Bryco, llama, bersa, star, pheonix...thinking about buying one....Any Suggestions?

tom650604 · January 30, 2005, 05:38 PM

I'm thinking about buying one of these or maybe two. This will be my second handgun. Yes, I'm low on $$$ therefore will settle for cheaper models cause I spend all the money on my SA-XD 40s&w stainless. I read on the forum and other places that most of the time these guns are terrible. Are they as bad as most people say they are? If so, why are there so many people looking to buy them when I see them on sell at gunbroker, auctionarms and other places.

Looking for .22, .32, .38, or 9mm. Any of these will work.

Any suggestions will be apreciated.

m0ntels · January 30, 2005, 05:50 PM

Bersa makes a fine cheap gun. Owned one for a while. It was all steel, full ambi controls, shot nice, and was cheap and reliable. All the other brands...well, you know what to expect. Bersa/FireStorm have a good backing here though. That's what had me buy mine when I wanted a cheapie pistol. I kinda miss it sometimes.

Randy

txinvestigator · January 30, 2005, 05:50 PM

Find a used S&W or Ruger revolver. They can readiy be had for around the same price, and you need not worry abut the quaity issues.

omegapd · January 30, 2005, 05:58 PM

I agree on the used revolver. Can't go wrong there. If you're set on the semi, I'd go Bersa or Llama. I've had good luck with my Llama Commander in .38 Super with no problems. Both Bersa and Llama are made in the same place now, too.

Sir William · January 30, 2005, 06:02 PM

Bersas arexcellent pistols. I would feel well armed with any caliber Bersa. Llamas have been good to me. Revolvers and autos have been 100% for me. Star made very good autos. They have been known to break firing pins with dryfiring though. There are replacements that solve that problem. I carried a Star Super B for awhile. 0 problems. I have owned Jennings, Bryco, Lorcin, Phoenix, Davis and Stallard autos. They are mostly POJ. A Davis derringer in 38 Special used to be my deep concealment arm. I also competed with a Davis derringer reamed out to 38 S&W in CAS side matches. I had no troubles with any Davis derringer. I owned 22, 22 Magnum, a couple of 38 Specials and a better derringer for concealment would be hard to find for $90.00. I am thinking about a Star BM 9MM myself. www.jgsales.com

woodland · January 30, 2005, 06:21 PM

I have had a Llama .45 hi-cap for quite awhile, and put many many many rounds through it, and have never had one single jam, ftf, or anything. It is also quite accurate. Finish is a little rough on them, but function has been perfect with mine. And that's what I got it for, so I'm happy with it.

beenthere · January 30, 2005, 06:28 PM

I see this is your first posting so welcome to TFL. I haven't owned all of those makes, but I can give you a rundown on those I hae owned, before everyone else starts jumping on you.

First, you USUALLY get what you pay for.

I've owned 4 Jennings (They're also Bryco) 22's trying to get a couple that worked well. 2 had to be sent back to the factory because they wouldn't load or eject. 50% isn't very good odds with firearms. While they'd be WAY down the list of desireable defense guns, if they are there and you had to use it ... you want them to work every time.

I owned 1 Bryco 9mm several years ago. Big, clunky, didn't fit my hand, it worked for the 2 magazines I ran through it but I decided it wasn't for me. I've Heard horror stories about them blowing up but I never saw one.

I bought a Star Model BM 9mm Luger Cal. through my local dealer from J&G Sales. About 30% of the blueing is worn off. It shoots well. Looks like a compact 1911 Colt 45ACP. I bought 4 extra magazines for it and of the total of 5 one magazine doesn't work well. On my experience only, I would recommend it as a "shooter". As I said, the blueing is worn so if pristine appearance is your bag you wouldn't like it. I like to shoot and appearance is very secondary.Ad says $129 but you have to add cost of extra magazines, transfer costs from my dealer, postage. Total about $210.

