38 and 357?

[kingbigluke]

Can you take a Smith and Wesson .38 and shoot .357 and .38 cartridges?

[45_Shooter]

Nope, unless you have a large mallet and are itching to have your hand amputated for you.

Can't convert it either; just buy a magnum revolver if you wanna shoot the boomers.

[kingbigluke]

Haha. Thanks

[dalegribble]

you can shoot 38's in a 357 but you can't shoot 357's in a 38. this makes buying a 357 a no brainer to me.

[kingbigluke]

Ohhh. Ok

[ShootingNut]

The folks just getting into reloading, "can I load .357 in my .38 spl", Ya Sure if you wanna destroy your gun and your hand!

[kingbigluke]

Ok. Say if you have a Smith and Wesson .38 you can shoot any .38 ammunition out of it right?

[FEG]

you can shoot 38's in a 357 but you can't shoot 357's in a 38. this makes buying a 357 a no brainer to me.

Shooting .38 Special in a dedicated .38 Special is often more accurate. I believe this is due to lead building up in a .357 cylinder from the shorter .38s taking a long run at the forcing cone. I'm not really certain.

At any rate, I mention it, because I find it convenient to own both chamberings.

[Stumper]

Kingbigluke, If you have a S&W .38 Special you can shoot any .38 Special out of it (technically some of the older Airweights were not aproved for +P loadings but you won't immediately ruin the gun or blow your fingers off. Also there are a few ancient boxes of .38/44 or .38 Special High velocity floating around that were loaded to about 30,000CUP which shouldn't be used in light frame .38s----though they shouldn't cause catastrphic failure.) If your .38 is marked 38 S& W with no mention of the 'Special' that is a different ,shorter,slightly fatter, lower pressure cartidge.

[kingbigluke]

oh ok thanks stumper but if the s&w .38 is not special it will ruin the gun if I shoot 38 special out of it?

[Dfariswheel]

Either the .38 Special ammo won't chamber at all, or can cause the gun to blow up, depending on the model and age of the gun.

If the gun is chambered for the .38 Special, it'll say so.
If it says something like ".38 S&W" it's chambered for a more or less obsolete low-powered 38 short cartridge.
Shoot ONLY the ammo the gun is marked for, no matter what it is.
In other words, don't try to shoot .38 S&W in a .38 Special, or .38 Special in a .38 S&W.

[Stumper]

38 Special shouldn't fit in a 38 S&W chamber but there are a few exceptions. The old 38 Long Colt(not a 38 S&W, just an example) military models were bored straight through (Which made sense since the rounds were initially a heel type bullet that was the same diameter as the case) and will accept 38 Specials and .357 Magnums. The 38 special is loaded to slightly higher pressures than the original intended cartridge but isn't likely to harm the gun. A .357 will likely make it go kaboom. Some foreign made and cheap domestic 38 S&W revolvers did the same thing as the old Military Colts-bored the chambers straight through the cylinder. -Lousy plan for accuracy and performance with normal bullets and it made it possible to insert the longer cartridges that were later developed into those cylinders..... but they were cheap for reasons.
Most any S&W chambered for 38 S&W or Colt marked 38 New Police (Identical dimension cartridge loaded to same pressures but Colt specified flat pointed bullets-they safely interchange) will have properly cut chambers that won't alow a .38 special to enter all the way.

[Boncrayon]

I'd go the .357mag and shoot 38 Specials at the range. I have the 38/40 Smith that has shot .357mag. over 30 years. The frame was bigger and it was made for higher power. It was my father's service pistol. Today, go with the caliber scribed on the barrel. Don't vary. You can at least shoot 38 Specials at the range for economy. I'd shoot jacketed or semi-jacketed to prevent lead from building up in the barrel.

[B.N.Real]

I was shocked to read that you could indeed load .357 rounds in some older .38 S&W pistols.

Just because they fit the chamber does'nt mean they are safe to shoot.

You should always see the 357 magnum label on the side of the gun before you fire a 357 round in the handgun.

[oldgranpa]

Don't do it, don't even try it!
The difference is not the case diameter or cartridge overall length, it's the case length.
Spec case length for 38special is 1.155" and for .357mag is 1.290" (SAAMI)
In a properly made revolver, the .357mag will not fit into a 38special cylinder.
This is because the cylinder is bored for the 38spec case and the .357mag, while it will go in, it will only go part way and stop. And you can't close the cylinder.
I have available both a S&W mod 37-3 38special (actually my wife's) and a S&W M&P 360 .357mag (mine). The cylinders measure the same length on both guns, 1.597" long. It might be possible to force a .357mag cartridge into the 38spec cylinder, but would be a really dumb idea. Even if it fired without a kaboom, the cartridge would expand so tight in there it may never come out.
Typical overall length of the rounds are around 1.577" for the .357mag and 1.476" for the 38special. So you see the 38cylinder is long enough for the mag round.
Try it yourself. If your 38special is made properly a 357mag round should not fit. It will go part way and stop.
And if anyone does try this really stupid idea, please let us know how long your stay in the emergency ward was!!

Now, the other way around, shooting 38 in a .357mag gun will work. But you will get some carbon buildup in the cylinder due to the shorter OAL. What I usually do at a range visit, is shoot my .357mag rounds first in the M&P 360 which won't be too many, then finish the practice with 38's. Clean the cylinder good later.

Cheers,
og

[mellow_c]

Just so ya know... The .38 special came first. Then they started loading it with higher pressures, to increase velocity. And the .357 Magnum was born. But they decided to load the .357's into a longer case, so it would not be able to fit into an older .38 special by mistake, which cant handle the .357 pressures. So really, as far as I know, you could load a .38 special case to be the same as a .357, and then still be able to fire it out of a .357. But if you were to fire it out of your .38 special, well.... thats not what they were made for, and anything could happen.

