The "new" Ruger company

RCJ · February 24, 2008, 07:42 PM

They started the new wave of Rugers with the P345, now the SR9 is out on the market and their .380 pocket pistol is on the way. Here's the discussion I wanted to start: are the new attributes of slimmer lines and lighter weights sacrificing the tank-like durability and rock-solid reliability that the older Ruger semis are known for? How are the new .45 and 9 guns holding up compared to the original P85/89/90 design?

hoytinak · February 24, 2008, 07:50 PM

My P345 is still built like a tank. I've got a little over 10,000 rnds through it and just recently had to change the recoil spring (300 rnds ago) because it was getting weak. Now it's ready for 10,000 more rnds. I love this thing.

rantingredneck · February 24, 2008, 08:00 PM

I don't have as many rounds through my P345 as Hoytinak, but I had enough through it to realize I wanted another. Bought one used yesterday that had been abused a bit finish-wise. Cleaned it up and did some polishing work. Looks great. We'll see how she shoots next weekend. Didn't get to the range this week.

David the Gnome · February 24, 2008, 08:05 PM

The P345 is definitely not what I would call a lightweight, it's still built like a tank. I'm hoping that the new weapons Ruger is bringing out carry on the tank-like reliability, just in a more svelte package.

wjkuleck · February 24, 2008, 08:54 PM

Didn't Patrick Sweeney do 5- or 6-thousand rounds through the SR9 for a gun magazine just recently?

Regards,

Walt

justin10985 · February 24, 2008, 10:53 PM

Well so far so good. I love my SR9. It seems very durable. Of course im not going swimming with it or plan on replacing it as my hammer in my tool shed either. But it seems to be what Ruger prides itself on, and that is good quality.

DENALI · February 24, 2008, 11:12 PM

Not to flame anyone, and not to get flamed, Ruger's new boys just haven't done it for me. I've owned two of the 345's with both being defective, though thats not what ultimately turned me off to the company. I've heard this and that great report on their CS, but my experience left me far more impressed with their arrogance! It's not that the 345's just suck, they don't! They just didn't live up to the hype, Ruger's and the gunpress.
Now after just having read Ayoob's review in the publication "Guns", for the first time I feel I've met up with an honest exploration of their new SR9 pistol, and surprise, it's actually in an American gunrag, a place where propaganda and the truth often travel hand in hand.
Hey, these may well be a great pistol someday, but it ain't today. Anyone who breaks down and buy's one of them after reading Ayoob's little scrawl is IMHO a fool indeed!
Yet Ruger will always have a spot in my heart because they've always made one hell of a revolver, sadly this IMO has never translated to their centerfire pistol's..

**JohnKSa** · February 24, 2008, 11:25 PM

There have been several issues noted with the SR9 pistols on the Ruger forum, however these could easily be teething problems with a new design rather than an indication of an overall problem with the company.

I do agree that there is definitely an Old Ruger and a New Ruger Company...

B.N.Real · February 25, 2008, 12:08 AM

Ruger really has no choice to slim down their pistol designs.

All their competitors have beat them with slim designs to market.

There may be some early problems but Ruger will work their butts off to get any problems out of their production lines.

I look forward to what their compact 9mm autos turn out as.

Hopefully,(I expect it to be) some great pistols.

RCJ · February 25, 2008, 12:55 AM

Hmm, more positive comments than I was expecting, to be honest. I haven't shot any of the new models, but for some reason the SR9 just didn't feel solid when I handled it at a store. Any new design can have teething issues like John mentioned (be it guns, cars or game consoles) - here's hoping that's the case and we can keep enjoying reasonably priced, quality arms from an American company. I can't wait to see how the .380 does.

Thanks for all the responses guys!

Unbreakable · February 25, 2008, 01:26 AM

Doesn't that 380 just look like a Kel-Tec with ruger stamped on it?

**JohnKSa** · February 25, 2008, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Well, I hope the "new" Ruger starts selling 20 round factory mags for the mini 30.

It is my understanding that Ruger is now packaging 20 round mags with at least some of their Mini14 rifles but I don't have a hard source for that information at this time.

rantingredneck · February 25, 2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

It is my understanding that Ruger is now packaging 20 round mags with at least some of their Mini14 rifles but I don't have a hard source for that information at this time.

That's straight off the Ruger website at this time John. They're doing an "NRA Edition" of the Mini 14 that comes with 20 round mags. The MSRP on it is high, not sure what the street price looks like.

Not sure if this is an indication that they'll start selling 20 rounders by themselves to the general public but it's a good indication that it might be coming.

Koblenz · February 25, 2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Not sure if this is an indication that they'll start selling 20 rounders by themselves to the general public but it's a good indication that it might be coming.

