Magazine capacity and OAL on .40 S&W.

Big Bunny · May 31, 2000, 09:46 PM

Now, I started with an OAL of 1.17" on my .40 S&W with good results for up to 6 rounds on steel plates, no feeding or ejection problems and good accuracy.

So far so good...Next, I tried to load 12 rounds and could only get 8 in the magazine of my CZ-75 before it got very stiff and would accept no more of the reloaded 155 SWC drylubed linotype ammo without great effort,all being in Winchester cases.

So, I removed the spring and follower and all the rounds fitted OK, but with the spring pressure on it, it put the rounds at a slight angle and this increased friction on the ammo making loading the extra rounds difficult, I feel.

Now I really need 12 rounds for a service match we shoot over here and so I put the OAL down to the minimum recommended of 1.1" and achieved a full magazine as required.

But feeding problems occured with the first shot when OAL was 1.1" causing a scrape/dent on the case, but with 1.13" (as recommended by LEE and others), it was OK and reliable as long as the slide release was used on the initial loading with an open slide.

Gentlemen- your comments and wisdom would be appreciated on this which IS a reloading matter, the CZ-75 9mm takes 15rds (as per the info I have) but the .40"S&W(10mm) only takes 12 due to the extra tiny 1mm in size?

Seems wrong to me somehow, as I can get 14 rounds of blue plastic Glock dummy-rounds in the darned thing!

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***Big Bunny***

**Bud Helms** · June 1, 2000, 05:40 AM

BB,

I am bumfuzzled by the problem you describe. Any more details?

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Sensop

TFL End of Summer Meet, August 12th and 13th, 2000

Big Bunny · June 1, 2000, 07:02 PM

Crikey Sensop...what would you like ...the serial number of the weapon !

Seriously, thank you for replying.

I feel the problem is due to the smaller size of the 9mm round and the Police 40 S&W Glock blue plastic dummy rounds as well. They may do that for ease of training etc.

I tried a full 12 round mag last night( a bit of muzzle flash though and accuracy was effected due to my flinch!)and all is well ...with no feeding or brass marking problems.

Seems it may have been excess OAL as well as a new magazine spring causing the friction and difficulty to load I reported.

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***Big Bunny***

**Mal H** · June 1, 2000, 08:31 PM

To be honest Big Bunny, I'm right in there with sensop as far as "What the hey are you talkin' 'bout?"

I read your post last night about 4 times (seriously) and still didn't understand what you had said.

Let's run this up the flag pole: It sounds like you have 2 CZ75's, one in 9mm and one in .40 S&W. You can get 15 rounds of 9mm in the 9mm 15 round mag, but you can only get 8 rounds in your .40 12 round mag (or is it supposed to be a .40 15 round mag??) if the OAL is longer than 1.1". [???] You can get 12 in it if the OAL is 1.1" but they misfeed. You can, however, get 14 dummy rounds in the 12 round mag or is it the 9mm 15 round mag? (Since they're Glock dummy rounds, they'll probably blow up after the first use anyway.

)

Is the above clear? Not to me.

[This message has been edited by Mal H (edited June 01, 2000).]

Stephen Ewing · June 1, 2000, 10:32 PM

Big Bunny, I just started loading for a CZ-75 Champion in .40. I've loaded a grand total of 30 rounds through it, but it seemed to like 1.117 inches, and both Sierra and Speer tell me 1.135 is max OAL.

And I hope you're happy. I was enjoying the fact that the .40 doesn't lose capacity, and then you go and rub those two rounds in my face.

Mal is right about the Glock dummy rounds. Those things are dangerous :P

Steve

Big Bunny · June 1, 2000, 10:33 PM

Well Mal H and Sensop ...it is pretty simple really!

#1..I have one pistol - a brand new jet black .40 S&W CZ-75.( I didn't buy S&W on purpose).

#2..But I have a CZ " 9mm PARA" factory instruction booklet (in typical commo style, in 5 languages - as usual printed on poor quality paper) BUT the correct test fire results and warranty papers for my .40cal conversion (made in 8/1995) attached to this.

#3..Hence I did not know know the capacity of the two supplied magazines marked for 40cal, as I had only 9mm PARA data, you see.

