homemade full auto, dont get all ancy yet i havent even explained it

[21pz]bergen · December 29, 2005, 10:50 PM

K, is it lawful to go down into your basment, take a huge block of good steel, and carve it into a belt fed machine gun. the important part here is the caliber, could u chamber it for a round that doesent exist? therefore, there isent ammo for it? ATF woudl have to give u the benifit of the doubt right?

Casp_A · December 29, 2005, 11:11 PM

The ATF doesn't give anyone the benefit of the doubt ever.

Wildalaska · December 30, 2005, 05:04 AM

U cant start carvin machine guns out of blocks of steel until u leave your teenage years, K?

WildleavinfortheadultworldnowAlaska

Ac1d0v3r1d3 · December 30, 2005, 09:35 AM

manufacturing machineguns is illegal.
the caliber dosent matter.

smince · January 2, 2006, 02:03 PM

How do you know if it will work if there isn't a round for it

JohnBrowning · January 2, 2006, 05:35 PM

You should try it out so that we can laugh when you are sent up the river.

Dave Haven · January 2, 2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

K, is it lawful to go down into your basment, take a huge block of good steel, and carve it into a belt fed machine gun.

It was prior to 19 May, 1986.
I carved a huge block of good steel into an MG34 receiver in 1983 after ATF approved my Form 1.
Now, it can get you 10 years at "Club Fed". Along with all the sex you don't want.:barf:

Added on edit... the caliber doesn't matter. None of the parts matter, except for the receiver. The receiver is the machine gun.

Cowled_Wolfe · January 3, 2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

K, is it lawful to go down into your basment, take a huge block of good steel, and carve it into a belt fed machine gun.

You said it yourself: "belt fed machine gun."

FYI, it doesn't matter if the ammo exists or not. If you want a machinegun, wait 'till you turn 18, and buy a legal one.

Wolfe... (Btw, for your sake, I hope your machining skills are better than your typing skills.)

JohnBrowning · January 3, 2006, 10:01 PM

I just remembered something that should clue you in as to how bad of an idea this is. WWII Japanese knee mortars are considered NFA weapons, and the ammo for those has been unavailable for decades.

tkara3 · January 4, 2006, 09:34 AM

if you do, and when you go to the lock up, they will be happy to see you, and will be playing with what you have. dont do it.

ColonelRivers · January 6, 2006, 11:31 PM

I am a licensed class 2 manufacture.
#1 Manufacturing any Machine gun without the proper license is illegal.
#2 There is also the need for an SOT "Special ocupational tax stamp"
$500 a year.
You can file a form one and get permission to build an SBR or SBS
Dont build a machine gun unless you want to spend a lot of time in the big house with BUBBA

impact · January 7, 2006, 01:44 AM

Ok then here is a question. At what point is a gun considered a gun. If you were going to build a full auto gun. Say a gun that does not exist. Then you start to build the gun. At what point is it a gun?

I don't plan to build a gun. but thought this would be a good question.

Casp_A · January 7, 2006, 02:46 AM

Normally a gun (the receiver actually) is considered a legal firearm when 81% of the machine work has been done on the receiver forging. This is why you can buy 80% complete machined reciever forgings without having to go through an FFL and finish them yourself for a non-transferable title 1 firearm.

If you try to build a machinegun and it's a design that doesn't exist, you could try to claim that the work on it isn't done and it's not 81% yet, but if it forms or is close to forming a fuctioning firearm I don't think that argument will hold much water with BATFE. So yeah, bad, bad idea.

kozak6 · January 7, 2006, 02:54 AM

Actually, the whole 80% thing is bunk. For all practical purposes, it's a marketing term. The only way to really tell is to pack it up and mail it to the BATFE for classification.

ColonelRivers · January 7, 2006, 11:36 PM

Kozak is correct
As a class two manfacture I get asked this question all the time.
The fact is just a selector for an AR-15 is considereda machine gun by ATF
A drop in auto sear is a Machine gun. If you are going to fool with this 80% stuff just get an 07 FFL pay your $500 SOT and build all the goodies you like and stay out of jail. There is no gray area with ATF its cut and dried if you are sniffing around the edges you have intent to build and that is all they need to make you wish you had not.

have fun, shoot straight and be safe.
CR

Jbar4Ranch · January 8, 2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnBrowning

You should try it out so that we can laugh when you are sent up the river.

I wouldn't laugh at anyone busted by "The System" for "violating" corrupt, unjust, illegal and unconstitutional "laws".

A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Whether [21pz]bergen is 14, 24, or 74,
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
~Benjamin Franklin, July 4, 1776

Surely we can answer his questions without criticism or ridicule, yes?

CleverNickname · January 8, 2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:

The fact is just a selector for an AR-15 is considereda machine gun by ATF

Wrong. A selector for an AR15 is just a gun part. A selector for an M16 is also just a gun part. The ATF might consider a selector for an M16 along with some other M16 fire control parts that are installed in an AR15 lower receiver to be a machine gun, because they could cause a situation where the gun could slam-fire. However, just installing an M16 selector in an AR15 would not cause this situation.

cosmolinelover · January 8, 2006, 10:57 PM

Bravo Jbar4 +1

impact · January 9, 2006, 12:48 AM

Quote:

The fact is just a selector for an AR-15 is considered a machine gun by ATF
A drop in auto sear is a Machine gun.