If they are going to sell to the public they damned sure need to hurry. 2009 is rapidly approaching and all three of the leading candidates are gun grabbers. I would expect another "assault weapons" ban by the summer of 2009, and much worse than the one passed by Clinton.

Whirlwind06 · February 25, 2008, 01:45 PM

Don't know if this is the new Ruger or old. But I have seen a few posts on THR and Ruger forums saying that Ruger want the customers of the SR9 to pay $9.00 for a redesigned mag release, that fixes a problem with some of the early SR9s.

It is not that 9 bucks is a lot of money, it just the seems to be a really bad attitude to take with a customer having a problem with a new pistol.

On the same note, if the LCP is wear intolerant like the Kel-Tec .380 are you going to be sending checks to Ruger every few months to replace springs and what not?

The Lovemaster · February 25, 2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Didn't Patrick Sweeney do 5- or 6-thousand rounds through the SR9 for a gun magazine just recently?

It was 12k rounds in a big hurry, with no cleaning of any sort. It was in Guns and Ammo.

Quote:

Doesn't that 380 just look like a Kel-Tec with ruger stamped on it?

Yup, but with what appear to be better fit and finish.

My question is should I buy an LCP now or wait a while till any bugs are ironed out.

old_ironsights · February 25, 2008, 04:22 PM

"...sacrificing the tank-like durability and rock-solid reliability that the older Ruger..." is purely speculative and leading comment, RCJ. You don't know that the 'new' Ruger designs and materials or form and function are inferior in any manner to the 'old'.

Why not speculate on why they might be far superior?

DENALI · February 25, 2008, 05:26 PM

About that 12,000 rounds through the new SR9 as claimed by G&A, you're satisfied with those claims? I'm not! I'll be frank, it's BS.
I don't believe for one second that you or I can purchase any Ruger centerfire pistol and run 12,000 consecutive rounds without cleaning and expect it to be anywhere remotely close to 100%! Offhand hits at 200-yards, not bloody likely.
Hey, enjoy your pistol if you've got one and it's decent, just don't expect us, "the level headed few" to buy into all of that G&A BS! It's not like Ruger needs any help selling them....

ShootingNut · February 25, 2008, 05:37 PM

Good point, that's what keeps me buying a Smith & Wesson product, SERVICE & WARRANTY with no hassle, and they pay shipping both ways.
That said, I have NEVER had to use it for any of my Smiths.
I seriously looked at the new Ruger, but think I'm inclined to go with a
Smith M&P9, as my M&P40 has been so great!
Regards,
SN

Whirlwind06 · February 25, 2008, 10:14 PM

ShootingNut
Yeah the M&P 9mm is looking really good to me right now. Just sold my P89 so I want another hi-cap wonder 9. The SR9 looks nice but I guess I will wait and see how it shakes out in a few years.

shepherddogs · February 25, 2008, 10:32 PM

I'm pretty much pro Ruger but I handled an SR9 yesterday for the 1st time. It felt great in my hand but when I racked the slide it was awful. Like somebody put a handful of sand in it. It was the roughest action I ever felt on a handgun.

RCJ · February 26, 2008, 03:02 AM

Wow ironsights, didn't mean to start a flame contest. I was simply referring their reputation for building physically robust guns that are correspondingly tough. For over ten years, the centerfire theme from Ruger was big, heavy and utterly reliable (the P89 through P97). Then, only one year after Bill Ruger's death in 2002, the uncharacteristically lightweight and slim P345 is introduced to rave reviews, followed soon by the SR9 and now they have what appears to be a slightly reinforced Kel-Tec with their name on it. I don't say these things as negatives, but rather as noticable breaks from tradition.

The old formula for Rugers was to achieve ruggedness inexpensively with liberal application of steel. I look at the formula kinda like "There's fast, cheap and good, pick 2" but instead here I saw Ruger picking cheap and good at the expense of a slim design. Now that they have slim models at the same price point, either they have sacrificed "good" or they've engineered a new way around the equation. I can imagine improved materials design would allow for that. I didn't mean to be leading, it just seemed an obvious possibility. My question was meant to see which route was most likely based on the community's experiences.

And if you thought I had it in for Ruger, the price difference between .45 and 9mm ammo is the biggest reason I didn't buy a P345 instead of a CZ-75B as my first gun. It may still be my second.

armoredman · February 26, 2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rantingredneck

Not sure if this is an indication that they'll start selling 20 rounders by themselves to the general public but it's a good indication that it might be coming.

Ruger has assured me twice they have NO intention of selling over 5 round magazines to the general unwashed, other than the hideously overpriced NRA Mini-14. That IS the Mini I always wanted, but for that price, I'll save a few more pennies and get a DSA FAL.

