Non-Match Reloading Info for the M1A

Bullwinkle · May 1, 2002, 11:23 AM

I'm getting ready to get set up to reload 308 for my M1A. I've been studying up to figure out what tools and techniques I will need to use for reloading this caliber (previously I've only done straight wall pistol on a 550).

I've found lots and lots of stuff on the web about match grade reloading for the 308. I'm not interested in producing match grade ammo. It would be a waste for my gun and purposes. I'm really interested in producing ammo that is first and foremost Safe, secondarily Economical (time and money wise), and hopefully at least a little bit more accurate than the cheep surplus.

Any suggestions of steps in match reloading process that can be eliminated would be helpful. Its sometimes hard to figure out which steps are completed for safety, which are necessary for wholesale accuracy improvment, and which are fine tuning for ultimate accuracy.

Also, any suggested sources for components would be appreciated.

Steve Smith · May 1, 2002, 01:05 PM

I have found that mil surplus is considerably cheaper than trying to load non-match ammo. Just get some Portugese mil-surp and shoot. Trust me, you'll come out cheaper.

HankL · May 2, 2002, 08:31 PM

If you have brass or can get it cheap consider using mil surp projectiles and powder.
Using IMI projectiles from Wiedners, powder from the McDonalds and CCI primers I'm not out very much for a round of quality 308 ammo. I reload this on my 650 with good results.

The only trick to loading anything for the M1A or any other gas gun for that matter, is that you need to know exactly what you are doing. Time will be an investment in learning this as well as in producing safe reliable ammo for your M1A. Up to you to decide on this matter. Springfield and the major M1 smiths don't tell folks not to use reloads for the heck of it.

Target Shooter · May 2, 2002, 11:30 PM

Here's a good accurate load that I've been shooting in my M1A for quite a few years:

FED Brass
WIN Large Rifle Primer
SPEER 165G Boat Tail Spire Point Bullet
Accurate Arms 2520 Powder / 43.5 grains
Overall Cartridge Length = 2.800
This load shoots 1” – 1 ½”@100 YDS in my M1A.
I use this load for my general purpose target shooting / plinking load.

Enjoy,

TS

As Always, Please check all reloading data against a current reloading book before using any data from an unknown source.

Powderman · May 3, 2002, 01:19 AM

Here's a good one that has worked well for me:

147-150 gr. FMJBT, military surplus
42.0 grains IMR 4895
Federal Large Rifle Match primers

Seat bullet to cannelure, and use the Lee Factory Crimp die.

From my M1A, I get 1/2 MOA constantly at 100 yards with this load.

Steve Smith · May 3, 2002, 09:48 AM

I'd like to see an honest cost breakdown of all the above mentioned loads. www.ammoman.com has 1000 rounds of Portugese in battle packs for $179 delivered.

Bullwinkle · May 3, 2002, 04:18 PM

Better price on the Port here: http://198.63.62.70/acatalog/AIM_Rif...unition_8.html

I placed an order yesterday.

After costing everythin out its pretty clear you cant come anywhere close to the economics of the surplus by reloading. To even come close to the surplus price you have to go with the way bottom end components.

This all got me wondering..... If you took the Port. pulled the bullets, turned the necks, hand measured the powder charges and reseated the bullets to match your chamber I wonder what the accuracy would be like?

HankL · May 3, 2002, 08:16 PM

Steve, Please don't make me try to justify having a 650 set up for 308, several 50 cal ammo cans full of 308 projectiles and 40 or 50 lbs of the appropriate powder.

This forum is all about reloading isn't it?

I purchase surplus when I find a good deal and Federal Match as well. One can never have enough ammo.

My main point here is if a person is going to take up reloading for an M14/M1A, M1 Garand or most any gas operated rifle they will need to spend some time making sure the rounds being produced will be appropriate.

Bullwinkle, I think you will do just fine shooting the ammo you ordered right out of the box.