For the same price and also through J&G you can buy a Makarov 9X18 New or nearly new. Extra magazines are a little cheaper than the Star. This is the one I would recommend and surplus ammo on the net is in the vicinity of $65 for 500 rounds. Sturdy, reliable but you'll probably need a set of rubber grips ($12-$15). I know you didn't ask about that one. I think most folks here find the Makarov to be a good value.

I've never owned a Phoenix or a Bersa but I'm pretty sure I've seen some good comments on at least certain models of the Bersa. I'm sure you'll get lots of opinion from others shortly.

Good luck.

WillBrayjr · January 30, 2005, 06:31 PM

Bersas and Makarovs. Both are cheap and dependable little pistols. Believe or not there's alot very good guns for a low budget.

txinvestigator · January 30, 2005, 06:39 PM

I have never owned any of these guns, but as an instructor I have seen MANY come through my classes.

I absolutely hate to criticize any brand of gun, as someone who owns one always takes it personal. So please understand if you own one and it works for you thats all that matters for you.

Due to experience and observations, I would NEVER own one of the guns listed by the OP in the title of this thread, and depend on it for protection.

No offense to ANYONE who may own one.

tom650604 · January 30, 2005, 06:44 PM

This is while I come to post here for professional and friendly advise. This post was up for no more than 30 minutes and I've already got some great advise from great people like you guys.

Thanks a lot !

Anyone else !

seb5 · January 30, 2005, 07:05 PM

I can't add much to what has already been said but would feel fine with either a Bersa or Star. I would steer clear of the others. I had bad luck with Llama but others have had good luck. YMMV.

38splfan · January 30, 2005, 08:22 PM

Have shot both and both are comfortable and reliable. I currently own and sometimes carry a Star BM.
$129 from J&G. 2x extra mags @$14.95 ea.
Cleaned well, did some file/polish work and a quick cold re-blue. Shoots good, looks good. Comfortable in the hand and Uncle Mike's sz. 15 holsters will fit well.

Jehzsa · January 30, 2005, 08:28 PM

I'll say it this way. This is what I own right now. Walther PP Super 9x18U, Walther PP Super 9k, Benelli B82 9x18U, Sig P230 9x18U, Bulgarian Mil/surp Makarov 9x18M, East German Makarov 9x18M, Walther P5 9L.

Next in line, Star M45.

michael t · January 30, 2005, 09:47 PM

First Bersa and Llama are not made same place Bersa ,South America and Llama, Spain Same dist. Get a Bersa in 380 great little pistol Llama are so so Yes I own one and mine is perfect for malfuction drills.
You should also look at used S&W rev.
I have a Star Firestar in 40 that a great little gun But heavy for its size.

jim276 · January 30, 2005, 09:54 PM

I recently bought a used Astra A-75 in .45- it's a knockoff of a Sig 220 but is all steel and seems to be built very well, you might want to look for one of these. They came in 9mm .40 and .45, and judging by some of the other postings i've read about them, most people have been happy with them.

Ala Dan · January 30, 2005, 10:47 PM

I sell a lot of the Bersa Dutotone .380's at $199.88 each. NONE has
come back for warranty work. Well made, and operates just like a
Walther PPK or PPK/S. Only downfall is the fact that the little Bersa
only comes with one magazine; and extra magazines are expensive.

Best Wishes,

DT Guy · January 30, 2005, 10:50 PM

Jehzsa,

You seem determined to NEVER be able to buy ammo at Wal-Mart, eh?

Larry

Jehzsa · January 30, 2005, 11:07 PM

Hello Larry,

WWB for the M45. Lots of plinking there.
But Fiocchi for SD. Unless I can find a cartload of Geco 45HP.

HosMan · January 30, 2005, 11:37 PM

I can recommend the Star Firestar in 9mm. Had one and sold,now I wish I had`nt.Heavy as hell(like toting a brick around) but a wonderful shooter and the all steel construction means it is durable and low felt recoil.The one I had was a single action but I think following mods were DA.

