PDA

View Full Version : Is the .260 Remington (or any 6.5mm) alive and well?


kcub
August 22, 2015, 03:25 AM
Per wiki and other online articles it has the same ballistics as a .300 Winchester magnum with a fraction of the recoil and in a much lighter rifle.

Older slightly less powerful 6.5 mms like the 6.5×54mm Mannlicher–Schönauer are proven long time favorites in the Scandinavian countries for moose hunting.

Seems like it ought to be the go to cartridge for all kinds of hunting and long range use. Other than gun and ammo availability it seems like the .308's better.

kraigwy
August 22, 2015, 08:04 AM
Yes the 6.5s are alive. They are dominating long range precision shooting.

6.5 CM, 6.5X47, 6.5X55, 260 Rem, to name a few.

Look at the results from matches, you'll see 6.5s at the top. And commercial ammo makers realize this and are making factory ammo and components.

Personally I don't own a 6.5 except my build in progress 6.5X55, but its a long ways out. Maybe this winter.

And its going to be hard for me to pass up Ruger's new Precision rifle if I see one in 6.5 Creedmoor. Don't need one, but that's never stopped me before.

If some on is going to get into long range shooting today I would highly recommend that he look into the 6.5s.

603Country
August 22, 2015, 08:52 AM
I hunt with a 260, having parked my 270. I really like the round. It'll do all I need it to do. I think of the round as about 85% or 90% of the 270. Sort of like a slightly smaller hammer. What I really like is the lack of recoil, super accuracy, and the light and handy rifle (Tikka).

If I was going to have a new 6.5 caliber rifle built, I think I might go with the 6.5-284 or the 6.5 Rem Mag. But...if I really felt like I needed more horsepower, I'd probably just dust off the 270.

jmr40
August 22, 2015, 08:52 AM
They are just starting to catch on with the general public and hunters. I think they will be the next big thing in shooting. As said they have been proven in the long range shooting sports. It takes time for things to filter down.

precision_shooter
August 22, 2015, 09:09 AM
I really like my 6.5 Creedmoor Savage 12 LRP. So much so that I'm looking for a light weight hunting rifle so chambered.

If Ruger would make the Ruger American in 6.5 Creedmoor with a 18"-20" barrel instead of 22", I would have bought one already.

I'm leaning towards getting another Tikka T3 Light and having the barrel swapped out to a custom 18" barrel in 6.5 Creedmoor. Wonder if the Mrs. Would notice? :cool:

Gunplummer
August 23, 2015, 12:47 AM
I have been using a variety 6.5's for years. The problem now is hunting bullet shortage for me. Somebody must be using them.

kcub
August 24, 2015, 06:53 AM
Which is better for semi auto, 6.5 Creedmoor or .260 Remington?

Magazines?
Ammo availability?

precision_shooter
August 24, 2015, 07:16 AM
For a Semi, I would say the 6.5 Creedmoor is better as it will allow you to seat the heavy bullets farther out and still fit in the mag.

doofus47
August 24, 2015, 10:22 AM
6.5s appear to be carving out a solid niche with distance shooters and are making in roads into hunting.
I bought a bolt rifle chambered in 260 remington as an antelope stopper as per the suggestion of a friend of mine who used to shoot long distance. It's a great cartridge with no apparent downside. I plan on keeping it for my kids' introduction to big game hunting. I might keep it for that point in time where my 30-06 gets to be too much.

Happy Shooting

natman
August 25, 2015, 02:57 PM
Is the .260 Remington (or any 6.5mm) alive and well?
Per wiki and other online articles it has the same ballistics as a .300 Winchester magnum with a fraction of the recoil and in a much lighter rifle.

I don't know how a 260 Remington can have the same ballistics as a 300 Win Mag. Same trajectory maybe, same terminal ballistics, no way.

Nevertheless it's an excellent hunting round. It's a better big game round than the 243 without a lot more recoil. IMO, Remington missed the boat by making the default load 140 grains instead of 120 which would have given the round a clear identity between the 100 grain 243 and the 140 grain 7mm-08. As it was the 260 has never gotten the attention it deserves.

The 6.5x55 is very popular. It gives almost identical performance as the 260 in factory loadings and surpasses it when handloaded in modern rifles.