Boarhunter · February 26, 2008, 10:58 AM

Yesterday, I read that Vice President Bob Stutler, a true gun guy, retired from Ruger and was replaced by an engineer formerly in the automotive business. I am curious to see the impact, good or bad, of that move on the part of Ruger.

Boarhunter

easyG · February 26, 2008, 11:32 AM

Personally, I like the direction that Ruger seems to be heading in.
If they are going to stay competitive with the other big dogs in the firearms industry, they simply cannot ignore the demand for stiker-fired polymer pistols.

February 24, 2008, 07:42 PM	#1
RCJ Member Join Date: September 22, 2007 Posts: 62	The "new" Ruger company They started the new wave of Rugers with the P345, now the SR9 is out on the market and their .380 pocket pistol is on the way. Here's the discussion I wanted to start: are the new attributes of slimmer lines and lighter weights sacrificing the tank-like durability and rock-solid reliability that the older Ruger semis are known for? How are the new .45 and 9 guns holding up compared to the original P85/89/90 design?

February 24, 2008, 11:25 PM	#8
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 25,569	There have been several issues noted with the SR9 pistols on the Ruger forum, however these could easily be teething problems with a new design rather than an indication of an overall problem with the company. I do agree that there is definitely an Old Ruger and a New Ruger Company... __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

February 25, 2008, 12:08 AM	#9
B.N.Real Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Posts: 4,092	Ruger really has no choice to slim down their pistol designs. All their competitors have beat them with slim designs to market. There may be some early problems but Ruger will work their butts off to get any problems out of their production lines. I look forward to what their compact 9mm autos turn out as. Hopefully,(I expect it to be) some great pistols. Last edited by B.N.Real; February 25, 2008 at 12:09 AM. Reason: addition

February 25, 2008, 05:37 PM	#19
ShootingNut Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2006 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,475	Whirlwind Good point, that's what keeps me buying a Smith & Wesson product, SERVICE & WARRANTY with no hassle, and they pay shipping both ways. That said, I have NEVER had to use it for any of my Smiths. I seriously looked at the new Ruger, but think I'm inclined to go with a Smith M&P9, as my M&P40 has been so great! Regards, SN

February 24, 2008, 07:50 PM	#2
hoytinak Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 5,721	My P345 is still built like a tank. I've got a little over 10,000 rnds through it and just recently had to change the recoil spring (300 rnds ago) because it was getting weak. Now it's ready for 10,000 more rnds. I love this thing.

February 24, 2008, 08:00 PM	#3
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	I don't have as many rounds through my P345 as Hoytinak, but I had enough through it to realize I wanted another. Bought one used yesterday that had been abused a bit finish-wise. Cleaned it up and did some polishing work. Looks great. We'll see how she shoots next weekend. Didn't get to the range this week.

February 24, 2008, 08:05 PM	#4
David the Gnome Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,092	The P345 is definitely not what I would call a lightweight, it's still built like a tank. I'm hoping that the new weapons Ruger is bringing out carry on the tank-like reliability, just in a more svelte package.

February 24, 2008, 08:54 PM	#5
wjkuleck Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2007 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 1,220	Didn't Patrick Sweeney do 5- or 6-thousand rounds through the SR9 for a gun magazine just recently? Regards, Walt

February 24, 2008, 10:53 PM	#6
justin10985 Junior member Join Date: October 22, 2006 Posts: 241	Well so far so good. I love my SR9. It seems very durable. Of course im not going swimming with it or plan on replacing it as my hammer in my tool shed either. But it seems to be what Ruger prides itself on, and that is good quality.

February 24, 2008, 11:12 PM	#7
DENALI Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Location: Northwestern WI Posts: 103	Not to flame anyone, and not to get flamed, Ruger's new boys just haven't done it for me. I've owned two of the 345's with both being defective, though thats not what ultimately turned me off to the company. I've heard this and that great report on their CS, but my experience left me far more impressed with their arrogance! It's not that the 345's just suck, they don't! They just didn't live up to the hype, Ruger's and the gunpress. Now after just having read Ayoob's review in the publication "Guns", for the first time I feel I've met up with an honest exploration of their new SR9 pistol, and surprise, it's actually in an American gunrag, a place where propaganda and the truth often travel hand in hand. Hey, these may well be a great pistol someday, but it ain't today. Anyone who breaks down and buy's one of them after reading Ayoob's little scrawl is IMHO a fool indeed! Yet Ruger will always have a spot in my heart because they've always made one hell of a revolver, sadly this IMO has never translated to their centerfire pistol's..