No expearience with the Bersa but I everything I`ve heard about them has been positive.

Have you considered picking up a Bulgarian Makarov(9x18)?They are sturdy and reliable and lots of goodies out there for upgrades.I`m very happy with mine and the price can`t be beat(usually under $200.00).

My dad had a Jennings .22LR.It was a real jam fest when shot.
Sorry,no expearience with the others on your list.

Happy Hunting!

Hos

gpannicke · January 31, 2005, 09:30 PM

I have a Bryco (Jennings) 380 auto and would not suggest it to be used for anything but beating up at the range. Mine chokes on ANY hollow point ammo you put in it. It is fun to shoot only if you feed it a steady diet of cheapo round nose ammo - otherwise you'll be fiddling with feed and eject failures all day.

-G

MountainJoe · January 31, 2005, 10:35 PM

I have a Bersa Thunder 380 and like it so far (only put about 200 rounds through it). It is a well built gun for the money (about $200). At only 5'8" and 160 I have small hands, and this gun "feels right" to me. It might be too small if you are a large person with larger hands, but for an average to slightly built guy or most women, it is comfortable. Doesn't quite have the stopping power of a 9mm, but as they say, the .22 (or .380) you have on you is better than the .45 in the safe at home.

gfen · January 31, 2005, 11:39 PM

Another vote for the Makarov.

I decided recently that my newly aquired CCW wasn't going ot do me much good if my only handgun was a 5" 1911, so the hunt was on.

In the end, it was between the Bersa .380 and a Mak. My brother's had a Mak for probably close to 15 years, and he's always been happy with it.

I figure in 15 years, I'll still be happy with mine now, too. Cheap, compact, reliable. Sure, its a bit heavier than the Bersa, but it has a safety (required for my mental well being), and not only that but the safety is down to fire.

The Bersa goes up. Seemed utterly confusing to me.

You can chamber your Mak in .380 if you prefer, but you can find 9x18 Mak at a decent gun store, or just order in bulk (I just picked up a 1000rd case for $110+s/h).

9x19 · February 1, 2005, 12:07 AM

I own a number of Bersa handguns in .22LR, .32ACP and .380ACP and have never had a moments trouble with any of them. They are excellent values IMO.

Dadx4 · February 1, 2005, 04:49 PM

I can vouch for the Bersa Thunder .380...carry one every day and have over 300 rounds through it with no problems at all. Well, except for a box of Wolf lacquer coated rounds that would occasionally stovepipe. Changed to Georgia Arms 95 gr. FMJ for target use and have never had another hiccup. I use Gold Dots JHP from Georgia Arms for carry and have had no problems at all with that round either.

Gun works every time, is comfortable and balanced, and is way more accurate than I am (though I am working on that part every chance I get). For the money, I don't think you can do any better.

Dadx4

TacticalReload · February 1, 2005, 04:53 PM

Your best bet for a rock bottom price on a subcompact would probably be a lightly used Taurus .38special. I have a friend with a Bersa .380 who is happy with it. I also have a friend who used to own a Jennings .25 that was basically a single shot because it wouldn't feed anything ever.

January 30, 2005, 05:38 PM	#1
tom650604 Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Twin Cities, MN USA Posts: 315	Bryco, llama, bersa, star, pheonix...thinking about buying one....Any Suggestions? I'm thinking about buying one of these or maybe two. This will be my second handgun. Yes, I'm low on $$$ therefore will settle for cheaper models cause I spend all the money on my SA-XD 40s&w stainless. I read on the forum and other places that most of the time these guns are terrible. Are they as bad as most people say they are? If so, why are there so many people looking to buy them when I see them on sell at gunbroker, auctionarms and other places. Looking for .22, .32, .38, or 9mm. Any of these will work. Any suggestions will be apreciated.

