from Sac-o-tomato help!)

Re-reading the story, all it says is that the shops have to put client data onto a website. So, that changes my theory to the following: you buy 30.06, government sees it on the website, checks your registrations, sees you don't have a 30.06, arrests you for having illegal ammunition???

I'm still really confused by this story. I can't imagine a world where ammo ownership is illegal!

[LanceOregon]

Guys, in California you have to SHOW ID in order to buy ammo. The retailer gets your California Drivers License and your address. That has been the law in California for many years now.

The Sacramento City Ordance does nothing to make buying ammunition illegal. All it did was to require that dealers enter the names, drivers license, and address of anyone buying ammo in the city into an online database that the city mantains.

The police department then cross-checks that list against a list of folks who are banned from owning firearms. They then obtain a search warranty from a judge based on the probable cause that the person buying the ammo also has a gun in their possession.

If the police then do find that the person is in possession of a firearm, the person is then placed under arrest.

This is very much like Project Exile in Richmond, Virginia. The only difference is that ammunition sales are being monitored to produce suspects to be investigated.

A lot of men get arrested for misdemeanor domestic abuse. To be arrested, about all you have to do is to leave any sort of visible mark on your spouse if you both have a fight.

DA's often offer men plea bargains, without making any mention to the person that by pleading guilty they are forever losing their right to own firearms. That's one reason why it is so important to have an attorney defending you.

Unfortunately, many men just sign away their rights, without even knowing what they are doing.

.

[TimRB]

"Guys, in California you have to SHOW ID in order to buy ammo."

No, sorry, that's not true. It may be the policy of some stores to check ID for their own reasons, but it is not state law.

Edit: Perhaps you're thinking of Penal Code section 12316 a) 1) A), which requires that ammunition purchasers must be at least 18 years old, and purchasers of handgun ammunition 21 years old.

Tim

[LanceOregon]

error

[Stagger Lee]

The Sacramento City Ordance does nothing to make buying ammunition illegal. All it did was to require that dealers enter the names, drivers license, and address of anyone buying ammo in the city into an online database that the city mantains.

The police department then cross-checks that list against a list of folks who are banned from owning firearms. They then obtain a search warranty from a judge based on the probable cause that the person buying the ammo also has a gun in their possession.

Gotta say, I like that.

It's on a par with BATFE partnering with Washington DC cops and staking out the parking lots of gun shops in MD and VA which are just outside DC, then following any car with DC tags back into DC and stopping it to arrest the occupants for possession of a firearm or unregistered ammunition. And while the crooks are being processed, the police get search warrants for their homes and toss them to find the guns. It's been a real successful program that's resulted in the discovery of a considerable amount of narcotics and the recovery of a fair amount of stolen property, to include guns taken from rightful, law-abiding owners.

[divemedic]

Kind funny, since we now all know that the DC ban was unconstitutional, meaning that the above named convictions should all be tossed out.

[Stagger Lee]

Nah, the convictions aren't going to get tossed. Most of those convicted have been felons who were and are still prohibited from owning guns, or they were convicted for felonies resulting from things found during the searches. (The ammo possession charge is only a misdemeanor) And anything discovered as a result of a search incident to arrest for possessing ammunition which was illegal to possess at that time is still going to stand up as the arrest still gave probable cause for the searches. If drugs, other weapons and/or stolen property was found and felony charges brought as a result, that still sticks, as it should.

Call me funny, but I don't believe that convicted felons or drug dealers should get a free pass on anything ever. If they're doing wrong or packing guns, they need to do time.

[obxned]

I think the time and resources required for this could have produced a much more positive effect for the community if they have been used for more patrol of the problem areas of the city.

[rampage841512]

Why isn't California revolting right now against its State legislature?

There should be mobs and torches in the street.

Would be nice. Then maybe I could go back. FREE CALIFORNIA!

[44 AMP]

So, I gotta have an ammo card as a US citizen but illegals get free health care and a driver's license?

Yes, but they can't buy ammo legally!

Why isn't California revolting right now against its State legislature?

Look carefully, the fight is beginning. The internal meltdown is starting in the CA govt as well. CA is more than just broke, they are hugely in debt, and the Governator wants to do something about it, but part of the rest of the state govt. is refusing to follow his orders!

There should be mobs and torches in the street.

Give it time. When the people (especially the important people) finally get affected by the situation, only then will things really change. But there is no guarantee that it will be change for the better. For too long, too many people making the decisions have been living in their own fantasy world, perhaps a result of the huge influence of Hollywodd culture. Eventually it will become unavoidable, reality will prevail, and they will learn to their dismay that just because it is in their "script" doesn't mean it is that way in real life.
The real problem is in how long it will take, and how many good people will suffer (and perhaps die) in the upheavals that are apparently the only things that will make some of these people wake up and see the truth.

Since I don't live there, for me, it is a spectator sport, at least for now. The one thing that really bothers me is the attitude that "as California goes, so goes the rest of the country". As if somehow their misguided and failed social policies make them better and wiser than the rest of us. They don't. California can, and does serve as a shining example of how NOT to run a state!

[ENDO]

I live near Sacramento CA. and have never had to show ID even when I was a kid which was a long time ago.