Semmerling .45

HAWKIN · January 26, 2005, 04:12 PM

Im about to write an article about the Semmerling .45 and would like to know if there is anyone out there that might have some interesting data points about the gun or the company/founder/designer.

Much appreciated.

Tom2 · January 26, 2005, 04:42 PM

I have an address from the Gun Digest Book of Autoloading Pistols, 1983.
Semmerling Corp. P. O. Box 400 Newton, Ma. 02160. Dean Grennell describes it as a .45 cal. manually operated repeater. It had a long double action type trigger pull, and ejected the empty by pulling the barrel forward. Then another round was shucked from the mag by pushing the barrel back into battery. I guess it was a way to make a really compact, almost derringer size .45 before they worked out the proper way to make the micro compact autoloader .45's they have now. Otherwise I expect it is classed as a rare collectable by now. Did not try google search on it yet myself. Good luck.

tulsamal · January 26, 2005, 05:28 PM

They are still being made.

They are still smaller than anything you can buy today if you want .45 ACP in something other than a derringer. If you've got the big money to pay for one!

Gregg

jerryd · January 26, 2005, 05:48 PM

I think its bond deringer co. that carries them, the site has lady derringer posing!

tulsamal · January 26, 2005, 07:24 PM

http://www.amderringer.com/lms.html

Tom2 · January 26, 2005, 08:15 PM

They call it a "Simmerling" on their website

Dfariswheel · January 26, 2005, 08:41 PM

I have a friend who owns an very early blued Semmerling.
He did some research on the early manufacture of the gun and found an interesting history.

Seems the area where the original maker lived was the center for small, ultra hi-tech machine shops that specialized in aerospace precision machine work for NASA, military, and aircraft applications.

He contracted the parts out to whichever shop offered the best deal, and he did the final assembly and finishing.

Next batch, he'd find whoever offered the best deal again.

According to my friend, some of these shops were one man operations in small garages, with a single multi-million dollar Cincinnati Millicron milling machine sitting in it.

These small operations were capable of doing the most exacting machine work imaginable, and the Semmerling was almost too easy for them.

Jim Watson · January 26, 2005, 09:25 PM

I recall an old article about the designer, Philip Lichtman. Don't still have it, I gave it to an engineering design student as an example of product design philosophy. From memory... he was fascinated with small pistols. He said his first, the LM-1 was just a scaledown of conventional design and didn't work very well. The LM-2 was made of higher strength metals and with design features that let him put .380s into a gun no bigger than most .25s. Think all-steel top quality P3AT. The LM-3 was to be a 9mm P the size of a PPK but he dropped it because he got the idea of making a .45 as small as possible even if it wasn't an auto. That became the LM-4. It went from pillar to post for manufacture until it ended up with American Derringer. I have seen maybe half a dozen max over 25 years or more.

He would be horrified that AD was making it out of stainless steel. I also have an article in a Gun Digest where he describes his choices for steel alloys suited for each individual part. He pretty much dropped out of sight after that, don't know if he is even alive, but he sure isn't making guns.

AD catalogs an LM5 but I doubt it is a Lichtman design. He would not put up with a 15 oz .25 or .32 Magnum (Whatthehell is a .32 Magnum auto?)

I note the AD price list on that site is dated 3/1/01. Have they not gone up on price in nearly four years, or are they still there at all?

tulsamal · January 26, 2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

I note the AD price list on that site is dated 3/1/01. Have they not gone up on price in nearly four years, or are they still there at all?

I think this link will answer your questions about the company. And they say down at the bottom that they are "taking orders" for the little .45. I would say it is an open question when (or if) they have actually produced one.

http://www.amderringer.com/es.html

Gregg

HAWKIN · January 26, 2005, 10:48 PM

To all,

Many thanks for your kind and informative contributions.
I have been collecting as much information as I can and am surprised by the limited amount of information about the Semmerling in print. Almost nothing.
Until your emails, I was unable to come up with the name of the designer!

I am very thankful..

Jim Watson · January 27, 2005, 12:28 AM

Gregg,

Oh, at least a couple of the very few LM4s I have seen were trademarked American Derringer, so they are tooled up for it and have made some. But the www page you cite is dated 2000. Still wondering if there is anybody home.

rogertc1 · January 27, 2005, 05:51 AM

I have a virgin standard Semmerling I got in 1983..

I also have pages from magazines on it and best yet Semmerlings sales stuff that was pitched to the Army while i was on duty at an arsenal.
I can copy it for you and send it to you..give me an address. I have no scanner.
E-mail me if interested. reference firing line.

