a shooters diary

[sven]

I have started to keep an online diary of my trips to the range, with digital photos of my targets.

Backgrounder: I am a complete beginner, with basic safety training but very little actual shooting training. My aim with these postings is to document my progress.

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4/14

Today I made my second trip to the range with my new - first - gun, a Glock 17. Having grouped low before, I was advised to not anticipate the recoil as much. The picture below shows my three targets. I shot 62 rounds total today, all from 7 yards

Observations:

-my first target shows some nice progress from my last trip.

-by the second target, i was getting psychologically tired, and got a bit lazy. the results show.

-on the third target, things spread out even more, UNTIL at one point, I realized what I was doing and pulled myself together... bringing in 4-5 nice bullseyes at the end.

-62 rounds is way too much for me, at my current skill level. i plan to shoot 40 or fewer in my next trip to the range, and make them all count.

-i left the Snap Caps at home - will mix those in next time

[sven]

here is the photo

[Kharn]

Good shooting towards the end. You might want to consider having a shooting buddy come along (one who has been shooting handguns for a long time) and borrow a .22lr pistol off somebody. Also, it would be good to include a ruler or something in the photo of the target, to give an idea of scale.

Kharn

[sven]

4/17/2002

50 rounds fired
Glock 17
CCI 115gr (range ammo - smelled wierd, btw)
7 yards

Attached is a photo of 5 targets from my most recent trip to the range - yesterday. Note the ruler I've included by request. Note that my groupings are coming together.

yesterday I downloaded and began studying the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit's 'Pistol Marksmanship Training Guide' and this is pointing me in new directions. I plan on following their system in my next trip to the range, and also to begin using the 'Ball and Dummy' exercise.

Although my groupings are getting tighter, I note that I am still pushing down and to the left, anticipating recoil. Lots to learn!

Looking for a training buddy in the Bay Area.

Cheers,

-sven

[Lennyjoe]

Just wondering if you have a copy of the chart below. Might help. Practice is the key. Good shooting.

[sven]

Thanks for the chart. It sure feels good to see a round go through the X... hope to get that feeling more often!

[Carry24x7]

The only thing that will actually cure that anticipation reflex is a ton of practice.

But in the meantime you can mix SnapCaps in with live ammo to force the awareness on you.

If you're doing timed (slow) fire make yourself take your eyes off the target, inhale deep, eyes on target, controlled exhale while squeezing. Make yourself do that every shot.

You're doing great, stay on it!

[spacemanspiff]

last time i went to the range, i found myself anticipating the recoil so much that it was more than a flinch, but a distinct pulling away. i couldnt help it. that was with the .40, the 9mm was not so bad. only with great concentration could i put a hole in the center. my targets usually wind up looking like i was using a scattergun.

[sven]

I have been reading the U.S. Army's Pisol Marksmanship Training Guide in an effort to learn as much as possible - this is highly recommended for new shooters.

In particular, I was struck at the emphasis on breath control in shooting - I have studied various forms of breath manipulation for Yoga and other exercises, and never imagined there would be a connection between these disciplines.

I was fortunate to head to the range today (May 1st, 2002) with T. T is ex-Military and ex-LEO, and has many hours behind the sights. His brother is an experienced gunsmith in Vermont who builds amazing rifle stocks (no advertising, all word of mouth), so T has been around guns for a while.

T gave me a review of the basics before we started shooting:

1) Breath control. Inhale, release the breath and wait a moment while the front sight settles down.

2) Execution. Concentrate on stabilization of the front sight as the trigger is squeezed. Be surprised at the moment of trigger break.

3) Follow Through. T recommended that - after discharge - I keep the trigger pulled back until fully back on target.

-

I found myself saying "yeah, yeah, I know that" to myself as T explained these details. However, after my first string of shots, I realized that I wasn't applying the fundamentals T had emphasized - and the results showed.

The excitement of the next shot allowed me to 'forget myself' and to forget the fundamentals. Although I might pass a written test on the material, I wasn't passing the test of the 'real world'.

So I got back to basics, and the results were AMAZING, relativistically speaking.

#### Immediately - my shots began hitting inside the black at 7 yards, with no flyers, and a consistent pattern. ####

This being approximately my 6th trip to the range with my new (first) gun, A Glock 17, I was excited to see such a rapid progress, and I attribute it all - again - to proper training.


By the way, T was consistently tearing 1-2" ragged holes in his 20 round targets, and continued this performance throughout.

Here is my best target from 5/1.

[sven]

Headed to the range for my first session in a few weeks. I was a little rusty, but things came back quickly. I shot 80 rounds at 7 yard and 20 at 10 yards.

Observations:

-I no longer flinch at the range, as I did occasionally in my early trips. Even loud revolvers in nearby lanes leave me unphased.