OK so far...? I will go on...

#4..The loading capacity was hindered by an excess OAL initially.This has been sorted out, but was a surprise to me at the time.

#5.. With the 40S&W "dummy" plastic training ammo can get 14 in the magazine, but my loaded rounds fill it with 12 only. This is the maximum I require - so this is OK now too, but interesting anyway.

#6..I mentioned it on this FL web because I thought it was perhaps interesting to other reloaders, as well as learning more about this problem myself. This scenario is new to me, as previously I was a 22RF auto, ISSF and .38 revolver shooter only(not including pistol cal longarms - lever and tube magazined). ... but I had not realised the confusion I would create - or the reactions caused.

Sorry

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***Big Bunny***

Big Bunny · June 1, 2000, 10:47 PM

Stephen Ewing, nice to hear a friendly voice and I took note of your experiences with OAL below the recommended figure(Tut, Tut).Your reloading experiences are interesting indeed.

Is your newCZ the super-heavy, single action only 4 magazines, IPSC approved model? They don't sell the 'Champion" as such here.

If so.. NICE!

They are $1,700AUD here, when a basic CZ-75 is $850AUD to $950AUD(Aussie dollar is currently about 58c USD.)

Thanks for you reply, it was appreciated -

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***Big Bunny***

**Mal H** · June 1, 2000, 11:39 PM

BB, I think you have mistaken genuine confusion for unfriendly posts. Trust me I was confused. It wasn't at all clear that you didn't have the two different calibers and that you didn't know the exact capacity of your magazines and that that was the main question. Anyway, glad it all worked out.

Big Bunny · June 2, 2000, 12:54 AM

Mal H...no offence was intended or taken, but I guess frustration shows when you are really on your own over here with an unfriendly public and government.
After Aussie politicians were forced by the Media into banning most Semi-auto and Pump longarms 1997 after the Port Arthur Massacre, we now have a big push lead by a few people to ban all CF magazine-fed pistols ..a bit like the UK, where incidentially firearm crime has markedly increased after their total bans.(as predicted)

A lot of (to me ) difficult problems are commomplace and probably easily fixed in USA, but here I am probably one of only 20 civilians in our entire area's 100,000 population licenced and owning a high-capacity centrefire auto-loader.

Its a privilage which can be withdrawn at a moments notice

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***Big Bunny***

Stephen Ewing · June 2, 2000, 01:32 AM

BB, as best I can tell, 1.117 inches is only below max, not min. My 165 is three thousandths of an inch shorter than Speer's 180 test load, and I only put 5 grains of Bullseye behind it, while Speer lists 5.8 max on that. I checked the brass after each round to look for any visible signs of excessive pressure. I am trying to avoid explosions, rest assured.

The new pistol is actually my Dad's. I'm just in charge of working up a load both that it likes, and that he has powder for. I admit, I'm going to hate to give it back to him. I'm still trying to figure out when exactly we got to the point that I bought dies, brass, and bullets for a caliber I don't even own? It was much cheaper when he was doing that for me.

He went nuts on the CZ 75 and got the .40 with the triple ports, single action, etc. It really is beautiful. Over here, there's an IPSC version, and then the Champion, so he got the IPSC that's not the IPSC, if that makes any sense at all, and he only got two mags with it. www.cz-usa.com will have a picture of what they're calling the Champion. He's having a hard time getting most Americans to grasp why he had to have one, as we both got a head start over most Yanks on loving CZ when we lived in Melbourne almost 20 years ago. I not only don't think they ever made a bad gun, I don't think they ever made a mediocre or merely good one. Everything I've ever seen with that little CZ on it has been nothing less than magnificent.

I believe I will seat the next batch out a little, partially to see if it engages the rifling any better. Lower pressures wouldn't hurt my feelings, either.

Steve

**Bud Helms** · June 2, 2000, 01:58 AM

BB,

Sorry I couldn't help on this one.

Hang in there, buddy!

Big Bunny · June 3, 2000, 07:14 PM

Thanks everyone, Stephen I have e-mailed you on your posting.

FL for ever !!

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***Big Bunny***

May 31, 2000, 09:46 PM	#1
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Now, I started with an OAL of 1.17" on my .40 S&W with good results for up to 6 rounds on steel plates, no feeding or ejection problems and good accuracy. So far so good...Next, I tried to load 12 rounds and could only get 8 in the magazine of my CZ-75 before it got very stiff and would accept no more of the reloaded 155 SWC drylubed linotype ammo without great effort,all being in Winchester cases. So, I removed the spring and follower and all the rounds fitted OK, but with the spring pressure on it, it put the rounds at a slight angle and this increased friction on the ammo making loading the extra rounds difficult, I feel. Now I really need 12 rounds for a service match we shoot over here and so I put the OAL down to the minimum recommended of 1.1" and achieved a full magazine as required. But feeding problems occured with the first shot when OAL was 1.1" causing a scrape/dent on the case, but with 1.13" (as recommended by LEE and others), it was OK and reliable as long as the slide release was used on the initial loading with an open slide. Gentlemen- your comments and wisdom would be appreciated on this which IS a reloading matter, the CZ-75 9mm takes 15rds (as per the info I have) but the .40"S&W(10mm) only takes 12 due to the extra tiny 1mm in size? Seems wrong to me somehow, as I can get 14 rounds of blue plastic Glock dummy-rounds in the darned thing! ------------------ *Big Bunny*

June 1, 2000, 05:40 AM	#2
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	BB, I am bumfuzzled by the problem you describe. Any more details? ------------------ Sensop TFL End of Summer Meet, August 12th and 13th, 2000

June 1, 2000, 07:02 PM	#3
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Crikey Sensop...what would you like ...the serial number of the weapon ! Seriously, thank you for replying. I feel the problem is due to the smaller size of the 9mm round and the Police 40 S&W Glock blue plastic dummy rounds as well. They may do that for ease of training etc. I tried a full 12 round mag last night( a bit of muzzle flash though and accuracy was effected due to my flinch!)and all is well ...with no feeding or brass marking problems. Seems it may have been excess OAL as well as a new magazine spring causing the friction and difficulty to load I reported. ------------------ *Big Bunny*

June 1, 2000, 08:31 PM	#4
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 17,067	To be honest Big Bunny, I'm right in there with sensop as far as "What the hey are you talkin' 'bout?" I read your post last night about 4 times (seriously) and still didn't understand what you had said. Let's run this up the flag pole: It sounds like you have 2 CZ75's, one in 9mm and one in .40 S&W. You can get 15 rounds of 9mm in the 9mm 15 round mag, but you can only get 8 rounds in your .40 12 round mag (or is it supposed to be a .40 15 round mag??) if the OAL is longer than 1.1". [???] You can get 12 in it if the OAL is 1.1" but they misfeed. You can, however, get 14 dummy rounds in the 12 round mag or is it the 9mm 15 round mag? (Since they're Glock dummy rounds, they'll probably blow up after the first use anyway. ) Is the above clear? Not to me. [This message has been edited by Mal H (edited June 01, 2000).]

June 1, 2000, 10:32 PM	#5
Stephen Ewing Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2000 Posts: 329	Big Bunny, I just started loading for a CZ-75 Champion in .40. I've loaded a grand total of 30 rounds through it, but it seemed to like 1.117 inches, and both Sierra and Speer tell me 1.135 is max OAL. And I hope you're happy. I was enjoying the fact that the .40 doesn't lose capacity, and then you go and rub those two rounds in my face. Mal is right about the Glock dummy rounds. Those things are dangerous :P Steve

June 1, 2000, 10:33 PM	#6
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Well Mal H and Sensop ...it is pretty simple really! #1..I have one pistol - a brand new jet black .40 S&W CZ-75.( I didn't buy S&W on purpose). #2..But I have a CZ " 9mm PARA" factory instruction booklet (in typical commo style, in 5 languages - as usual printed on poor quality paper) BUT the correct test fire results and warranty papers for my .40cal conversion (made in 8/1995) attached to this. #3..Hence I did not know know the capacity of the two supplied magazines marked for 40cal, as I had only 9mm PARA data, you see. OK so far...? I will go on... #4..The loading capacity was hindered by an excess OAL initially.This has been sorted out, but was a surprise to me at the time. #5.. With the 40S&W "dummy" plastic training ammo can get 14 in the magazine, but my loaded rounds fill it with 12 only. This is the maximum I require - so this is OK now too, but interesting anyway. #6..I mentioned it on this FL web because I thought it was perhaps interesting to other reloaders, as well as learning more about this problem myself. This scenario is new to me, as previously I was a 22RF auto, ISSF and .38 revolver shooter only(not including pistol cal longarms - lever and tube magazined). ... but I had not realised the confusion I would create - or the reactions caused. Sorry ------------------ *Big Bunny*

June 1, 2000, 10:47 PM	#7
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Stephen Ewing, nice to hear a friendly voice and I took note of your experiences with OAL below the recommended figure(Tut, Tut).Your reloading experiences are interesting indeed. Is your newCZ the super-heavy, single action only 4 magazines, IPSC approved model? They don't sell the 'Champion" as such here. If so.. NICE! They are $1,700AUD here, when a basic CZ-75 is $850AUD to $950AUD(Aussie dollar is currently about 58c USD.) Thanks for you reply, it was appreciated - ------------------ *Big Bunny*

June 1, 2000, 11:39 PM	#8
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 17,067	BB, I think you have mistaken genuine confusion for unfriendly posts. Trust me I was confused. It wasn't at all clear that you didn't have the two different calibers and that you didn't know the exact capacity of your magazines and that that was the main question. Anyway, glad it all worked out.

June 2, 2000, 12:54 AM	#9
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Mal H...no offence was intended or taken, but I guess frustration shows when you are really on your own over here with an unfriendly public and government. After Aussie politicians were forced by the Media into banning most Semi-auto and Pump longarms 1997 after the Port Arthur Massacre, we now have a big push lead by a few people to ban all CF magazine-fed pistols ..a bit like the UK, where incidentially firearm crime has markedly increased after their total bans.(as predicted) A lot of (to me ) difficult problems are commomplace and probably easily fixed in USA, but here I am probably one of only 20 civilians in our entire area's 100,000 population licenced and owning a high-capacity centrefire auto-loader. Its a privilage which can be withdrawn at a moments notice ------------------ *Big Bunny*

June 2, 2000, 01:32 AM	#10
Stephen Ewing Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2000 Posts: 329	BB, as best I can tell, 1.117 inches is only below max, not min. My 165 is three thousandths of an inch shorter than Speer's 180 test load, and I only put 5 grains of Bullseye behind it, while Speer lists 5.8 max on that. I checked the brass after each round to look for any visible signs of excessive pressure. I am trying to avoid explosions, rest assured. The new pistol is actually my Dad's. I'm just in charge of working up a load both that it likes, and that he has powder for. I admit, I'm going to hate to give it back to him. I'm still trying to figure out when exactly we got to the point that I bought dies, brass, and bullets for a caliber I don't even own? It was much cheaper when he was doing that for me. He went nuts on the CZ 75 and got the .40 with the triple ports, single action, etc. It really is beautiful. Over here, there's an IPSC version, and then the Champion, so he got the IPSC that's not the IPSC, if that makes any sense at all, and he only got two mags with it. www.cz-usa.com will have a picture of what they're calling the Champion. He's having a hard time getting most Americans to grasp why he had to have one, as we both got a head start over most Yanks on loving CZ when we lived in Melbourne almost 20 years ago. I not only don't think they ever made a bad gun, I don't think they ever made a mediocre or merely good one. Everything I've ever seen with that little CZ on it has been nothing less than magnificent. I believe I will seat the next batch out a little, partially to see if it engages the rifling any better. Lower pressures wouldn't hurt my feelings, either. Steve

June 2, 2000, 01:58 AM	#11
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	BB, Sorry I couldn't help on this one. Hang in there, buddy!

June 3, 2000, 07:14 PM	#12
Big Bunny Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 1999 Location: New South Wales - Australia Posts: 605	Thanks everyone, Stephen I have e-mailed you on your posting. FL for ever !! ------------------ *Big Bunny*