.308 load for accuracy

PTaylor · February 17, 2006, 12:27 PM

I've about to purchase some supplies for reloading .308 to do some real accurate shooting. I've read posts about IMR 4895 as well as Hodgden 4895, I'll be loading 168 gr. sierra matchking and 165 gr. gameking out of a Remington 700 vls, 1 in 12 twist 26" heavy barrel. My question is which powder would be a better choice also open to other suggestions. Haven't decided on primers yet, any info will help. Thanks.

jclaude · February 17, 2006, 01:49 PM

Lots of good choices, and 4895 is certainly high on the list. Varget iis very popular. So is IMR 4064 & 4320. Ball powders dispense a little smoother. I'm working with some WW748 right now, but not overly encouraged as of yet. Planning on trying some Ball C2 soon.

azredhawk44 · February 17, 2006, 02:27 PM

I have heard that Winchester primers are formulated to burn ball powder most efficiently, while CCI primers are formulated to burn extruded powder best.

Don't know if that is true or not, but H4895 is extruded. H335 is ball. The explanation I got is that ball powders require a hotter ignition to start them off properly.

H4895 fills the case very well. Should be very unlikely that you will get non-uniform ignition since the powder will always be backed right up to the flash hole. H335 leaves a lot more case volume open.

I've done loading for these, but haven't been to the range to try them out yet. I'll post a related thread later this weekend after getting to shoot.

Bullets I chose:
Hornady Interlock SpirePoint
Remington CoreLokt Pointed SoftPoint
Nosler Ballistic Tip Spitzer
Combined Technologies Partition Gold Moly Spitzer
(all 150gr)

Next order from Midway will get me heavier bullets if this test checks out fine. I'm a novice at loading for 308 with an M1A, so I am very leary of slamfires or overpressure in the gas system. I hear the magic number to fear for bullet weight is 180, but that shouldn't apply to you since you're using a bolt action. Next bullets for me to test will be the Nosler match 155gr, the Hornady match 168gr Moly coat hollowpoint boat tail, Hornady match 168gr hollowpoint boat tail jacketed, Hornady interlock 165gr and Remington Corelokt 165gr. Let me know if you are interested in results from any of those in particular.

The 3 powders I have on hand are H335, H4895 and Reloader15. I just got 200 CCI primers to play with this last week, so my next batch of loads will be with a primer supposedly designed for extruded powders.

Clayfish · February 17, 2006, 03:02 PM

I get good accuracy from H4895 under 125-150 grains and pretty good with 165 grain rem psp core-locked. Reloader 15 is good for the heavier bullets.

jclaude · February 17, 2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Let me know if you are interested in results from any of those in particular.

Always interested in hearing what's going on with load developement for the M1A.

MrGee · February 18, 2006, 03:19 AM

i've used Varget an IMR 4350 in my 700p, 168MK w/ GM210m primer had great group at 100yrds, i haven't tried 4064 or the 175MK as yet, been using 4064 in the 22-250 700 .. you mentioned VLS w/ 1-12 twist here is a barel twist chart

.308 8" For bullets heavier than 220gr.

10" For bullets up to 220 gr.

12" For bullets up to 170 gr.

14"* For bullets up to 168 gr.

15"* For bullets up to 150 gr.

45/70 GOVT. · February 18, 2006, 04:12 PM

I have a vls in 308. I've tired several of the powders mentioned above. I've had good luck with a powder not known to be a 308 powder IMR 3031. I don't know if it has something to do with the 26 inch barrel or not. I got the smallest groups with this powder.

Peter M. Eick · February 19, 2006, 08:34 AM

I use IMR-4895 with Seirra 168 BTHP's. and c-34 primers for my M1A. A couple of tips. The C-34 is a magnum primer, nock down your powder charge a few grains and work up slowly. Good brass and good brass handling makes a big difference. I use gold medal federal and trim every time.

Here is what my Supermatch can do with these loads off the bench. Each target is 50 rounds at 100 yards, off the bench.

Swamp Yankee · February 19, 2006, 09:11 AM

There are a lot of good powders for those bullets

Prior to Varget that I currently use with the 168 Matchkings, I had excellent results with Reloader 15. Both have performed very well. Another dark horse powder that does well in 308 is WW748. If you want something that meters consistantly through the measure WW748 is excellent.
Your rifle will tell you what combimation is best. One thing to keep in mind, particularly with the 308, is the hottest loads are not necessarily the most accurate.

Take Care

azredhawk44 · February 19, 2006, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Always interested in hearing what's going on with load developement for the M1A.

Wish I could give you some useful info.

Went to the range with several interesting loads using all sorts of different bullets and two powder types, incrementing the charge slowly.

Unfortunately, I had no business doing this since I had not shot this rifle in almost 6 months.

Last time I shot it I kept 3" groups with milsurp ammo on the standard iron sights. Musta been beginner's luck finding the right sight picture right away and just sticking with it.

I went this time and my horizontal spread was less than an inch, but my vertical spread was about 7-8". This was after warming up with about 40 rounds of the same milsurp I shot last time.

So, before I can play in the magic M1A reloading game, I need to practice more with milsurp and my sight picture. Oh, well.

Peter M. Eick · February 19, 2006, 10:45 PM

My bet is you are not reseating the M1A to the exact same position on the bags if you are getting vertical stringing. Holding the rifle in the same position, with the same pressure is critical to getting the M1A to shoot off the bench well. Trust me. I have been there and done that far to many times. Fortunately a real bench rest artist gave me some pointers.

L Puckett · February 20, 2006, 03:07 PM

If you are looking for "very accurate", one recipe lately has been good for many is:

Lapua cases
FGM 210M primer
43.5 grn Varget
.015 off lands

This is a good starting point point for the 168 SMK and should be fairly centered in a good node.

LP

B9mmHP · February 20, 2006, 06:27 PM

Peter!

That is one heck of a group, or groups.

Who built that M14, Springfield,Fulton or yourself?

I assume, what you were shooting was the Match King. Do you have a load for hunting, like 150 or 165 gr.?And where did you find the CCI 34 primers? I do understand the slamfire thing and why you use the CCI 34

I have A Chinese Norinco M14s and am trying to work up some hunting loads in 150-165 gr., to shoot pigs in south Texas at 200-250 yds +, and the best I can do as of now is a 2 1/2 to a 3" group at 100 yds, with Barnes 150 gr. bullets and would like to get it lower.

Any help would be appreciated.

Peter M. Eick · February 20, 2006, 08:16 PM

Mine is a stock springfield. Nothing special. I just took it out of the box and started firing. No barrel break in or nothing. Great gun and it shows what they can do.

Yes it is the matchking. Why waste barrel life on a crappy bullet? I buy a decent one and have been happy.

Never shot much other then 155 palmas and 168's out of the Super. My National gets 150's and seems to work ok with them. The C-34's were a special order primer that my dealer got for me. I bought a case of them and still have about 5000 primers left. They are very good and never had a problem with slam fires.

Hunting hots with a m1a? Must be down in south Texas? I am up in Houston so we don't see too many hogs around here....

Try a decent bullet and careful loading. Trim your cases every time, weight your charges, seat your primers by hand. Measure every bullet for length, lots of little things add up to tight groups.

B9mmHP · February 21, 2006, 03:23 PM

Peter.
I will be using the Barnes Tripple shock X 150 gr.on the pigs.

The brass is TZ 80 surplus, primer pocket reamed, flash hole debured,neck turned etc.

I have a 30.06 bolt Vanguard, shoots 1/2 moa, but, the pigs, "15-20 in a group" will be set up for an ambush and will be running, that is the reason for the M14.

The lease is in south Texas near Larado on the border.

The rancher plants about 50 acres in alfalfa and every year, the hogs come in and desimates the fields, and he can`t even get a hay bailer to harvest the hay. He just wants them all Killed, there must be 50-60 hogs on the property plus all the piglets this spring.

PETA would love to watch.

Schmeisser · February 21, 2006, 05:15 PM

Anyone out there with a good recipe for the Nosler 165 gr BT w/ Varget? I am looking for a good hunting load as an alternative to my present target load: 168 gr SMK w/ 41.8 gr Varget. Surprisingly mild load, but it renders 3/8 MOA (before finetuning).

onlybrowning · February 22, 2006, 12:47 AM

I tried every load of Vaget in the book and some that weren't and got no good results eith that same Nosler bullet. I have a Browning with a 22" barrel. Believe it or not, I have got some promising results with IMR 4350 in 165 grain Nosler BT. I also had no luck eith H-4895. I used Federal 210 and 210 M primers for all.

joneb · February 22, 2006, 01:54 AM

Schmeisser, why not Nosler partision for hunting

joneb · February 22, 2006, 01:57 AM

PTaylor, are you after a bench rest load ?

CPLMIKE · February 26, 2006, 12:45 AM

Imr 4895 And Federal 210 Primers

DAVID NANCARROW · February 26, 2006, 05:21 AM

I have a 700 VS which is the same action/bbl length/twist rate as the VLS with a plastic stock. I have tried IMR 4064, RL-15, Varget, H-380, BLC-2, and W748.

Best hunting load for mine comes in with the Reloder 15 and 165 grain boat tails-either Hornady softpoints or Nosler Ballistic tips and Federal 210M primers. Both will group at .5 or better, depending on me, more than the rifle. The 150/155 grain bullets also do well, but tear the meat up a lot more. All of the above powders will keep me inside of an inch, and leads me to believe that powder selection is not as important as bullet selection if you are shooting inside of 400 yards. I must have lucked out, as the seating depth just happens to be the length of the magazine for best accuracy-2.820".

Even tried 180 grain flat base Hornadys which were given to me and they stayed well inside of an inch at 100 yards. I think the difference in twist might show itself at longer distances, but not had the chance to test that theory.

Sagexx2 · March 1, 2006, 02:23 PM

Hi fellas,
I`m a rookie to this forum,just joined a few days ago,and enjoy your the
readings of inquires and replies.
I have been reloading my own ammo since 1958. I have several old
timers I load. Remington mdel 740,in 30-06,and a Remington 740 in 308,
also a custom made 270,with Mauser action,Douglas Supreme barrell in 9-1
twist.I purchased the 270 in white,and my buddy who was Plt Mgr.for
the A.C. Spark Plug Div. of G.M., took it to the plant and had the unit
Utilited,that is running it thru the tanks and having it blued,the same
finish that are on the spark plugs,to this day it still has no wear showing.
Still have the invoice for the 270,purchased from Flaiggs,for the hugh
sum of $78.00,in 1960.
Now,for my question,last week my grandson borrowed the 30-06 to
target shoot.Using my handloads,of 165 gr., Sierra B/T,with 47 grs.,of
Accurate powder,in the Winchester brass twice fired,f/l resized,with the
CCI regular primer.
He returned the rifle,and stated one of the loads had a case separation,
so he came home.He neglected to pick up the spent cartridge.
I inspected the bore and chamber,and did not see any thing of the
remaing cartridge in the chamber,as years ago a case separated in
my 270,and was noticable,as the bolt extracted a portion of the base.
Upon closer inspection,I seen that the neck of the cartridge
had separated and stuck in its chamber.
Upon extracting the cartridge neck,it had separated at the point
where the shoulder meets the neck,clean break,not jaggged.
Cannot figured what caused this,as the head space is within the
specs. Possibly the brass was at fault.or could he have fired a 270
by error,one that was misplaced in the box by error. the 06 and 270
have same specs,except for the neck.I tried putting a .308 bullet in
the portion of the extracted neck,would not fit,but a .277 did.
It would seem that if a loaded .270 was fired by error that the case
would fire form and not separate.
What else could have happened????????

B9mmHP · March 2, 2006, 05:12 PM

Welcome to TFL.

You listed a lot of possibles.

Does he know what a case separation is? Shame he didn`t bring back the case, that would solve a lot of questions.

Did he borrow it to hunt with, or target shoot? No game, excuse?

Could you have set back the head-space to much? Just questions. No blame on anyone, most of us have messed up at least once.

Too many variables. Just make sure you do every thing right.

February 17, 2006, 12:27 PM	#1
PTaylor Member Join Date: January 20, 2006 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 17	.308 load for accuracy I've about to purchase some supplies for reloading .308 to do some real accurate shooting. I've read posts about IMR 4895 as well as Hodgden 4895, I'll be loading 168 gr. sierra matchking and 165 gr. gameking out of a Remington 700 vls, 1 in 12 twist 26" heavy barrel. My question is which powder would be a better choice also open to other suggestions. Haven't decided on primers yet, any info will help. Thanks.

February 17, 2006, 01:49 PM	#2
jclaude Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Coastal North Carolina Posts: 157	308 powder Lots of good choices, and 4895 is certainly high on the list. Varget iis very popular. So is IMR 4064 & 4320. Ball powders dispense a little smoother. I'm working with some WW748 right now, but not overly encouraged as of yet. Planning on trying some Ball C2 soon.

February 18, 2006, 03:19 AM	#6
MrGee Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 260	Ptaylor i've used Varget an IMR 4350 in my 700p, 168MK w/ GM210m primer had great group at 100yrds, i haven't tried 4064 or the 175MK as yet, been using 4064 in the 22-250 700 .. you mentioned VLS w/ 1-12 twist here is a barel twist chart .308 8" For bullets heavier than 220gr. 10" For bullets up to 220 gr. 12" For bullets up to 170 gr. 14"* For bullets up to 168 gr. 15"* For bullets up to 150 gr.

February 26, 2006, 12:45 AM	#20
CPLMIKE Junior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: CENTRAL VIRGINIA Posts: 14	Powder And Primers Imr 4895 And Federal 210 Primers

March 1, 2006, 02:23 PM	#22
Sagexx2 Junior Member Join Date: February 26, 2006 Posts: 10	What happened??? Hi fellas, I`m a rookie to this forum,just joined a few days ago,and enjoy your the readings of inquires and replies. I have been reloading my own ammo since 1958. I have several old timers I load. Remington mdel 740,in 30-06,and a Remington 740 in 308, also a custom made 270,with Mauser action,Douglas Supreme barrell in 9-1 twist.I purchased the 270 in white,and my buddy who was Plt Mgr.for the A.C. Spark Plug Div. of G.M., took it to the plant and had the unit Utilited,that is running it thru the tanks and having it blued,the same finish that are on the spark plugs,to this day it still has no wear showing. Still have the invoice for the 270,purchased from Flaiggs,for the hugh sum of $78.00,in 1960. Now,for my question,last week my grandson borrowed the 30-06 to target shoot.Using my handloads,of 165 gr., Sierra B/T,with 47 grs.,of Accurate powder,in the Winchester brass twice fired,f/l resized,with the CCI regular primer. He returned the rifle,and stated one of the loads had a case separation, so he came home.He neglected to pick up the spent cartridge. I inspected the bore and chamber,and did not see any thing of the remaing cartridge in the chamber,as years ago a case separated in my 270,and was noticable,as the bolt extracted a portion of the base. Upon closer inspection,I seen that the neck of the cartridge had separated and stuck in its chamber. Upon extracting the cartridge neck,it had separated at the point where the shoulder meets the neck,clean break,not jaggged. Cannot figured what caused this,as the head space is within the specs. Possibly the brass was at fault.or could he have fired a 270 by error,one that was misplaced in the box by error. the 06 and 270 have same specs,except for the neck.I tried putting a .308 bullet in the portion of the extracted neck,would not fit,but a .277 did. It would seem that if a loaded .270 was fired by error that the case would fire form and not separate. What else could have happened????????

February 17, 2006, 02:27 PM	#3
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	I have heard that Winchester primers are formulated to burn ball powder most efficiently, while CCI primers are formulated to burn extruded powder best. Don't know if that is true or not, but H4895 is extruded. H335 is ball. The explanation I got is that ball powders require a hotter ignition to start them off properly. H4895 fills the case very well. Should be very unlikely that you will get non-uniform ignition since the powder will always be backed right up to the flash hole. H335 leaves a lot more case volume open. I've done loading for these, but haven't been to the range to try them out yet. I'll post a related thread later this weekend after getting to shoot. Bullets I chose: Hornady Interlock SpirePoint Remington CoreLokt Pointed SoftPoint Nosler Ballistic Tip Spitzer Combined Technologies Partition Gold Moly Spitzer (all 150gr) Next order from Midway will get me heavier bullets if this test checks out fine. I'm a novice at loading for 308 with an M1A, so I am very leary of slamfires or overpressure in the gas system. I hear the magic number to fear for bullet weight is 180, but that shouldn't apply to you since you're using a bolt action. Next bullets for me to test will be the Nosler match 155gr, the Hornady match 168gr Moly coat hollowpoint boat tail, Hornady match 168gr hollowpoint boat tail jacketed, Hornady interlock 165gr and Remington Corelokt 165gr. Let me know if you are interested in results from any of those in particular. The 3 powders I have on hand are H335, H4895 and Reloader15. I just got 200 CCI primers to play with this last week, so my next batch of loads will be with a primer supposedly designed for extruded powders.

February 17, 2006, 03:02 PM	#4
Clayfish Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2005 Location: Valdosta, GA Posts: 953	I get good accuracy from H4895 under 125-150 grains and pretty good with 165 grain rem psp core-locked. Reloader 15 is good for the heavier bullets.

February 18, 2006, 04:12 PM	#7
45/70 GOVT. Member Join Date: January 1, 2005 Location: Southeast Tennessee Posts: 57	I have a vls in 308. I've tired several of the powders mentioned above. I've had good luck with a powder not known to be a 308 powder IMR 3031. I don't know if it has something to do with the 26 inch barrel or not. I got the smallest groups with this powder.

February 19, 2006, 08:34 AM	#8
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	I use IMR-4895 with Seirra 168 BTHP's. and c-34 primers for my M1A. A couple of tips. The C-34 is a magnum primer, nock down your powder charge a few grains and work up slowly. Good brass and good brass handling makes a big difference. I use gold medal federal and trim every time. Here is what my Supermatch can do with these loads off the bench. Each target is 50 rounds at 100 yards, off the bench.

February 19, 2006, 09:11 AM	#9
Swamp Yankee Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2000 Location: Northeastern Ct. Posts: 1,019	There are a lot of good powders for those bullets Prior to Varget that I currently use with the 168 Matchkings, I had excellent results with Reloader 15. Both have performed very well. Another dark horse powder that does well in 308 is WW748. If you want something that meters consistantly through the measure WW748 is excellent. Your rifle will tell you what combimation is best. One thing to keep in mind, particularly with the 308, is the hottest loads are not necessarily the most accurate. Take Care

February 19, 2006, 10:45 PM	#11
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	My bet is you are not reseating the M1A to the exact same position on the bags if you are getting vertical stringing. Holding the rifle in the same position, with the same pressure is critical to getting the M1A to shoot off the bench well. Trust me. I have been there and done that far to many times. Fortunately a real bench rest artist gave me some pointers.

February 20, 2006, 03:07 PM	#12
L Puckett Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2002 Location: Mid-Tennessee Posts: 150	If you are looking for "very accurate", one recipe lately has been good for many is: Lapua cases FGM 210M primer 43.5 grn Varget .015 off lands This is a good starting point point for the 168 SMK and should be fairly centered in a good node. LP

February 20, 2006, 06:27 PM	#13
B9mmHP Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 465	Peter! That is one heck of a group, or groups. Who built that M14, Springfield,Fulton or yourself? I assume, what you were shooting was the Match King. Do you have a load for hunting, like 150 or 165 gr.?And where did you find the CCI 34 primers? I do understand the slamfire thing and why you use the CCI 34 I have A Chinese Norinco M14s and am trying to work up some hunting loads in 150-165 gr., to shoot pigs in south Texas at 200-250 yds +, and the best I can do as of now is a 2 1/2 to a 3" group at 100 yds, with Barnes 150 gr. bullets and would like to get it lower. Any help would be appreciated.