The Big D
August 25, 2015, 11:03 PM
The 6.5 Creedmoor is the hot round right now - everyone is making rifles in it. Personally I would not chamber a hunting rifle in it (I'd much prefer 7mm-08 or .308 to give me access to 150gr+ bullets) but for target applications it's the bees knees. The .260 has been a steady but not spectacular seller for a long time, and has a slight edge in case capacity.

6.5x55 is the 6.5mm chambering I'd avoid. Other than Cooper, there are no new US made rifles chambered in it. Remington used to make the 700 classic, and as far as I can tell they dropped it. Given the lack of ballistic advantages to the 6.5x55, I see no reason to board a sinking ship.

johnwilliamson062
August 26, 2015, 01:13 AM
CZ chamber for the Swede. SO do some other European makers.

kcub
August 26, 2015, 03:31 AM
What about the 6.5 Grendel?

The Big D
August 26, 2015, 10:14 AM
CZ chamber for the Swede. SO do some other European makers.
Yes, it's still reasonably popular in Europe. But the 6.5 Creedmoor has target and hunting rifles from 4 or 5 major US manufacturers plus the usual crop of small guys. That means it's going to be healthier in the long term in the US.

If you're buying for use in Europe, 6.5x55 is a better option.

Unlicensed Dremel
August 26, 2015, 10:23 AM
Yes, many many 6.5s are alive and well, including the .260 rem. But the 6.5 creedmoor has gained a lot of ground on the similar .260 rem, and is now roughly equal in popularity, or perhaps a smidge more.

6.5-.284 Norma

6.5x55 swedish

Both of those have GAINED popularity by a large margin in the last 10 years.



.260 Rem

6.5 Grendel

6.5mm-'06 and 6.5mm-'06 AI (both wildcats or semi-wildcats with small niches)

These are holding steady.



6.5 Creedmoor

.26 Nosler

6.5 RSAUM

All are up and coming, especially the Creedmoor.


Some people even doing 6.5 RUM now.... a few anyway.

The Big D
August 26, 2015, 10:24 AM
What about the 6.5 Grendel?

Hard to get feeding in an auto, under-performing in a bolt. More cartridge development focused on straighter wall cases is needed to get AR15 shooters a decent 6.5. 6.5 SPC (not a typo) is the best of the wildcats right now IMO.

Unlicensed Dremel
August 26, 2015, 10:25 AM
Hard to get feeding in an auto, under-performing in a bolt. More cartridge development focused on straighter wall cases is needed to get AR15 shooters a decent 6.5. 6.5 SPC (not a typo) is the best of the wildcats right now IMO.

I find that very interesting and believable.

Can you point me to a thread anywhere with solid evidence of feed issues with 6.5 grendel in AR15s?

Thanks.

The Big D
August 26, 2015, 10:39 AM
I'll take a look later. They've got the same issues as all 7.62x39 or PPC-based cases in the AR: they really want a more curved magazine like the AK has. The old discussion about the Colt 7.62x39 ARs is pretty much still applicable.

TimW77
August 26, 2015, 05:07 PM
"Hard to get feeding in an auto... More cartridge development focused on straighter wall cases is needed"

Internet BS! And, as usual WRONG...

With FOUR rifles in 6.5 Grendel, I've NEVER had a problem with feeding. Have you shot even one?


"They've got the same issues as all 7.62x39 or PPC-based cases in the AR: they really want a more curved magazine like the AK has."

Duh, have you even seen the 6.5 G case? Instead of "looking later" you need to look now!:eek:

The problem with the 7.62X39mm feeding in an AR-15 due to excessive case taper does NOT EXIST with the Grendel case. LOOK at the case, although based on a 7.62X39mm case, most of the taper has been taken out.

Come on guy, seriously, LOOK...:rolleyes:

AND, the 6.8 SPC case has MORE TAPER than the 6.5 Grendel, .021" for the SPC vs. .014" for the Grendel.

The 6mm PPC has EVEN LESS taper, .010". Kind of blows you "internet wanna-be expert theory" about case taper.

Both the Grendel and the 6mm PPC have even less taper than the .223 Rem of .024". Again guy, seriously, LOOK!!!:rolleyes:

T.

The Big D
August 26, 2015, 10:33 PM
Yeah, I owned one. Now it's feed issues are someone else's problem.

The 6.5 Grendel is a bad idea. Plain and simple. It's too fat at the butt - .445 is too big to wedge into a normal AR magazine, and a lot of the brass I've seen is every bit of .445 at the rim which makes feeding worse. AA tried special followers and what not, but the basic problem is it doesn't fit. The 6.8 SPC case barely fits at .422.

