General Die Question

kmeyer · December 25, 2006, 08:09 PM

Merry Christmas everyone!

I'm putting together my list to place a order for my equipment. I plan to reload the following:

45colt light target rounds in a revolver
44mag deer hunting rounds for revolver
30.06 deer hunting rounds for a bolt lock
223 Rem rifle for Predator hunting for a single shot break barrel

I know for the pistol dies I want carbide so I don't have to lube them. I also plan to buy "Lee" dies as I'm ordering the "Lee Anniversary" kit. I'm trying to figure out if I need a 2,3 or 4 die pistol set. For the rifle I need to determine if I need a 2 or 3 die set.

Every time I think I have this figured out, another question pops up.

**Bud Helms** · December 25, 2006, 08:30 PM

'Got a reloading manual? Way a long time ago, they helped me get started. They are better today than they were then.

rn22723 · December 25, 2006, 08:53 PM

Your first step is buying the best reference book or what I call Reloading for Dummies or The ABC's of Reloading from Krause Publications.

There are several great reloading manuals of the real kind not the freebee ones! Paperback manuals are good for cross referencing data, at times. For meaty manuals a person can not go wrong with the Lyman48th and Sierra. One must always look at the loads when you compare data. Especially in larger calibers as some data might be using different brass from yours. Case in point Hodgdon used WW brass to work up loads with, whereas Sierra used Fed cases in their 308 Winchester loading information.

Press - Single Stage or Turret presses are the best way to learn before advancing to any kind of progressive press. You will always have need for a single stage press. Redding and RCBS are good sources of all kinds of presses. RCBS Rockchucker Supreme for a single stage and Redding T7 for a turret press are basically the gold standard for press types.

Dies - I like Redding Dies, and I would get the carbide expander ball upgrade for bottle neck rifle cases. Dillon makes carbide rifle sizer dies, but you still need to use case lube and make sure you lube the inside of the case neck, too. I would just stick with regular dies for rifle cartridges. Dillon makes die sets specifically for their press so to speak, meaning that it does not come with a case mouth belling die; Redding makes a set of dies for progressive presses, too. I like Forster competition seaters, and they can be had as an individual item. Dies are pretty much threaded universally, except for Lyman 310 dies, and Dillon dies for the Square Deal N. Accuracy nuts will use hand dies, and they require an arbor press be used.

Shell holders (if the die set doesn't have them like Lee) or the appropriate shell plate for the progressive press. Remember that many shell holders work for more then one cartridge. I would do some home work, especially if you get a Dillon. Some cartridge conversions might only require you to get powder funnel for the new cartridge.

A tumbler will be a good investment, as clean cases will not harm you dies. There are vibratory and rotary tumblers out there. I like corn cob media treated with some Iosso case polish. You can get walnut in bulk at Petco or Pet Smart. Bulk corn cob grit is a great way to reduce the cost of commercially supplied media, because you pay through the nose for the treated media from other vendors.

MTM makes great loading block tray that handles most cartridges.

Case Lube is great for both conventional dies, and to treat your brass used in a progressive press even with carbide dies. That extra lubricity makes the cycling of the press a tad slicker! Dillon spray lube works well for shake and bake application. I like Imperial Die Wax for rifle cartridges when FL sizing.

Case Neck Brush to clean bottleneck rifle cases

Dial Calipers

Case Trimmer (Lee works, but Possum Hollow is better, Wilson makes the best hand powered Lathe trimmer, and Giraud is the best powered Trimmer)

Deburring/Chamfering Tool

Primer Pocket Cleaner and uniformer

Primer Flip Tray is needed for loading pick up tubes for some primer systems like the Dillon.

Priming Tool (I like the RCBS (now even better with universal shell holder, but Sinclair makes the best)

Powder Scale - remember that is always better to have a mechanical scale as a back up to any electronic scale.

Powder Funnel kit with drop tubes especially if you intend to use powders like Varget.