Target Shooter · May 3, 2002, 08:48 PM

Not to discredit inexpensive surplus ammo or anything that Steve has written but I agree with HankL.
You discuss reloading topics on a "Handloading and Reloading" forum for information on reloading...
The attractiveness of surplus ammo is the price, it just so happens that some rifles shoot it very well.

I have cases of surplus ammo for when I get too lazy to reload.
Here is the breakdown of my reloaded ammo. Keep in mind I reload for a great hobby and I buy in bulk to reduce the cost. I shop gunshows for deals and buy when the price is right! The below prices reflect what I paid for my supplies.
The breakdown if for 1000 rounds of ammo.

Federal Brass @ $150.00 per 1000 cases new that can be reloaded 10 times will equal 1.5 cents per case times 1000 rounds equals $15.00
Primers for $60.00 per 5000 will equal 1.2 cents each times 1000 equals $12.00
Powder at $70.00 per 8 lb jug will equal $54.37 per 1000 rounds.
Bullets I paid $11.00 per box times 10 boxes equals $110.00 per 1000 rounds.

$191.37 for 1000 rounds of ammo. About 4 cents more per round than surplus...and it shoots a lot better in my rifle.

The last case of Portuguese I bought cost me $150.00 for 960 round case. Sure it's cheaper, but my hobby is reloading and shooting, and of course I sneak a gun or two into the safes for collecting.
TS

Navy joe · May 4, 2002, 01:21 AM

Quote:

It would be a waste for my gun and purposes. I'm really interested in producing ammo that is first and foremost Safe, secondarily Economical (time and money wise), and hopefully at least a little bit more accurate than the cheep surplus.

Sounds to me like a reloading hobby isn't the foremost objective for this member, I have to agree w/ Steve, buy the Port FNM headstamp. What's available is early 80's, late 70's in sealed battlepacks, gunshow price around here is 129.00/1000. Can't beat it with a stick. Brass is berdan, bullet is a 146gr FMJBT. For the record, my M-1A usually only sees Federal Gold Match because the gun has a tight chamber and match accuracy and then some. I fired 200 of the Port through it, and it is definitely not cheap surplus, very accurate stuff. For the time and money, get some, by the time you get the new reloading accesories, components and stuff you could have already shot a ton of this.

LONGRIFLE30 · May 4, 2002, 01:54 AM

Bullwinkle, try this with 147-150 grainers: 50.0 grains of Varget, or 49 grains of IMR-4350, but not with AP bullets, back off 2 grains and work up.

Fatelvis · May 4, 2002, 12:19 PM

TargetShooter, I`m not being sarcastic, but do you get 10 loadings out of a case (for the M1A)? I figure about 5, for mine. Just wondering, maybe I have alot of headspace,(Douglas match bbl, fitted by a good gunsmith), or my extractor isnt fitted right, but my M1A is pretty rough on cases. I find that after 5 loadings, I find evidence of head sep, and in general it`s pretty dinged up. I use 40.5-41 grns IMR4895/168 grn Sierra, so I dont think I`m shooting a hot load, either. And I use a Wilson case guage, to check shoulder set-back. Just wondering if I`m doing something different-

Target Shooter · May 4, 2002, 09:40 PM

Fatelvis,
My M1A is real easy on my brass. It doens't ding it up and it lasts at least 10 reloadings. I'll reload the same 200 cases over and over until I find they are getting loose in the primer pockets then I chuck them. (Actually I turn them in for scrap)
The only thing you should do is anneal the necks after every 5 firings. This will prevent the necks from splitting. I never had a headspace problem with mine so I don't get any signs of head separation.
Another thing that extends the life of your brass is don't load max or near max loads.

I used Remington brass in my Remington 700 PDM in 308 for 17 reloadings. Annealed the necks every 5 reloadings and only chucked them because about 10% of the primer pockets were getting loose.

Thanks for asking.