Roger
Iowa
[email protected]

January 26, 2005, 04:12 PM	#1
HAWKIN Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Posts: 132	Semmerling .45 Im about to write an article about the Semmerling .45 and would like to know if there is anyone out there that might have some interesting data points about the gun or the company/founder/designer. Much appreciated.

January 26, 2005, 04:42 PM	#2
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	A little bit I have an address from the Gun Digest Book of Autoloading Pistols, 1983. Semmerling Corp. P. O. Box 400 Newton, Ma. 02160. Dean Grennell describes it as a .45 cal. manually operated repeater. It had a long double action type trigger pull, and ejected the empty by pulling the barrel forward. Then another round was shucked from the mag by pushing the barrel back into battery. I guess it was a way to make a really compact, almost derringer size .45 before they worked out the proper way to make the micro compact autoloader .45's they have now. Otherwise I expect it is classed as a rare collectable by now. Did not try google search on it yet myself. Good luck.

January 26, 2005, 08:15 PM	#6
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	A what? They call it a "Simmerling" on their website

January 27, 2005, 05:51 AM	#12
rogertc1 Junior member Join Date: December 17, 2004 Location: Maquoketa Posts: 1,335	I have lots of stuff on Semmerling I have a virgin standard Semmerling I got in 1983.. I also have pages from magazines on it and best yet Semmerlings sales stuff that was pitched to the Army while i was on duty at an arsenal. I can copy it for you and send it to you..give me an address. I have no scanner. E-mail me if interested. reference firing line. Roger Iowa [email protected]

January 26, 2005, 05:28 PM	#3
tulsamal Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Vinita, OK Posts: 2,552	They are still being made. They are still smaller than anything you can buy today if you want .45 ACP in something other than a derringer. If you've got the big money to pay for one! Gregg

January 26, 2005, 05:48 PM	#4
jerryd Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2004 Location: Ct. Posts: 131	I think its bond deringer co. that carries them, the site has lady derringer posing!

January 26, 2005, 07:24 PM	#5
tulsamal Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2004 Location: Vinita, OK Posts: 2,552	http://www.amderringer.com/lms.html

January 26, 2005, 08:41 PM	#7
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,562	I have a friend who owns an very early blued Semmerling. He did some research on the early manufacture of the gun and found an interesting history. Seems the area where the original maker lived was the center for small, ultra hi-tech machine shops that specialized in aerospace precision machine work for NASA, military, and aircraft applications. He contracted the parts out to whichever shop offered the best deal, and he did the final assembly and finishing. Next batch, he'd find whoever offered the best deal again. According to my friend, some of these shops were one man operations in small garages, with a single multi-million dollar Cincinnati Millicron milling machine sitting in it. These small operations were capable of doing the most exacting machine work imaginable, and the Semmerling was almost too easy for them.

January 26, 2005, 09:25 PM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,190	I recall an old article about the designer, Philip Lichtman. Don't still have it, I gave it to an engineering design student as an example of product design philosophy. From memory... he was fascinated with small pistols. He said his first, the LM-1 was just a scaledown of conventional design and didn't work very well. The LM-2 was made of higher strength metals and with design features that let him put .380s into a gun no bigger than most .25s. Think all-steel top quality P3AT. The LM-3 was to be a 9mm P the size of a PPK but he dropped it because he got the idea of making a .45 as small as possible even if it wasn't an auto. That became the LM-4. It went from pillar to post for manufacture until it ended up with American Derringer. I have seen maybe half a dozen max over 25 years or more. He would be horrified that AD was making it out of stainless steel. I also have an article in a Gun Digest where he describes his choices for steel alloys suited for each individual part. He pretty much dropped out of sight after that, don't know if he is even alive, but he sure isn't making guns. AD catalogs an LM5 but I doubt it is a Lichtman design. He would not put up with a 15 oz .25 or .32 Magnum (Whatthehell is a .32 Magnum auto?) I note the AD price list on that site is dated 3/1/01. Have they not gone up on price in nearly four years, or are they still there at all?

January 26, 2005, 10:48 PM	#10
HAWKIN Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2005 Posts: 132	To all, Many thanks for your kind and informative contributions. I have been collecting as much information as I can and am surprised by the limited amount of information about the Semmerling in print. Almost nothing. Until your emails, I was unable to come up with the name of the designer! I am very thankful..

January 27, 2005, 12:28 AM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 19,190	Gregg, Oh, at least a couple of the very few LM4s I have seen were trademarked American Derringer, so they are tooled up for it and have made some. But the www page you cite is dated 2000. Still wondering if there is anybody home.