Powder Trickler (used to tweak powder charges )

Powder Measure (nice for faster powder charges it does require a bit of learning curve to get consistent powder charges sort of rhythm thing) standard with progressive presses, but the RCBS Uniflow is nice! Redding makes a better one, and Harrell is the gold standard!

Hammer Type Bullet Puller (for taking down the boo boo's)

Ammo boxes and labels

A notebook for recording your results! Saves covering the same ground twice!

A chronograph is great when working up loads, but is more a luxury in the beginning.

arkie2 · December 25, 2006, 08:58 PM

You can buy the classic turret press at Midway for $80, about $45 less than at the Lee site and add components and still come out for about the same money or a little more if you plan on buying the kit you're talking about direct from Lee. You'll like the turret press a whole lot more than the single stage press in that anniversary kit.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=814175

Rimrod · December 25, 2006, 09:45 PM

The extra die in each set is a factory crimp die. For the rifle it puts a military type crimp on the bullet, even if it doesn't have a crimp groove (cannelure). If you have sufficient neck tension you really don't need them for a single shot or bolt action although some people like to use them anyway. If you had them you could always try loading with and without the FCD to see which is more accurate out of your gun.

For handguns the factory crimp die gives a standard crimp, the purpose is to resize the case after loading to make sure it chambers easily. The best way to reload handgun ammo is to seat and crimp in two different steps, so you would be adding one more step whether you use the FCD or seat and crimp seperately. I don't care for the handgun FCDs because if the round has a bulge it may deform the bullet while smoothing the case out, but it can come in handy at some times.

Basically if the cost isn't too great to make a difference get the extra die. You don't have to use them, but they are there if you want them.

kmeyer · December 25, 2006, 10:34 PM

Thank you Rimrod for answering the question. I do have several manuals, but they don't talk about the different sets.

amamnn · December 26, 2006, 04:39 PM

If you have the Lee EQ you might want a copy of Richard Lee's "Modern Reloading" he has a lot of good general reloading info, load data, and some info specific to using Lee EQ. Well worth the money.

December 25, 2006, 08:09 PM	#1
kmeyer Junior Member Join Date: October 17, 2004 Posts: 10	General Die Question Merry Christmas everyone! I'm putting together my list to place a order for my equipment. I plan to reload the following: 45colt light target rounds in a revolver 44mag deer hunting rounds for revolver 30.06 deer hunting rounds for a bolt lock 223 Rem rifle for Predator hunting for a single shot break barrel I know for the pistol dies I want carbide so I don't have to lube them. I also plan to buy "Lee" dies as I'm ordering the "Lee Anniversary" kit. I'm trying to figure out if I need a 2,3 or 4 die pistol set. For the rifle I need to determine if I need a 2 or 3 die set. Every time I think I have this figured out, another question pops up.

December 25, 2006, 08:30 PM	#2
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	'Got a reloading manual? Way a long time ago, they helped me get started. They are better today than they were then.