January 30, 2005, 06:28 PM	#7
beenthere Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2004 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 460	Bryco , Star, etc I see this is your first posting so welcome to TFL. I haven't owned all of those makes, but I can give you a rundown on those I hae owned, before everyone else starts jumping on you. First, you USUALLY get what you pay for. I've owned 4 Jennings (They're also Bryco) 22's trying to get a couple that worked well. 2 had to be sent back to the factory because they wouldn't load or eject. 50% isn't very good odds with firearms. While they'd be WAY down the list of desireable defense guns, if they are there and you had to use it ... you want them to work every time. I owned 1 Bryco 9mm several years ago. Big, clunky, didn't fit my hand, it worked for the 2 magazines I ran through it but I decided it wasn't for me. I've Heard horror stories about them blowing up but I never saw one. I bought a Star Model BM 9mm Luger Cal. through my local dealer from J&G Sales. About 30% of the blueing is worn off. It shoots well. Looks like a compact 1911 Colt 45ACP. I bought 4 extra magazines for it and of the total of 5 one magazine doesn't work well. On my experience only, I would recommend it as a "shooter". As I said, the blueing is worn so if pristine appearance is your bag you wouldn't like it. I like to shoot and appearance is very secondary.Ad says $129 but you have to add cost of extra magazines, transfer costs from my dealer, postage. Total about $210. For the same price and also through J&G you can buy a Makarov 9X18 New or nearly new. Extra magazines are a little cheaper than the Star. This is the one I would recommend and surplus ammo on the net is in the vicinity of $65 for 500 rounds. Sturdy, reliable but you'll probably need a set of rubber grips ($12-$15). I know you didn't ask about that one. I think most folks here find the Makarov to be a good value. I've never owned a Phoenix or a Bersa but I'm pretty sure I've seen some good comments on at least certain models of the Bersa. I'm sure you'll get lots of opinion from others shortly. Good luck.

January 30, 2005, 08:22 PM	#12
38splfan Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2004 Location: Ft. Lewis/Tacoma, WA. Posts: 1,034	Makarov or Star. Have shot both and both are comfortable and reliable. I currently own and sometimes carry a Star BM. $129 from J&G. 2x extra mags @$14.95 ea. Cleaned well, did some file/polish work and a quick cold re-blue. Shoots good, looks good. Comfortable in the hand and Uncle Mike's sz. 15 holsters will fit well.

January 30, 2005, 09:54 PM	#15
jim276 Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Location: Long Island, N.Y. Posts: 11	astra I recently bought a used Astra A-75 in .45- it's a knockoff of a Sig 220 but is all steel and seems to be built very well, you might want to look for one of these. They came in 9mm .40 and .45, and judging by some of the other postings i've read about them, most people have been happy with them. Last edited by jim276; February 1, 2005 at 05:55 PM. Reason: spelling

January 30, 2005, 10:50 PM	#17
DT Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2001 Posts: 984	Jehzsa, You seem determined to NEVER be able to buy ammo at Wal-Mart, eh? Larry __________________ He who fights and runs away had better run pretty damn fast. Government, Anarchy and Chaos

January 30, 2005, 05:50 PM	#2
m0ntels Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2004 Location: Perkasie, PA Posts: 263	Bersa makes a fine cheap gun. Owned one for a while. It was all steel, full ambi controls, shot nice, and was cheap and reliable. All the other brands...well, you know what to expect. Bersa/FireStorm have a good backing here though. That's what had me buy mine when I wanted a cheapie pistol. I kinda miss it sometimes. Randy

January 30, 2005, 05:50 PM	#3
txinvestigator Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Location: DFW, TX area Posts: 103	Find a used S&W or Ruger revolver. They can readiy be had for around the same price, and you need not worry abut the quaity issues.

January 30, 2005, 05:58 PM	#4
omegapd Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2004 Location: GA Posts: 670	I agree on the used revolver. Can't go wrong there. If you're set on the semi, I'd go Bersa or Llama. I've had good luck with my Llama Commander in .38 Super with no problems. Both Bersa and Llama are made in the same place now, too.

