hard times; store his guns at my house?

max it · May 27, 2025, 09:34 AM

So, 'Heathcliff Huxtable' lost his home and now rents a room to live in. Since there are kids in the house he wants to store his arms in my safe.

What legal right have I to keep it all here? Oh and this is California!

Much obliged, Max

ocharry · May 27, 2025, 10:38 AM

i had my ol hunting parners guns for a couple years when he went through a devorce.....he sold them to me for a dollar..and then i sold them back to him for a dollar

i think you need some money in the game...just in case...and maybe a receipt

just a thought

**JohnKSa** · May 27, 2025, 11:14 AM

He must reside in the same state that you do or it will be a federal felony for you to take possession of his firearms without going through an FFL.

You need to make sure that all of his firearms are compliant with any laws that apply in your state.

You need to make sure that the change of possession does not violate any laws that apply in your state.

**Aguila Blanca** · May 27, 2025, 02:03 PM

A number of years ago an FFL I knew had a customer who had a protective order taken out against him during a divorce proceeding. The customer wasn't allowed to possess firearms. He asked the FFL to keep them. The FFL was willing to do so, but he didn't want that number of guns (there were "a lot") going through his bound book. What was finally worked out between the FFL, the local police department, and the BATFE was that the customer's gun safe was moved into the FFL's shop ... but the FFL was not given the combination. The theory was that, this way, nobody had access to the guns.

That safe sat there for months -- and then one day it was gone. The divorce was finished and the protective order had been dissolved.

It's important to note that this arrangement was reviewed with applicable LE agencies before being implemented.

tangolima · May 27, 2025, 05:35 PM

CA may still have the law forbidding loaning firearms. Better check to be sure.

When I was gunsmithing at friend's shop, he had customer paying him to store guns because of similar situations. It was quite a doing entering each one into the bound book. Supposedly the same when they got checked out.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

**Aguila Blanca** · May 27, 2025, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangolima

CA may still have the law forbidding loaning firearms. Better check to be sure.

When I was gunsmithing at friend's shop, he had customer paying him to store guns because of similar situations. It was quite a doing entering each one into the bound book. Supposedly the same when they got checked out.

This is exactly why the FFL I mentioned arranged for the locked safe to be delivered to his shop and left there, without him knowing the combination. As I mentioned, the owner was under a protective order, so he couldn't legally have access to the guns. The local police and the BATFE office were willing to stipulate that as long as the FFL didn't have the combination to the safe, no transfers had occurred so it wasn't necessary to do the bound book thing.

It's an idea. Depending on the number and type of guns, it might not require a "safe" with a combination -- it could be one of those Homak gun cabinets with a key lock. I would consider asking a lawyer about such an agreement, and I would ask the owner of the firearms to sign a waiver indemnifying you in the event of any theft or damage.

tangolima · May 27, 2025, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

This is exactly why the FFL I mentioned arranged for the locked safe to be delivered to his shop and left there, without him knowing the combination. As I mentioned, the owner was under a protective order, so he couldn't legally have access to the guns. The local police and the BATFE office were willing to stipulate that as long as the FFL didn't have the combination to the safe, no transfers had occurred so it wasn't necessary to do the bound book thing.

It's an idea. Depending on the number and type of guns, it might not require a "safe" with a combination -- it could be one of those Homak gun cabinets with a key lock. I would consider asking a lawyer about such an agreement, and I would ask the owner of the firearms to sign a waiver indemnifying you in the event of any theft or damage.

Firearms on property, even behind lock, that are not accounted for. If the ATF gives the blessing, it is kosher. Apparently my friend didn't have it at the time. The guns were checked in under consignment, if I remember correctly.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

dogtown tom · May 27, 2025, 08:26 PM

Quote:

max it So, 'Heathcliff Huxtable' lost his home and now rents a room to live in. Since there are kids in the house he wants to store his arms in my safe.

What legal right have I to keep it all here? Oh and this is California!

Federal law considers this a transfer of possession between nonlicensees who reside in the same state.