TS

Steve Smith · May 5, 2002, 01:45 AM

Anyone here who knows me knows that I'm a match shooter, and therefore concerned with accuracy. However, when the use of a cartridge will not require exceptional accuracy, it only makes sense to look into surplus ammo. Taking the time to load your own not-so-good ammo for more than the off-the-shelf not-so-good ammo costs just doesn't make sense.

BTW, my official position on the Port is that it's considerably better than "not-so-good."

May 1, 2002, 11:23 AM	#1
Bullwinkle Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2000 Posts: 283	Non-Match Reloading Info for the M1A I'm getting ready to get set up to reload 308 for my M1A. I've been studying up to figure out what tools and techniques I will need to use for reloading this caliber (previously I've only done straight wall pistol on a 550). I've found lots and lots of stuff on the web about match grade reloading for the 308. I'm not interested in producing match grade ammo. It would be a waste for my gun and purposes. I'm really interested in producing ammo that is first and foremost Safe, secondarily Economical (time and money wise), and hopefully at least a little bit more accurate than the cheep surplus. Any suggestions of steps in match reloading process that can be eliminated would be helpful. Its sometimes hard to figure out which steps are completed for safety, which are necessary for wholesale accuracy improvment, and which are fine tuning for ultimate accuracy. Also, any suggested sources for components would be appreciated.

May 1, 2002, 01:05 PM	#2
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	My suggestion: I have found that mil surplus is considerably cheaper than trying to load non-match ammo. Just get some Portugese mil-surp and shoot. Trust me, you'll come out cheaper.

May 3, 2002, 01:19 AM	#5
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Here's a good one that has worked well for me: 147-150 gr. FMJBT, military surplus 42.0 grains IMR 4895 Federal Large Rifle Match primers Seat bullet to cannelure, and use the Lee Factory Crimp die. From my M1A, I get 1/2 MOA constantly at 100 yards with this load. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

May 3, 2002, 08:48 PM	#9
Target Shooter Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2000 Posts: 176	Not to discredit inexpensive surplus ammo or anything that Steve has written but I agree with HankL. You discuss reloading topics on a "Handloading and Reloading" forum for information on reloading... The attractiveness of surplus ammo is the price, it just so happens that some rifles shoot it very well. I have cases of surplus ammo for when I get too lazy to reload. Here is the breakdown of my reloaded ammo. Keep in mind I reload for a great hobby and I buy in bulk to reduce the cost. I shop gunshows for deals and buy when the price is right! The below prices reflect what I paid for my supplies. The breakdown if for 1000 rounds of ammo. Federal Brass @ $150.00 per 1000 cases new that can be reloaded 10 times will equal 1.5 cents per case times 1000 rounds equals $15.00 Primers for $60.00 per 5000 will equal 1.2 cents each times 1000 equals $12.00 Powder at $70.00 per 8 lb jug will equal $54.37 per 1000 rounds. Bullets I paid $11.00 per box times 10 boxes equals $110.00 per 1000 rounds. $191.37 for 1000 rounds of ammo. About 4 cents more per round than surplus...and it shoots a lot better in my rifle. The last case of Portuguese I bought cost me $150.00 for 960 round case. Sure it's cheaper, but my hobby is reloading and shooting, and of course I sneak a gun or two into the safes for collecting. TS Last edited by Target Shooter; May 3, 2002 at 09:12 PM.

May 5, 2002, 01:45 AM	#14
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	To each his own... Anyone here who knows me knows that I'm a match shooter, and therefore concerned with accuracy. However, when the use of a cartridge will not require exceptional accuracy, it only makes sense to look into surplus ammo. Taking the time to load your own not-so-good ammo for more than the off-the-shelf not-so-good ammo costs just doesn't make sense. BTW, my official position on the Port is that it's considerably better than "not-so-good."

May 2, 2002, 08:31 PM	#3
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	If you have brass or can get it cheap consider using mil surp projectiles and powder. Using IMI projectiles from Wiedners, powder from the McDonalds and CCI primers I'm not out very much for a round of quality 308 ammo. I reload this on my 650 with good results. The only trick to loading anything for the M1A or any other gas gun for that matter, is that you need to know exactly what you are doing. Time will be an investment in learning this as well as in producing safe reliable ammo for your M1A. Up to you to decide on this matter. Springfield and the major M1 smiths don't tell folks not to use reloads for the heck of it.