More questions. I have seen new recivers that were made for full auto or three shot burst. Just the reciver. No parts! If the reciver was registered as a semi auto thats OK?

also I'm thinking back when all the or most all the M-14s were cut and made usless. But then some were welded and made to work again. How was this done to be legal. and then sold to civilians. I'm thinking it was done before 1986?

Also I had someone tell me that the national guard had trigger groups to drop into a M-14 to make the gun full auto. For civilians just in case the SHTF? But that was a long time ago and they no longer have them.

Sorry for all the questions. I like to learn things like this that I don't know. Helps keep me out of trouble. I have lots of guns and love to shoot and reload. I love my guns so I want to stay as far away from trouble as I can.

DannyB KY · January 15, 2006, 12:58 PM

Interesting questions!!!

Hopefully, some of the knowledgable folks here will answer!!

FirstFreedom · January 15, 2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

I wouldn't laugh at anyone busted by "The System" for "violating" corrupt, unjust, illegal and unconstitutional "laws".

A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Whether [21pz]bergen is 14, 24, or 74,
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.
~Benjamin Franklin, July 4, 1776

Surely we can answer his questions without criticism or ridicule, yes?

Bravo, Amen, Kudos, +1, Ditto.

MovieGuns · January 19, 2006, 12:59 PM

Hey Guys, Im pretty new to this forum. Today is my first day. Im taking some time off before I go to College. I have alot of time on my hands, and got to thinking about something. Im sure most of you have seen the movie aliens, and all the other sequels to it, so Im sure your familiar with the M41A Pulse Rifle. I was wondering what it would take (legaly, and parts wise) to build one. The props that were used were a M1A Thompson and a Frenchie SAS shotgun I believe. I also plan to have a digital counter just like in the movie, so ill know when I have to reload. So with those in mind, do you think it is possible to achieve a real life version of that wonderful sci fi weapon. Im not real good on the jargon speak so keep replies simple and detailed please. You can laugh at me if you think Im stupide or its a waste of time, but hey I just cant bear to see something that looks so cool that just doesnt work. Let me know what you guys think about it. By the way it would be burst shot or full auto.

Thanks

Ben Swenson · January 19, 2006, 01:45 PM

Quote:

By the way it would be burst shot or full auto.

Do a little reading.

Start with the National Firearms Act of 1934.
Then read the Gun Control Act of 1968.
Finally read the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, specifically the amendment added by Rep. Hughes and supposedly passed by a voice vote.

guntotin_fool · January 19, 2006, 02:54 PM

For certain firearms, The sear, or the trigger group IS the firearm in the eyes of the ATF, For example, I had a H&K trigger group that was registered and would make three machine guns depending on what i put it in to. But in the eyes of the ATF it was just the trigger group that made it a machine gun and it was in fact legal to assemble it in other platforms i owned to make different varieties

shaggy · January 19, 2006, 03:14 PM

Have you seen Long Mountain Outfitter's website? LMO bought out many of the movie guns from Stembridge Gun Rental several years ago. Here's a link to the Aliens II piece...

http://www.longmountain.com/movieguns/Aliens2

As to your question about building one, you could build a semi auto one, but not a full auto. If you wanted a full auto version you'd have to start by buying a registered full auto Thompson (which will cost you a bare minimum of about $13,000-$15,000 on today's market for even a low-end Auto-Ordnance gun) and adding the hollywood "makeup" to make it look like the Aliens gun.

December 30, 2005, 09:35 AM	#4
Ac1d0v3r1d3 Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2005 Location: Goldendale, Washington Posts: 439	its still a machine gun manufacturing machineguns is illegal. the caliber dosent matter.

January 4, 2006, 09:34 AM	#10
tkara3 Member Join Date: October 6, 2005 Location: n.e. ohio Posts: 21	be happy with what you have if you do, and when you go to the lock up, they will be happy to see you, and will be playing with what you have. dont do it.

January 6, 2006, 11:31 PM	#11
ColonelRivers Junior Member Join Date: January 6, 2006 Posts: 8	ColonelRivers I am a licensed class 2 manufacture. #1 Manufacturing any Machine gun without the proper license is illegal. #2 There is also the need for an SOT "Special ocupational tax stamp" $500 a year. You can file a form one and get permission to build an SBR or SBS Dont build a machine gun unless you want to spend a lot of time in the big house with BUBBA

January 7, 2006, 11:36 PM	#15
ColonelRivers Junior Member Join Date: January 6, 2006 Posts: 8	ColonelRivers Kozak is correct As a class two manfacture I get asked this question all the time. The fact is just a selector for an AR-15 is considereda machine gun by ATF A drop in auto sear is a Machine gun. If you are going to fool with this 80% stuff just get an 07 FFL pay your $500 SOT and build all the goodies you like and stay out of jail. There is no gray area with ATF its cut and dried if you are sniffing around the edges you have intent to build and that is all they need to make you wish you had not. have fun, shoot straight and be safe. CR