I would strongly encourage you to find out what California law says. I suspect such a transfer of possession is illegal under state law.

dogtown tom · May 27, 2025, 08:27 PM

Quote:

ocharry i had my ol hunting parners guns for a couple years when he went through a devorce.....he sold them to me for a dollar..and then i sold them back to him for a dollar

i think you need some money in the game...just in case...and maybe a receipt

just a thought

$$$$ has no bearing on the lawful transfer of a firearm.

dogtown tom · May 27, 2025, 08:28 PM

Quote:

JohnKSa He must reside in the same state that you do or it will be a federal felony for you to take possession of his firearms without going through an FFL.

You need to make sure that all of his firearms are compliant with any laws that apply in your state.

You need to make sure that the change of possession does not violate any laws that apply in your state.

This

**Aguila Blanca** · May 28, 2025, 12:21 AM

What dogtown tom wrote is correct (as usual).

In the case of the FFL in my story, the local authorities were willing to agree that as long as the FFL didn't have the combination to open the safe, no transfer had occurred. This is the same principle as a residence in which a prohibited person lives. Other residents in the house can own firearms, BUT they must remain locked up so the prohibited person doesn't have access to them. If the prohibited person has the combination or keys to the safe, it's a violation.

ocharry · May 28, 2025, 10:19 AM

dogtown...what i was talking about happened 40+ years ago...and at the time we both lived in the same state and at that time...not sure how it is now, been gone from there for 25 years....anyway it was legal for individual sales(person to person...no transfer needed)to happen...no ffl required

i live in Missouri now and i pretty sure you can still do a person to person sale...i have done it in the past...i always want a bill of sale and copy of a Missouri I.D.

i was just saying that in our case the dollar made it a sale not a get rid of the stuff....legal or not thats what we did

and i get it ...i should not be giving advice if i dont know what i am talking about....ok....i will shut my pie hole and just listen...

FITASC · May 28, 2025, 05:25 PM

Quote:

A number of years ago an FFL I knew had a customer who had a protective order taken out against him during a divorce proceeding. The customer wasn't allowed to possess firearms. He asked the FFL to keep them. The FFL was willing to do so, but he didn't want that number of guns (there were "a lot") going through his bound book. What was finally worked out between the FFL, the local police department, and the BATFE was that the customer's gun safe was moved into the FFL's shop ... but the FFL was not given the combination. The theory was that, this way, nobody had access to the guns.

That safe sat there for months -- and then one day it was gone. The divorce was finished and the protective order had been dissolved.

It's important to note that this arrangement was reviewed with applicable LE agencies before being implemented.

What a unique way to solve this scenario!

natman · May 29, 2025, 11:28 AM

Keeping the first party's guns at the second party's home would be a transfer. Whether or not money changed hands has nothing to do with it.

California does NOT allow private party transfers without the services of an FFL, 4473s, background checks etc. Keeping the guns in a safe at the second party's house that the second party does not have access to might work, but if the first party was in a position to buy a safe, he could just keep the guns in it at his house.

I am not a lawyer, and I would recommend that one be consulted before doing any sort of transfer.

paperwork351 · May 31, 2025, 11:47 PM

There is a service called GunSitters - Firearm Storage Vault service. I'm sure there are others. Gunsitters.com.

**Aguila Blanca** · June 1, 2025, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paperwork351

There is a service called GunSitters - Firearm Storage Vault service. I'm sure there are others. Gunsitters.com.

WOW!

Almost $200 per month for a high school hall locker.

I am NOT impressed.

Mannlicher · June 9, 2025, 05:52 PM

even folks that say they know what they are saying are often wrong with issues like this. Instead of asking here, the folks involved would be best served if they got the opinion of an attorney in California and preferably in the county and city involved.
From my point of view, I'd just stash the guns and keep my mouth shut.