-A rest break every 20 rounds seems helpful. It's fun to walk behind the other shooters and check out their gear - but it also helps clear your mind when things get exciting. 5 shot strings are best for slow fire accuracy, setting the gun down to take a breath.

-I moved the target out to 10 yards for the first time, and my performance mapped pretty much as expected from 7 yards. Oleg had recommended that I start at close ranges and gradually move out... it seems time to start doing this.

-I caught myself shooting rapid fire without really planning on it - I wasn't taking my time, and was more just 'having fun' shooting fast - and inaccurately. Seemed unnecessary, so I cut it out.

-Reed's Indoor Range in the Bay Area is a great facility, with amazing staff. Justin, Erik and Nancy are always helpful. Today Eric (Glock Armorer), in response to my question on cleaning, showed me how he cleans his gun - using mine for example. VERY helpful.

Attached is a 7 yard target from today.

-

One question I have for those checking in: should I compensate for my natural tendency to shoot low and left by aiming high and right? My friend T did this and ended up shooting dead center.

I haven't shot my gun from a bench rest yet, so I'm not sure if it is also perhaps due to the sights needing adjusting. Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks,

-steve

[sven]

10 yard target. 20 rounds. Ammo: Winchester White Box (115 gr).

(target in previous post was 40 rounds of S&B, btw)

[Dwight M S]

Sven,
You asked about compensating for a shooting flaw by practicing another flaw. But I fear you would just end up with two bad habits. I'd suggest simply finding the source of the low and left shots and eliminating it. Experiment with grip positions, using different parts of your shooting fingertip, speed of trigger pull, etc., to find what works best for your anatomy as it attempts to accomodate the gun's design and dimensions. Run just one experiment at a time so you know what's making the difference.

By the way, someone kindly posted the U.S. Army marksmanship manual on this forum recently. I downloaded and read it. It helped my shooting a lot.

Dwight M S

[Mal H]

Dwight nailed it. You should not try to compensate for a flaw in your technique by adding another flaw, i.e, purposefully missing. Do the experiments Dwight suggested and remember that the experiments must be more than one grouping. It is very difficult to see what effect an action is having until after several groupings using the exact same techniques.

Also, be sure your gun is not the cause of the low-left groupings. You may be trying to fix the wrong thing. The shear fact that you have good groupings wherever they are on the target is a good sign that you are doing a lot of things right most of the time.

[sven]

Thanks for the advice!

-

Headed to the range with my new CZ 75B today. This gun is an absolute TACK DRIVER for me. It fits my hand so well, and functioned flawlessly.

Check out this offhand grouping at 7 yards.

I guess this gun fits my hand well!

[sven]

Here is a target showing 10 rounds shot from benchrest, for comparison.

[DMK]

Nice job Sven! Gotta love those CZs!


Regarding your low/left question. I was doing this and found I was pulling the pistol with my finger tips. I fixed it by very consiously clamping the front and rear of the grip and laying my strong hand pinky on top of my weak hand pinky. It's strange, but works for me.

I agree about the army marksman guide. That is a *great* resource. I look over it periodically and always find something I missed or forgot.

[sven]

Thanks for the advice - DMK. I think that helped. Check it out:

Report: 2002-05-25

Wrapped some Hogue Grips around that CZ-75B... took this and the trusty ol' Glock 17 to the range. Attached are my best targets for each pistol. I was shooting 20 round strings at 7 yards.

Later I tried shooting at 10 yards and also for the first time attempted shooting single-handed, both strong and weak side.

Observations:

1) Had a Type Three Stopage while shooting weak side. I was using Blazer ammo (don't like this stuff), probably limp wristed this low-powered practice round (?),

2) Dry firing really paid off.

3) Switching between the pistols took a bit of mental adjustment. The trigger pull, in particular was difficult to 'remember' between guns, with the G17 more clearly etched in my mind and easier to access.

4) Accuracy seems to have evened between the two pistols. I love them both! My early success with the CZ might have been due to the lower trigger pull of the SA.

5) Firing weak side freaked me out! The gun jerked up and right, surprisingly!

6) Firing strong side (single-handed) was very nice. The front sight moved a bit more, but it was somehow more satisfying to shoot with my left thumb hooked in my pocket!

7) I attempted rapid fire today with intention. I was surpised at how much time it took to get the sights back on target, and at how my accuracy decreased.

Oleg recommends that I stick with the stock trigger on the G17 until I can group 1/2" at 20 feet... THEN move to the 3.5lb trigger.

Another case of S&B on the way, plus I discovered the Wal-Mart value packs of 100 today! Life is good.

Here is the Glock target. 20 shots at 7 rounds.

[sven]

Attached is my best target results today with the CZ-75B today. First session with the new Hogue grips.

7 yards, 20 shots. Ammo was CCI Blazer.

[Mikke]

Looks like it's time to extend the range. Try shooting at 15 yards, and maybe try some at 25 as well. Go slow, make sure you get good hits. When you can shoot groups like that at 15, you can try rapid fire.

And as someone else said, get a .22 as well.

[Ron L]

And as someone else said, get a .22 as well.

Hear, hear! I usually start with the 22. Just to reenforce proper trigger and breath control. Then I start shooting something bigger. When I start getting tired and anticipating shots, or flinching, I pick the 22 back up. This gives me a bit of a break, but I'm still shooting.

Unfortunately, many people start shooting by going to a range with a friend who introduces them to all sorts of fire breathing monsters. They're immediately intimidated and develop a flinch and never get a chance to learn the basics. When I took my son or a few friends in the past, we shot the 22 for almost the whole session, then maybe ran a clip or cylinder out of something bigger. That's why I normally recommend a 22 for a first gun (unless someone's buying their first gun strictly for SD or HD).

[sven]

Report: 2002-05-27

Headed to the range for Memorial Day. By the looks of the brass on the range floor, more than a few others had the same idea!

If anyone wants proof that practice improves your shooting, just check out the attached image showing my best targets from today. Then compare these to my first shooting sessions.

I sent another 120 rounds downstream today, and absolutely was dead on with the Glock. I pushed into a new 'space' today with the Glock... I think I've finally begun to 'Zen Out' with the Glock trigger. 10 shots into 3/4" at 7 yards, slow fire.

Very exciting!

The CZ was a little more difficult to get into the zone with - see my best target in the bottom half of the attached photo.

I am still very much in the early stages of learning the CZ trigger. I find the Glock trigger much more comfortable for long shooting sessions - the CZ trigger wears into my finger pad a bit. Maybe I need to change which part of my finger touches the trigger, maybe I just need to build up some thick skin there.

After 40 rounds on the CZ my finger hurts a bit.

My primary complaint with the CZ is the sights. I like the very clear 'read' I get with the standard Glock sights, and the CZ's sights definitely suffer from being smaller, less bright (sort of an off-white glow in the dark paint), and more difficult to see in various conditions... for example, there was an overhead light tonight which was glaring off the front sight, making it impossible to focus my eye on this point. Perhaps I can sand the front site a bit to remove the glare?

It may be time to get some new sights for the CZ. Please PM me with suggestions, if you've modded your CZ before.

What else? The CZ kept bouncing brass back at me (bouncing off the range wall) - whereas the Glock has never done this. It got annoying after a few times having brass land on my head.

Ammo tonight was Winchester 115gr FMJ (WalMart 100 Value packs).

[Gunhead]

Time to move the targets back to 27 yards...

[Mikke]

Definetly time to move targets further out.

I'm surprised you have problem with the CZ trigger, my is nicely rounded and I have never had any trouble with it.

As for sights I have put LPA adjustables on mine (SPR86CZ07, plain black). http://www.lpasights.com/ They sit a bit high on the slide, so if I had had the money and patience I would have had a smith put on Bo-Mar sights, like the one on this CZ http://www.vapensmedjan.com/customczpic_1.htm

I suspect the bouncing brass disturbed your shooting.

[sven]

Haven't been shooting much, but have been dry firing the Glock, which now features Trijicon Night Sights. The front sight of the Triji has a crisp white outline which I LIKE because I can distinctly focus on the front sight (ie, get a 'lock') versus the Stock Glock Sights.

The dry firing paid off - I can now routinely put all within the 10 ring at 5 yards, and decent targets out to 10 yards. At 15 now I struggle.

Today, after a triple latte and 160 rounds, I shot this 40 round group at 15 yards with the Glock 17 (WinClean and White Box ammo).

The Score:

10 + X Ring = 13
9 Ring = 12
8 Ring = 7
7 Ring = 3
6 Ring = 3
4 Ring = 1
Flyer = 1

Attached photo shows the distribution - note that the spread is overall toward the downside, with a slight tendency to aim left of POA.

In short: I have a long ways to go. Cutting back on caffeine might help some, as would doing this test after a brief warmup, not a long session.

Would love to have a 1911 for the longer range stuff. That's next. Valtro, here I come.

Thanks for reading,

-sven

[Chuck Dye]

Forgive me if this is belaboring the obvious, but some otherwise competent friends and I fell into exactly this trap: when you shoot left handed, the correction chart needs to be flipped left to right mirror image style. We blew an embarassing amount of time and ammo on our weak hand drills before one of us (sad to report-not I) groaned and said "Well, DUHHH!"