I'm pretty sure about the first half of what I just said, the rest, I dont know, just sounded good

Cant shoot .357 magnums out of .38 special revolvers, but you can shoot .38 specials out of .357 magnum revolvers.

As far as shooting .38 +P out of a .38 special, not all .38's are rated to shoot +P... I would recommend Emailing S&W, and tell them the exact model you have, and ask if it can safely and reliably shoot +P's.

Good luck

[carguychris]

38 Special shouldn't fit in a 38 S&W chamber but there are a few exceptions.

A .38Spl case is a full 1/4" longer than a .38S&W case and should stick WAY out of a cylinder chambered for .38S&W. The .38Spl is also significantly smaller in diameter than a .38S&W case and will noticeably wobble around due to the poor fit.

FWIW there's a specific reason I bring this up... a large number of Lend-Lease S&W .38/200 British Service Revolvers (aka British Victories) were re-imported to the USA after WWII, then reamed out to accept .38Spl cartridges and sold for bargain prices. The original guns usually had 5" barrels (although many were 4" or 6"), parkerized (dull flat grayish black) finish, smooth walnut stocks, and a lanyard loop pinned to the butt. However, they were often modified, and usually poorly- barrels cut down and not properly recrowned, refinished badly, military stocks replaced with cheap aftermarket faux stags, etc.

Due to the larger diameter of the .38S&W case and bore, firing .38Spl ammo in these guns will usually give poor accuracy and bulged or split cases. It can also result in overpressure and a catastrophic kB! The moral of this story: beware of old S&W K frames that will chamber .38Spl loosely but say ".38 S&W Ctg." on the barrel, and have a "V" or "SV" serial number prefix and a lanyard loop hole on the butt. Modifications and poor refinishing are another red flag. As someone on the S&W forum said, these revolvers make dandy trotline weights, but you don't want to fire one.

As far as shooting .38 +P out of a .38 special, not all .38's are rated to shoot +P... I would recommend Emailing S&W, and tell them the exact model you have, and ask if it can safely and reliably shoot +P's.

In the current owner's manual, S&W advises that any model-numbered (1958 and later) K frame chambered for .38Spl can safely handle +P.

[44 AMP]

We are talking about 3 different cartridges here, and they are not all the same. The very similar name of two of them causes confusion.

The .38 S&W - designed by S&W about 1877. Widely used in small break action revolvers, and some solid frame DA guns. Used by the British, known as the .380/200 or the .38/200. Many S&W guns made for England (the Victory model) chambered in .38 S&W/.380/200. As noted, some of these guns came back to the US and some of those were rechamberd to take the .38 Special round, sometimes, badly. The .38 S&W has a shorter case with a fatter body diameter than the .38 Special, and is loaded to a lower pressure/velocity.

The .38 Special - designed by S&W and introduced in 1902. This round was called the .38 S&W Special (and sometimes the .38 Colt Special) when it first came out, and of course there was (and still is) some confusion between it and the .38 S&W round. Called simply the .38 Special for many years, there is still some confusion when talking about S&W revolvers in .38 caliber, because even though S&W has not made any revolvers in .38S&W caliber for many years (all the current S&W .38s are .38 Special) many of the older guns are still around. The .38 Special case is much longer, and slightly smaller diameter than the .38 S&W case.

The .357 Magnum - introduced by S&W in 1935, the King of Revolver Cartridges for many years, it has the same dimensions as the .38 Special case, but is .1 inches longer, and loaded to a much higher pressure and velocity.

You can safely fire .38 Special rounds in a .357 Magnum revolver.

You cannot safely fire .357 Magnum rounds in a .38 Special revolver (they should not fit -too long- but if they do, they are still not safe to shoot!)

You cannot shoot .38 S&W rounds in a .38 Special or .357 Magnum revolver (they will not fit)

You cannot fire .38 Special or .357 magnum in a revolver chambered for the .38 S&W (no matter who made it), they are too long to fit.

It may be that there are some cheaply (poorly) made revolvers in cal .38 S&W that will physically accept the longer .38 Special or .357 mag rounds. These guns are extremely dangerous, and if fired with the longer higher pressure rounds are very likely to KABOOM!

There are also a few more obsolete .38 caliber rounds that came out in the 1870s, 80s, & 90s with names that include the words "short" and "Long", and the names Colt and New Police, and others. Some of these rounds can be fired safely in guns marked for other calibers, and some cannot. If you get one of these old guns, do your research carefully to be sure you get the correct ammo for it.

OK, everything clear? or clear as mud?

[carguychris]

Just a bit more trivia...

The .38 S&W is also known as the .38 Colt New Police and the .38 Super Police (not to be confused with the .38 Super derived from the .38ACP). Colt and other gunmakers didn't want to put the name of their competitor on their barrels.

The .38Spl is a lengthened version of the .38 Long Colt, which was the standard U.S. military handgun cartridge when S&W designed the first K frame Hand Ejector M&P. S&W lengthened the .38LC to address concerns about the its perceived lack of power while still allowing their new pistols to chamber and fire the older round.

It's perfectly safe to use .38LC ammo in a .38Spl revolver, but this fact is academic nowadays because .38LC is so obsolete. You're unlikely to stumble upon a cheap stash of unfired .38LC ammo, and if you did, it's probably worth enough as a collectible in its own right that you wouldn't want to fire it.

[Jkwas]

Shooting .38 Special in a dedicated .38 Special is often more accurate. I believe this is due to lead building up in a .357 cylinder from the shorter .38s taking a long run at the forcing cone. I'm not really certain.

I have found this to be true.

[Qwiks draw]

Here's some stuff to back up what these guys have said or to add to it.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=7052.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=7545.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=4920.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=1603.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/in...p?topic=1926.0