May 27, 2025, 09:34 AM	#1
max it Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: near Disneyland Posts: 283	hard times; store his guns at my house? So, 'Heathcliff Huxtable' lost his home and now rents a room to live in. Since there are kids in the house he wants to store his arms in my safe. What legal right have I to keep it all here? Oh and this is California! Much obliged, Max

May 27, 2025, 10:38 AM	#2
ocharry Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2006 Posts: 764	i had my ol hunting parners guns for a couple years when he went through a devorce.....he sold them to me for a dollar..and then i sold them back to him for a dollar i think you need some money in the game...just in case...and maybe a receipt just a thought __________________ The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC

May 27, 2025, 11:14 AM	#3
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 25,557	He must reside in the same state that you do or it will be a federal felony for you to take possession of his firearms without going through an FFL. You need to make sure that all of his firearms are compliant with any laws that apply in your state. You need to make sure that the change of possession does not violate any laws that apply in your state. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

May 27, 2025, 02:03 PM	#4
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 19,033	A number of years ago an FFL I knew had a customer who had a protective order taken out against him during a divorce proceeding. The customer wasn't allowed to possess firearms. He asked the FFL to keep them. The FFL was willing to do so, but he didn't want that number of guns (there were "a lot") going through his bound book. What was finally worked out between the FFL, the local police department, and the BATFE was that the customer's gun safe was moved into the FFL's shop ... but the FFL was not given the combination. The theory was that, this way, nobody had access to the guns. That safe sat there for months -- and then one day it was gone. The divorce was finished and the protective order had been dissolved. It's important to note that this arrangement was reviewed with applicable LE agencies before being implemented. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

May 28, 2025, 12:21 AM	#11
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 19,033	What dogtown tom wrote is correct (as usual). In the case of the FFL in my story, the local authorities were willing to agree that as long as the FFL didn't have the combination to open the safe, no transfer had occurred. This is the same principle as a residence in which a prohibited person lives. Other residents in the house can own firearms, BUT they must remain locked up so the prohibited person doesn't have access to them. If the prohibited person has the combination or keys to the safe, it's a violation. __________________ NRA Life Member / Certified Instructor NRA Chief RSO / CMP RSO 1911 Certified Armorer Jeepaholic

May 27, 2025, 05:35 PM	#5
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 5,105	CA may still have the law forbidding loaning firearms. Better check to be sure. When I was gunsmithing at friend's shop, he had customer paying him to store guns because of similar situations. It was quite a doing entering each one into the bound book. Supposedly the same when they got checked out. -TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

May 28, 2025, 10:19 AM	#12
ocharry Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2006 Posts: 764	dogtown...what i was talking about happened 40+ years ago...and at the time we both lived in the same state and at that time...not sure how it is now, been gone from there for 25 years....anyway it was legal for individual sales(person to person...no transfer needed)to happen...no ffl required i live in Missouri now and i pretty sure you can still do a person to person sale...i have done it in the past...i always want a bill of sale and copy of a Missouri I.D. i was just saying that in our case the dollar made it a sale not a get rid of the stuff....legal or not thats what we did and i get it ...i should not be giving advice if i dont know what i am talking about....ok....i will shut my pie hole and just listen... __________________ The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge nor jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC

May 29, 2025, 11:28 AM	#14
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2008 Posts: 2,678	Keeping the first party's guns at the second party's home would be a transfer. Whether or not money changed hands has nothing to do with it. California does NOT allow private party transfers without the services of an FFL, 4473s, background checks etc. Keeping the guns in a safe at the second party's house that the second party does not have access to might work, but if the first party was in a position to buy a safe, he could just keep the guns in it at his house. I am not a lawyer, and I would recommend that one be consulted before doing any sort of transfer. __________________ Time Travelers' Wisdom: Never Do Yesterday What Should Be Done Tomorrow. If At Last You Do Succeed, Never Try Again.

May 31, 2025, 11:47 PM	#15
paperwork351 Junior Member Join Date: February 10, 2019 Posts: 3	There is a service called GunSitters - Firearm Storage Vault service. I'm sure there are others. Gunsitters.com.

June 9, 2025, 05:52 PM	#17
Mannlicher Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: North Central Florida & Miami Posts: 3,237	even folks that say they know what they are saying are often wrong with issues like this. Instead of asking here, the folks involved would be best served if they got the opinion of an attorney in California and preferably in the county and city involved. From my point of view, I'd just stash the guns and keep my mouth shut. __________________ Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan