38 special

[rmocarsky]

Greetings,

How does a 38 Special +P from a 4" bbl. stack up against the 9mm?

That is all.

Rmocarsky

[tlm225]

According to ballistics by the inch, with a 4" barrel for the 9mm, the 9mm has a 150-200 FPS edge with comparable bullet weights.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/

[JERRYS.]

158gr. .38spl @ 875fps @ 268.5 kinetic foot pounds muzzle energy.
147gr. 9mm @ 950fps. @ 294.5 kinetic foot pounds muzzle energy.

[Cheapshooter]

If it is for self defense I'll bet a bad guy can't tell you which one hurts the most, or which one killed them the best!

[4V50 Gary]

Shot placement is everything. 38 Special beats a rock or the finger.

[kymasabe]

I wouldn't want to be shot with either. Even in non-+P form, either are a good choice for self defense.

[pblanc]

Close, but no cigar. The problem is that 38 Special does not seem to offer nearly as wide a range of self defense ammunition as there is for 9 mm Parabellum.

[IdaD]

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/

Gel tests aren't perfect but this still has a lot of useful info to compare different calibers, including 9mm and 38.

[briandg]

Don't get too wrapped up in power figures. At the end of the wound channel you can look back to find a pretty long bloody hole that either one of them made. It's my understanding that there are far more important things to worry about than whether or not one cartridge is stronger or faster than the other by the small margin such as comparing standard nine to .38.

You aren't comparing the nine to the .357.

[rock185]

rmocarsky, I have chronographed some 38 Special and 9mm in a variety of firearms and would have no argument with BBTI's numbers. If anything though, I've found BBTI's 150-200 FPS advantage of the 9MM to be conservative......

[JERRYS.]

Originally Posted by pblanc

Close, but no cigar. The problem is that 38 Special does not seem to offer nearly as wide a range of self defense ammunition as there is for 9 mm Parabellum.

that's because revolvers aren't ammo sensitive like semiautos.

[Doc Holliday 1950]

what is The average speed of a 32 H&R 80 grain Hornady ammo vs. the average speed of a 38 special?
The same question is for Muzzle Energy ft.-lb. The 32 H&R Hornady is fired from a LCR 327 in magnum 1.87"

The 38 special is fired from any revolver of similar barrel length

I hope I wrote this post correctly.

[tipoc]

Greetings,

How does a 38 Special +P from a 4" bbl. stack up against the 9mm?

That is all.

What bullet weights? What type bullets? For self defense or pest hunting?

what is The average speed of a 32 H&R 80 grain Hornady ammo vs. the average speed of a 38 special?
The same question is for Muzzle Energy ft.-lb. The 32 H&R Hornady is fired from a LCR 327 in magnum 1.87"

The 38 special is fired from any revolver of similar barrel length

There are many loads for the 38 Spl. and weight bullets. Anything from about 90grs to 200 grs for very different purposes. So to say an average speed is and could be misleading when comparing to another round. There are fewer selections of bullet types and weight's for the 32 H&R.

Folks may want to pick up a reloading manual, new or used, and do some comparing to the ballistics there. Or Forker's book Ammo and Ballistics. These are often easier to use than the internet.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/32hr.html

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Handguns/Handguns.html

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/

These and other places may help you.

Here look at some of the ammo here. You can look up the technical specs by clicking on what you want to look at.

https://www.midwayusa.com/32-h-and-r-magnum/br?cid=9523

https://www.midwayusa.com/38-special/br?cid=21694

https://www.midwayusa.com/9mm-luger/br?cid=21659


tipoc

[lordvader]

If you look throughout history, many people have been killed with a standard LRN bullet from 22s to 45s. So don't short change the 38 special.

[SaxonPig]

Factory 38 ammo has to be kept mild due to the proliferation of old and crappy guns in this caliber. The +P really isn't and I consider it a very weak load. Properly loaded the 38 can match the 9mm but no factory load will do it.

[briandg]

They are really two different cartridges with completely different properties. you could create a load that would match the nine simply based on capacity and bullet characteristics,

The nine, however, is loaded to 35,000 or so pressure and the .38 special is limited to roughly half that for standard loads.


If you loaded the .38 special up to 35,000 pressure, you would have a .357 magnum.

The nine was created for lighter high velocity semi automatic rounds and the .38 was created as a black powder equivalent round, with high capacity and heavy bullets, for use with guns made to shoot lower pressures. Weaker steel and 1800's workmanship.

[rodfac]

Don't get too wrapped up in power figures. At the end of the wound channel you can look back to find a pretty long bloody hole that either one of them made. It's my understanding that there are far more important things to worry about than whether or not one cartridge is stronger or faster than the other by the small margin such as comparing standard nine to .38.