February 25, 2008, 12:55 AM	#10
RCJ Member Join Date: September 22, 2007 Posts: 62	Hmm, more positive comments than I was expecting, to be honest. I haven't shot any of the new models, but for some reason the SR9 just didn't feel solid when I handled it at a store. Any new design can have teething issues like John mentioned (be it guns, cars or game consoles) - here's hoping that's the case and we can keep enjoying reasonably priced, quality arms from an American company. I can't wait to see how the .380 does. Thanks for all the responses guys!

February 25, 2008, 01:26 AM	#11
Unbreakable Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2006 Posts: 171	Doesn't that 380 just look like a Kel-Tec with ruger stamped on it?

February 25, 2008, 01:45 PM	#15
Whirlwind06 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2006 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 998	Don't know if this is the new Ruger or old. But I have seen a few posts on THR and Ruger forums saying that Ruger want the customers of the SR9 to pay $9.00 for a redesigned mag release, that fixes a problem with some of the early SR9s. It is not that 9 bucks is a lot of money, it just the seems to be a really bad attitude to take with a customer having a problem with a new pistol. On the same note, if the LCP is wear intolerant like the Kel-Tec .380 are you going to be sending checks to Ruger every few months to replace springs and what not?

February 25, 2008, 04:22 PM	#17
old_ironsights Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2004 Location: ~ OKLAHOMA CITY ~ Posts: 380	"...sacrificing the tank-like durability and rock-solid reliability that the older Ruger..." is purely speculative and leading comment, RCJ. You don't know that the 'new' Ruger designs and materials or form and function are inferior in any manner to the 'old'. Why not speculate on why they might be far superior?

February 25, 2008, 05:26 PM	#18
DENALI Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2008 Location: Northwestern WI Posts: 103	About that 12,000 rounds through the new SR9 as claimed by G&A, you're satisfied with those claims? I'm not! I'll be frank, it's BS. I don't believe for one second that you or I can purchase any Ruger centerfire pistol and run 12,000 consecutive rounds without cleaning and expect it to be anywhere remotely close to 100%! Offhand hits at 200-yards, not bloody likely. Hey, enjoy your pistol if you've got one and it's decent, just don't expect us, "the level headed few" to buy into all of that G&A BS! It's not like Ruger needs any help selling them....

February 25, 2008, 10:14 PM	#20
Whirlwind06 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2006 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 998	ShootingNut Yeah the M&P 9mm is looking really good to me right now. Just sold my P89 so I want another hi-cap wonder 9. The SR9 looks nice but I guess I will wait and see how it shakes out in a few years.

February 25, 2008, 10:32 PM	#21
shepherddogs Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 1,007	I'm pretty much pro Ruger but I handled an SR9 yesterday for the 1st time. It felt great in my hand but when I racked the slide it was awful. Like somebody put a handful of sand in it. It was the roughest action I ever felt on a handgun.

February 26, 2008, 03:02 AM	#22
RCJ Member Join Date: September 22, 2007 Posts: 62	Wow ironsights, didn't mean to start a flame contest. I was simply referring their reputation for building physically robust guns that are correspondingly tough. For over ten years, the centerfire theme from Ruger was big, heavy and utterly reliable (the P89 through P97). Then, only one year after Bill Ruger's death in 2002, the uncharacteristically lightweight and slim P345 is introduced to rave reviews, followed soon by the SR9 and now they have what appears to be a slightly reinforced Kel-Tec with their name on it. I don't say these things as negatives, but rather as noticable breaks from tradition. The old formula for Rugers was to achieve ruggedness inexpensively with liberal application of steel. I look at the formula kinda like "There's fast, cheap and good, pick 2" but instead here I saw Ruger picking cheap and good at the expense of a slim design. Now that they have slim models at the same price point, either they have sacrificed "good" or they've engineered a new way around the equation. I can imagine improved materials design would allow for that. I didn't mean to be leading, it just seemed an obvious possibility. My question was meant to see which route was most likely based on the community's experiences. And if you thought I had it in for Ruger, the price difference between .45 and 9mm ammo is the biggest reason I didn't buy a P345 instead of a CZ-75B as my first gun. It may still be my second.

February 26, 2008, 10:58 AM	#24
Boarhunter Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2005 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 526	Yesterday, I read that Vice President Bob Stutler, a true gun guy, retired from Ruger and was replaced by an engineer formerly in the automotive business. I am curious to see the impact, good or bad, of that move on the part of Ruger. Boarhunter

February 26, 2008, 11:32 AM	#25
easyG Junior member Join Date: August 30, 2004 Location: Right here! Posts: 972	Personally, I like the direction that Ruger seems to be heading in. If they are going to stay competitive with the other big dogs in the firearms industry, they simply cannot ignore the demand for stiker-fired polymer pistols.