February 20, 2006, 08:16 PM	#14
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	Mine is a stock springfield. Nothing special. I just took it out of the box and started firing. No barrel break in or nothing. Great gun and it shows what they can do. Yes it is the matchking. Why waste barrel life on a crappy bullet? I buy a decent one and have been happy. Never shot much other then 155 palmas and 168's out of the Super. My National gets 150's and seems to work ok with them. The C-34's were a special order primer that my dealer got for me. I bought a case of them and still have about 5000 primers left. They are very good and never had a problem with slam fires. Hunting hots with a m1a? Must be down in south Texas? I am up in Houston so we don't see too many hogs around here.... Try a decent bullet and careful loading. Trim your cases every time, weight your charges, seat your primers by hand. Measure every bullet for length, lots of little things add up to tight groups.

February 21, 2006, 03:23 PM	#15
B9mmHP Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 465	Peter. I will be using the Barnes Tripple shock X 150 gr.on the pigs. The brass is TZ 80 surplus, primer pocket reamed, flash hole debured,neck turned etc. I have a 30.06 bolt Vanguard, shoots 1/2 moa, but, the pigs, "15-20 in a group" will be set up for an ambush and will be running, that is the reason for the M14. The lease is in south Texas near Larado on the border. The rancher plants about 50 acres in alfalfa and every year, the hogs come in and desimates the fields, and he can`t even get a hay bailer to harvest the hay. He just wants them all Killed, there must be 50-60 hogs on the property plus all the piglets this spring. PETA would love to watch.

February 21, 2006, 05:15 PM	#16
Schmeisser Member Join Date: November 14, 2005 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 52	Anyone out there with a good recipe for the Nosler 165 gr BT w/ Varget? I am looking for a good hunting load as an alternative to my present target load: 168 gr SMK w/ 41.8 gr Varget. Surprisingly mild load, but it renders 3/8 MOA (before finetuning).

February 22, 2006, 12:47 AM	#17
onlybrowning Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2005 Location: Saratoga Springs, NY Posts: 279	I tried every load of Vaget in the book and some that weren't and got no good results eith that same Nosler bullet. I have a Browning with a 22" barrel. Believe it or not, I have got some promising results with IMR 4350 in 165 grain Nosler BT. I also had no luck eith H-4895. I used Federal 210 and 210 M primers for all.

February 22, 2006, 01:54 AM	#18
joneb Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Location: Central , OR Posts: 1,888	Schmeisser, why not Nosler partision for hunting

February 22, 2006, 01:57 AM	#19
joneb Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Location: Central , OR Posts: 1,888	PTaylor, are you after a bench rest load ?

February 26, 2006, 05:21 AM	#21
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	I have a 700 VS which is the same action/bbl length/twist rate as the VLS with a plastic stock. I have tried IMR 4064, RL-15, Varget, H-380, BLC-2, and W748. Best hunting load for mine comes in with the Reloder 15 and 165 grain boat tails-either Hornady softpoints or Nosler Ballistic tips and Federal 210M primers. Both will group at .5 or better, depending on me, more than the rifle. The 150/155 grain bullets also do well, but tear the meat up a lot more. All of the above powders will keep me inside of an inch, and leads me to believe that powder selection is not as important as bullet selection if you are shooting inside of 400 yards. I must have lucked out, as the seating depth just happens to be the length of the magazine for best accuracy-2.820". Even tried 180 grain flat base Hornadys which were given to me and they stayed well inside of an inch at 100 yards. I think the difference in twist might show itself at longer distances, but not had the chance to test that theory.

March 2, 2006, 05:12 PM	#23
B9mmHP Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2000 Location: Texas Posts: 465	Headspace? Welcome to TFL. You listed a lot of possibles. Does he know what a case separation is? Shame he didn`t bring back the case, that would solve a lot of questions. Did he borrow it to hunt with, or target shoot? No game, excuse? Could you have set back the head-space to much? Just questions. No blame on anyone, most of us have messed up at least once. Too many variables. Just make sure you do every thing right.