December 25, 2006, 08:53 PM	#3
rn22723 Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2001 Location: Burbs of Minneapolis Posts: 676	Your first step is buying the best reference book or what I call Reloading for Dummies or The ABC's of Reloading from Krause Publications. There are several great reloading manuals of the real kind not the freebee ones! Paperback manuals are good for cross referencing data, at times. For meaty manuals a person can not go wrong with the Lyman48th and Sierra. One must always look at the loads when you compare data. Especially in larger calibers as some data might be using different brass from yours. Case in point Hodgdon used WW brass to work up loads with, whereas Sierra used Fed cases in their 308 Winchester loading information. Press - Single Stage or Turret presses are the best way to learn before advancing to any kind of progressive press. You will always have need for a single stage press. Redding and RCBS are good sources of all kinds of presses. RCBS Rockchucker Supreme for a single stage and Redding T7 for a turret press are basically the gold standard for press types. Dies - I like Redding Dies, and I would get the carbide expander ball upgrade for bottle neck rifle cases. Dillon makes carbide rifle sizer dies, but you still need to use case lube and make sure you lube the inside of the case neck, too. I would just stick with regular dies for rifle cartridges. Dillon makes die sets specifically for their press so to speak, meaning that it does not come with a case mouth belling die; Redding makes a set of dies for progressive presses, too. I like Forster competition seaters, and they can be had as an individual item. Dies are pretty much threaded universally, except for Lyman 310 dies, and Dillon dies for the Square Deal N. Accuracy nuts will use hand dies, and they require an arbor press be used. Shell holders (if the die set doesn't have them like Lee) or the appropriate shell plate for the progressive press. Remember that many shell holders work for more then one cartridge. I would do some home work, especially if you get a Dillon. Some cartridge conversions might only require you to get powder funnel for the new cartridge. A tumbler will be a good investment, as clean cases will not harm you dies. There are vibratory and rotary tumblers out there. I like corn cob media treated with some Iosso case polish. You can get walnut in bulk at Petco or Pet Smart. Bulk corn cob grit is a great way to reduce the cost of commercially supplied media, because you pay through the nose for the treated media from other vendors. MTM makes great loading block tray that handles most cartridges. Case Lube is great for both conventional dies, and to treat your brass used in a progressive press even with carbide dies. That extra lubricity makes the cycling of the press a tad slicker! Dillon spray lube works well for shake and bake application. I like Imperial Die Wax for rifle cartridges when FL sizing. Case Neck Brush to clean bottleneck rifle cases Dial Calipers Case Trimmer (Lee works, but Possum Hollow is better, Wilson makes the best hand powered Lathe trimmer, and Giraud is the best powered Trimmer) Deburring/Chamfering Tool Primer Pocket Cleaner and uniformer Primer Flip Tray is needed for loading pick up tubes for some primer systems like the Dillon. Priming Tool (I like the RCBS (now even better with universal shell holder, but Sinclair makes the best) Powder Scale - remember that is always better to have a mechanical scale as a back up to any electronic scale. Powder Funnel kit with drop tubes especially if you intend to use powders like Varget. Powder Trickler (used to tweak powder charges ) Powder Measure (nice for faster powder charges it does require a bit of learning curve to get consistent powder charges sort of rhythm thing) standard with progressive presses, but the RCBS Uniflow is nice! Redding makes a better one, and Harrell is the gold standard! Hammer Type Bullet Puller (for taking down the boo boo's) Ammo boxes and labels A notebook for recording your results! Saves covering the same ground twice! A chronograph is great when working up loads, but is more a luxury in the beginning.

December 25, 2006, 08:58 PM	#4
arkie2 Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2006 Posts: 475	You can buy the classic turret press at Midway for $80, about $45 less than at the Lee site and add components and still come out for about the same money or a little more if you plan on buying the kit you're talking about direct from Lee. You'll like the turret press a whole lot more than the single stage press in that anniversary kit. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=814175

December 25, 2006, 09:45 PM	#5
Rimrod Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Behind enemy lines Posts: 1,309	The extra die in each set is a factory crimp die. For the rifle it puts a military type crimp on the bullet, even if it doesn't have a crimp groove (cannelure). If you have sufficient neck tension you really don't need them for a single shot or bolt action although some people like to use them anyway. If you had them you could always try loading with and without the FCD to see which is more accurate out of your gun. For handguns the factory crimp die gives a standard crimp, the purpose is to resize the case after loading to make sure it chambers easily. The best way to reload handgun ammo is to seat and crimp in two different steps, so you would be adding one more step whether you use the FCD or seat and crimp seperately. I don't care for the handgun FCDs because if the round has a bulge it may deform the bullet while smoothing the case out, but it can come in handy at some times. Basically if the cost isn't too great to make a difference get the extra die. You don't have to use them, but they are there if you want them.

December 25, 2006, 10:34 PM	#6
kmeyer Junior Member Join Date: October 17, 2004 Posts: 10	Thank you Rimrod for answering the question. I do have several manuals, but they don't talk about the different sets.

December 26, 2006, 04:39 PM	#7
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	If you have the Lee EQ you might want a copy of Richard Lee's "Modern Reloading" he has a lot of good general reloading info, load data, and some info specific to using Lee EQ. Well worth the money.