January 30, 2005, 06:02 PM	#5
Sir William Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2004 Posts: 3,261	Bersas arexcellent pistols. I would feel well armed with any caliber Bersa. Llamas have been good to me. Revolvers and autos have been 100% for me. Star made very good autos. They have been known to break firing pins with dryfiring though. There are replacements that solve that problem. I carried a Star Super B for awhile. 0 problems. I have owned Jennings, Bryco, Lorcin, Phoenix, Davis and Stallard autos. They are mostly POJ. A Davis derringer in 38 Special used to be my deep concealment arm. I also competed with a Davis derringer reamed out to 38 S&W in CAS side matches. I had no troubles with any Davis derringer. I owned 22, 22 Magnum, a couple of 38 Specials and a better derringer for concealment would be hard to find for $90.00. I am thinking about a Star BM 9MM myself. www.jgsales.com

January 30, 2005, 06:21 PM	#6
woodland Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2001 Location: western wa. Posts: 564	I have had a Llama .45 hi-cap for quite awhile, and put many many many rounds through it, and have never had one single jam, ftf, or anything. It is also quite accurate. Finish is a little rough on them, but function has been perfect with mine. And that's what I got it for, so I'm happy with it.

January 30, 2005, 06:31 PM	#8
WillBrayjr Junior member Join Date: September 26, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 1,881	Bersas and Makarovs. Both are cheap and dependable little pistols. Believe or not there's alot very good guns for a low budget.

January 30, 2005, 06:39 PM	#9
txinvestigator Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2005 Location: DFW, TX area Posts: 103	I have never owned any of these guns, but as an instructor I have seen MANY come through my classes. I absolutely hate to criticize any brand of gun, as someone who owns one always takes it personal. So please understand if you own one and it works for you thats all that matters for you. Due to experience and observations, I would NEVER own one of the guns listed by the OP in the title of this thread, and depend on it for protection. No offense to ANYONE who may own one.

January 30, 2005, 06:44 PM	#10
tom650604 Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2005 Location: Twin Cities, MN USA Posts: 315	This is while I come to post here for professional and friendly advise. This post was up for no more than 30 minutes and I've already got some great advise from great people like you guys. Thanks a lot ! Anyone else !

January 30, 2005, 07:05 PM	#11
seb5 Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 477	I can't add much to what has already been said but would feel fine with either a Bersa or Star. I would steer clear of the others. I had bad luck with Llama but others have had good luck. YMMV.

January 30, 2005, 08:28 PM	#13
Jehzsa Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2004 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 756	I'll say it this way. This is what I own right now. Walther PP Super 9x18U, Walther PP Super 9k, Benelli B82 9x18U, Sig P230 9x18U, Bulgarian Mil/surp Makarov 9x18M, East German Makarov 9x18M, Walther P5 9L. Next in line, Star M45.

January 30, 2005, 09:47 PM	#14
michael t Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: Out back Ky Posts: 4,044	First Bersa and Llama are not made same place Bersa ,South America and Llama, Spain Same dist. Get a Bersa in 380 great little pistol Llama are so so Yes I own one and mine is perfect for malfuction drills. You should also look at used S&W rev. I have a Star Firestar in 40 that a great little gun But heavy for its size.

January 30, 2005, 10:47 PM	#16
Ala Dan Member in memoriam Join Date: August 14, 1999 Location: In The HOT, Humid, and Mu Posts: 6,116	I sell a lot of the Bersa Dutotone .380's at $199.88 each. NONE has come back for warranty work. Well made, and operates just like a Walther PPK or PPK/S. Only downfall is the fact that the little Bersa only comes with one magazine; and extra magazines are expensive. Best Wishes,

January 30, 2005, 11:07 PM	#18
Jehzsa Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2004 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 756	Hello Larry, WWB for the M45. Lots of plinking there. But Fiocchi for SD. Unless I can find a cartload of Geco 45HP.