Good post, Brian and very true. Rod

[stinkeypete]

I am with Brian, except

38 special is a straight wall case .357” vs a smaller tapered case .355”

.38 is a much better starting foundation for hand loading ammunition. .357 magnum is a better choice in a 4” barrel because you never need to go full throttle, but you have the choice. I suspect the resale value on .357s is better because “more is better” mentality

[T. O'Heir]

Doing what? Comparing 'em is an apples and oranges thing.
SAAMI Max pressure for the .38 Special +P is 18,500 PSI. 35,000 for the 9mm.
However, that doesn't mean a lot if you're trying to compare which one is better for SD. The answer to that question is neither is better. Poke a hole in a bad guy with either and he'll stop bothering you.
"...the ballistics there..." Rarely any ballistics in loading manuals. Ballistics isn't just about velocity or pressures. If the manual even has pressure numbers.

[Drm50]

I've got a few boxes of Winchester 200gr 38sp that look like they might hurt if you put one it a bad guys pelt.

[44 AMP]

How does a 38 Special +P from a 4" bbl. stack up against the 9mm?

It depends entirely on WHICH ammo you are comparing.

Suppose I compare a modern .38Spl +p with an expanding bullet that actually expands against the original 9mm load which was a 124gr FMJ at 1050fps from a 4" barrel.

Not quite the same thing is it?

if you know where to look, (or you're old enough to remember) there are decades and decades of gun writers ALL rating the .38 Special above the 9mm for self defense. The "why" was simple. In those days, there were NO factory loaded JHP bullets. The .38 Special was loaded with lead bullets which would, sometimes, deform and expand a bit. The 9mm was loaded with FMJ bullets which would not.

Today, there is a much, much wider selection of loads in both calibers, so comparisons have to be as much "apples to apples" as we can make them, or they're essentially meaningless.

And, don't take anybody's velocity numbers as gospel for what you will get from your gun. Probably close, but variations of as much as 100fps are not unknown.

[briandg]

I'd like to point out something that has been touched on but not explicitly pointed out.

Our bullets are precisely engineered and designed to function perfectly within a reasonably wide range of velocities, and designed to function well under as many conditions as can be expected. Frankly, when you collect matching brand and weight bullets at similar energy levels and velocity, the tested bullets from either of those rounds at with similar attributes will be indistinguishable by any normal means. I guess that only a cannelure would give it away to the average guy.

There are no absolutes. Using either of those rounds may give slightly different performance traits. Now consider that there are too many variables, and unpredictable happenings. A round may work perfectly 90% of the time in normal use. Then, the next round will hit the spleen, reverse course, and pop out of the bad guy's nose. Don't plan on anything based on the round, the bullet, the gun. None of those things matter compared to the simple facts of random deviations.

That said, will the .38 gives the same level of performance as the .500 S&W? Don't be daft. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you will have to make major alterations in the two test subjects before you can get easily measurable differences.

[tipoc]

38 special
Greetings,

How does a 38 Special +P from a 4" bbl. stack up against the 9mm?

That is all.

Rmocarsky

There are a lot of good answers here especially given how broad the question is. So...what is it exactly that you want to know that has not been provided already or that could help folks get at what you are asking?

It's hard to tell if the question involves ballistics (energy and momentum) or choice of a sidearm for some unstated purpose.

tipoc

[briandg]

Either one works quite well as the starter pistol for the fat man's rush for safety.

Good point made. I guess that in the strictest sense the 9mm overall length at 1.140 compared to the .38 spl at 1.55 means that the .38 is better, but factually, if you are using archaic rounds, you can't stack them up at all. Using modern rounds with flat faced hollow points they both stack up very well.

I guess that this is the same answer I gave earlier, but just a ridiculous turn on the phraseology.

[TruthTellers]

It depends on the ammo, the boutique stuff from Buffalo Bore/Underwood/Doubletap will likely exceed most 9mm, but when we're talking about off the shelf Walmart ammo, the 9mm will beat it.

I personally don't buy .38 Special only revolvers with barrels over 3 inches as you get so much more out of .357 and still have the option of .38. For 9mm revolvers, it's snub lengths only, there's no sense in a 4 inch 9mm revolver unless you want a revolver you can shoot a lot at the range and not spend a lot of money on ammo.

One thing I do want to mention is I find that cheap (the stuff under $15 a box) 9mm ammo shoots better than the cheap .38 ammo, which always costs more.

If this is for self defense, 9mm is fine, but if you're looking for defense against a hog or some other large-ish animal, .38 and it's heavier bullets is better.