January 19, 2006, 12:59 PM	#22
MovieGuns Junior Member Join Date: January 19, 2006 Posts: 2	Custom Guns Hey Guys, Im pretty new to this forum. Today is my first day. Im taking some time off before I go to College. I have alot of time on my hands, and got to thinking about something. Im sure most of you have seen the movie aliens, and all the other sequels to it, so Im sure your familiar with the M41A Pulse Rifle. I was wondering what it would take (legaly, and parts wise) to build one. The props that were used were a M1A Thompson and a Frenchie SAS shotgun I believe. I also plan to have a digital counter just like in the movie, so ill know when I have to reload. So with those in mind, do you think it is possible to achieve a real life version of that wonderful sci fi weapon. Im not real good on the jargon speak so keep replies simple and detailed please. You can laugh at me if you think Im stupide or its a waste of time, but hey I just cant bear to see something that looks so cool that just doesnt work. Let me know what you guys think about it. By the way it would be burst shot or full auto. Thanks

December 29, 2005, 10:50 PM	#1
[21pz]bergen Junior Member Join Date: December 28, 2005 Posts: 4	homemade full auto, dont get all ancy yet i havent even explained it K, is it lawful to go down into your basment, take a huge block of good steel, and carve it into a belt fed machine gun. the important part here is the caliber, could u chamber it for a round that doesent exist? therefore, there isent ammo for it? ATF woudl have to give u the benifit of the doubt right?

December 29, 2005, 11:11 PM	#2
Casp_A Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2004 Posts: 495	The ATF doesn't give anyone the benefit of the doubt *ever.*

December 30, 2005, 05:04 AM	#3
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,171	U cant start carvin machine guns out of blocks of steel until u leave your teenage years, K? WildleavinfortheadultworldnowAlaska

January 2, 2006, 02:03 PM	#5
smince Junior member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Location: Northeast Alabama Posts: 2,580	How do you know if it will work if there isn't a round for it

January 2, 2006, 05:35 PM	#6
JohnBrowning Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2005 Posts: 140	You should try it out so that we can laugh when you are sent up the river.

January 3, 2006, 10:01 PM	#9
JohnBrowning Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2005 Posts: 140	I just remembered something that should clue you in as to how bad of an idea this is. WWII Japanese knee mortars are considered NFA weapons, and the ammo for those has been unavailable for decades.

January 7, 2006, 01:44 AM	#12
impact Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: the great state of Texas Posts: 854	Ok then here is a question. At what point is a gun considered a gun. If you were going to build a full auto gun. Say a gun that does not exist. Then you start to build the gun. At what point is it a gun? I don't plan to build a gun. but thought this would be a good question.

January 7, 2006, 02:46 AM	#13
Casp_A Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2004 Posts: 495	Normally a gun (the receiver actually) is considered a legal firearm when 81% of the machine work has been done on the receiver forging. This is why you can buy 80% complete machined reciever forgings without having to go through an FFL and finish them yourself for a non-transferable title 1 firearm. If you try to build a machinegun and it's a design that doesn't exist, you could try to claim that the work on it isn't done and it's not 81% yet, but if it forms or is close to forming a fuctioning firearm I don't think that argument will hold much water with BATFE. So yeah, bad, bad idea.

January 7, 2006, 02:54 AM	#14
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	Actually, the whole 80% thing is bunk. For all practical purposes, it's a marketing term. The only way to really tell is to pack it up and mail it to the BATFE for classification.

January 8, 2006, 10:57 PM	#18
cosmolinelover Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 254	Bravo Jbar4 +1

January 15, 2006, 12:58 PM	#20
DannyB KY Member Join Date: October 29, 2005 Posts: 23	Interesting questions!!! Hopefully, some of the knowledgable folks here will answer!!

January 19, 2006, 02:54 PM	#24
guntotin_fool Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2004 Posts: 1,446	For certain firearms, The sear, or the trigger group IS the firearm in the eyes of the ATF, For example, I had a H&K trigger group that was registered and would make three machine guns depending on what i put it in to. But in the eyes of the ATF it was just the trigger group that made it a machine gun and it was in fact legal to assemble it in other platforms i owned to make different varieties

January 19, 2006, 03:14 PM	#25
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	Movieguns Have you seen Long Mountain Outfitter's website? LMO bought out many of the movie guns from Stembridge Gun Rental several years ago. Here's a link to the Aliens II piece... http://www.longmountain.com/movieguns/Aliens2 As to your question about building one, you could build a semi auto one, but not a full auto. If you wanted a full auto version you'd have to start by buying a registered full auto Thompson (which will cost you a bare minimum of about $13,000-$15,000 on today's market for even a low-end Auto-Ordnance gun) and adding the hollywood "makeup" to make it look like the Aliens gun.