May 2, 2002, 11:30 PM	#4
Target Shooter Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2000 Posts: 176	Here's a good accurate load that I've been shooting in my M1A for quite a few years: FED Brass WIN Large Rifle Primer SPEER 165G Boat Tail Spire Point Bullet Accurate Arms 2520 Powder / 43.5 grains Overall Cartridge Length = 2.800 This load shoots 1” – 1 ½”@100 YDS in my M1A. I use this load for my general purpose target shooting / plinking load. Enjoy, TS As Always, Please check all reloading data against a current reloading book before using any data from an unknown source.

May 3, 2002, 09:48 AM	#6
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	I'd like to see an honest cost breakdown of all the above mentioned loads. www.ammoman.com has 1000 rounds of Portugese in battle packs for $179 delivered.

May 3, 2002, 04:18 PM	#7
Bullwinkle Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2000 Posts: 283	Better price on the Port here: http://198.63.62.70/acatalog/AIM_Rif...unition_8.html I placed an order yesterday. After costing everythin out its pretty clear you cant come anywhere close to the economics of the surplus by reloading. To even come close to the surplus price you have to go with the way bottom end components. This all got me wondering..... If you took the Port. pulled the bullets, turned the necks, hand measured the powder charges and reseated the bullets to match your chamber I wonder what the accuracy would be like?

May 3, 2002, 08:16 PM	#8
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	Steve, Please don't make me try to justify having a 650 set up for 308, several 50 cal ammo cans full of 308 projectiles and 40 or 50 lbs of the appropriate powder. This forum is all about reloading isn't it? I purchase surplus when I find a good deal and Federal Match as well. One can never have enough ammo. My main point here is if a person is going to take up reloading for an M14/M1A, M1 Garand or most any gas operated rifle they will need to spend some time making sure the rounds being produced will be appropriate. Bullwinkle, I think you will do just fine shooting the ammo you ordered right out of the box.

May 4, 2002, 01:54 AM	#11
LONGRIFLE30 Member Join Date: February 16, 2002 Location: Wichita Falls,TX. Posts: 49	Bullwinkle, try this with 147-150 grainers: 50.0 grains of Varget, or 49 grains of IMR-4350, but not with AP bullets, back off 2 grains and work up.

May 4, 2002, 12:19 PM	#12
Fatelvis Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Lockport, IL Posts: 490	TargetShooter, I`m not being sarcastic, but do you get 10 loadings out of a case (for the M1A)? I figure about 5, for mine. Just wondering, maybe I have alot of headspace,(Douglas match bbl, fitted by a good gunsmith), or my extractor isnt fitted right, but my M1A is pretty rough on cases. I find that after 5 loadings, I find evidence of head sep, and in general it`s pretty dinged up. I use 40.5-41 grns IMR4895/168 grn Sierra, so I dont think I`m shooting a hot load, either. And I use a Wilson case guage, to check shoulder set-back. Just wondering if I`m doing something different-

May 4, 2002, 09:40 PM	#13
Target Shooter Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2000 Posts: 176	Fatelvis, My M1A is real easy on my brass. It doens't ding it up and it lasts at least 10 reloadings. I'll reload the same 200 cases over and over until I find they are getting loose in the primer pockets then I chuck them. (Actually I turn them in for scrap) The only thing you should do is anneal the necks after every 5 firings. This will prevent the necks from splitting. I never had a headspace problem with mine so I don't get any signs of head separation. Another thing that extends the life of your brass is don't load max or near max loads. I used Remington brass in my Remington 700 PDM in 308 for 17 reloadings. Annealed the necks every 5 reloadings and only chucked them because about 10% of the primer pockets were getting loose. Thanks for asking. TS