January 30, 2005, 11:37 PM	#19
HosMan Member Join Date: January 4, 2005 Location: Valley Springs,CA(Sierra Foothills) Posts: 24	I can recommend the Star Firestar in 9mm. Had one and sold,now I wish I had`nt.Heavy as hell(like toting a brick around) but a wonderful shooter and the all steel construction means it is durable and low felt recoil.The one I had was a single action but I think following mods were DA. No expearience with the Bersa but I everything I`ve heard about them has been positive. Have you considered picking up a Bulgarian Makarov(9x18)?They are sturdy and reliable and lots of goodies out there for upgrades.I`m very happy with mine and the price can`t be beat(usually under $200.00). My dad had a Jennings .22LR.It was a real jam fest when shot. Sorry,no expearience with the others on your list. Happy Hunting! Hos

January 31, 2005, 09:30 PM	#20
gpannicke Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2005 Posts: 8	I have a Bryco (Jennings) 380 auto and would not suggest it to be used for anything but beating up at the range. Mine chokes on ANY hollow point ammo you put in it. It is fun to shoot only if you feed it a steady diet of cheapo round nose ammo - otherwise you'll be fiddling with feed and eject failures all day. -G

January 31, 2005, 10:35 PM	#21
MountainJoe Member Join Date: January 31, 2005 Location: Signal Mountain, TN Posts: 43	Bersa is good I have a Bersa Thunder 380 and like it so far (only put about 200 rounds through it). It is a well built gun for the money (about $200). At only 5'8" and 160 I have small hands, and this gun "feels right" to me. It might be too small if you are a large person with larger hands, but for an average to slightly built guy or most women, it is comfortable. Doesn't quite have the stopping power of a 9mm, but as they say, the .22 (or .380) you have on you is better than the .45 in the safe at home.

January 31, 2005, 11:39 PM	#22
gfen Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2005 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 817	Another vote for the Makarov. I decided recently that my newly aquired CCW wasn't going ot do me much good if my only handgun was a 5" 1911, so the hunt was on. In the end, it was between the Bersa .380 and a Mak. My brother's had a Mak for probably close to 15 years, and he's always been happy with it. I figure in 15 years, I'll still be happy with mine now, too. Cheap, compact, reliable. Sure, its a bit heavier than the Bersa, but it has a safety (required for my mental well being), and not only that but the safety is down to fire. The Bersa goes up. Seemed utterly confusing to me. You can chamber your Mak in .380 if you prefer, but you can find 9x18 Mak at a decent gun store, or just order in bulk (I just picked up a 1000rd case for $110+s/h).

February 1, 2005, 12:07 AM	#23
9x19 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 1998 Location: Sherman, TX USA Posts: 3,760	I own a number of Bersa handguns in .22LR, .32ACP and .380ACP and have never had a moments trouble with any of them. They are excellent values IMO. __________________ Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!

February 1, 2005, 04:49 PM	#24
Dadx4 Junior Member Join Date: October 14, 2004 Location: Georgia Posts: 14	I can vouch for the Bersa Thunder .380...carry one every day and have over 300 rounds through it with no problems at all. Well, except for a box of Wolf lacquer coated rounds that would occasionally stovepipe. Changed to Georgia Arms 95 gr. FMJ for target use and have never had another hiccup. I use Gold Dots JHP from Georgia Arms for carry and have had no problems at all with that round either. Gun works every time, is comfortable and balanced, and is way more accurate than I am (though I am working on that part every chance I get). For the money, I don't think you can do any better. Dadx4

February 1, 2005, 04:53 PM	#25
TacticalReload Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2001 Posts: 119	Your best bet for a rock bottom price on a subcompact would probably be a lightly used Taurus .38special. I have a friend with a Bersa .380 who is happy with it. I also have a friend who used to own a Jennings .25 that was basically a single shot because it wouldn't feed anything ever.