There's a reason the AK magazine is roughly 1/8" wider than the AR magazine and curved - you have to make space back there.

idek
August 26, 2015, 10:47 PM
Not to hijack the thread, but I've been interested in 6.5 cartridges for a while for a general purpose hunting rifle. Looking ahead 5 years or so, does it seem like the .260 Remington or 6.5 CM will win out in terms of factory ammo options and availability?...again, thinking in terms of hunting.

The Big D
August 26, 2015, 10:55 PM
The .260 will probably have better hunting support for the foreseeable future.

TimW77
August 27, 2015, 12:24 AM
"Yeah, I owned one. Now it's feed issues are someone else's problem."

Maybe you should have build/purchased a better quality rifle. Or even more likely you just needed better magazines. My FOUR Grendels have NEVER had a problem feeding, firing or ejecting...


"The 6.5 Grendel is a bad idea."

Opinion from an internet "expert" in cartridge designing?:rolleyes:


"AA tried special followers and what not..."

Nothing new or unusual, many NON-.223 based caertridges need special followers INCLUDING the 6.8 SPC and others.


"There's a reason the AK magazine is roughly 1/8" wider than the AR magazine and curved..."

An extra 1/8" width or length would help many cartridges in the AR-15...

The Grendel is a greatly IMPROVED 7.62X39mm case. But, AGAIN and AGAIN, MOST of the taper has been taken out of the Grendel case so the AR-15 problem with the highly tapered Russian case does not exist...

T.

TimW77
August 27, 2015, 12:49 AM
"Per wiki and other online articles it has the same ballistics as a .300 Winchester magnum with a fraction of the recoil and in a much lighter rifle."

I've become a huge fan of many of the 6.5mm cartridges and the .260 Rem in particular.

As usual wiki has gotten it wrong or half right at best...

The .260 (and 6.5 CM) may have the same "trajectory" but not the same "ballistics" as a .300 WM.


"Older slightly less powerful 6.5 mms like the 6.5×54mm Mannlicher–Schönauer are proven long time favorites in the Scandinavian countries for moose hunting."

First, from what I understand, "Scandanavian moose" are far smaller that the moose species in NA.

Second, the 6.5X55 Swede and NOT the 6.5X54mm M-S/Greek is popular in Scandinavian countries.

Third, these older, less powerful 6.5mm cartridges gained their reputations shooting very heavy bullets of about 160g at relatively low velocities. These bullets had great penetration which gave them their reputations for killing game out of proportion to their size. These lower velocities also allowed early, less reliable bullets from breaking up and further increasing penetration...


"Seems like it ought to be the go to cartridge for all kinds of hunting and long range use."

I've found the 6.5mm cartridges so versatile I have sold every rifle I owned between .223R and .308W and replaced them with 2 6.5mm cartridges, the 6.5 Grendel for the AR-15 and the .260R in everything else.

With 2 cartridges in 2 rifles, I can hunt any game in NA. The .260 Rem for most and the .338-06 for the bigger stuff...

T.

DocUSMCRetired
August 28, 2015, 12:09 PM
May I direct your attention here: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/10/14/rifle-calibers-what-the-pros-use/

In fact it is so popular that Applied Ballistics Munitions now makes 260 Rem ammunition.

Edit: It is also popular enough, that some of the more well known rifle makers are releasing semi-autos in 260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor off the AR 10 Platform.

kcub
September 21, 2015, 07:06 AM
It is also popular enough, that some of the more well known rifle makers are releasing semi-autos in 260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor off the AR 10 Platform.

Anybody have one?

dvdcrr
September 23, 2015, 08:14 PM
Heres what is holding back the 6.5s. Folks wont get behind just one. You would see more 6.5 popularity if everyone would get behind the 260. Ruger is pushing the creedmoore which really only has an advantage as it pertains to semi auto use. The historical popularity of the 6.5x55 is unfurtunate in that it needs a long action but everyone wants a short action. 260 Rem is the best of all worlds. You would think it would win out as the 243 Win did with the 24's. They use the same parent case.

stagpanther
September 23, 2015, 10:48 PM
"Hard to get feeding in an auto... More cartridge development focused on straighter wall cases is needed"

Internet BS! And, as usual WRONG...

With FOUR rifles in 6.5 Grendel, I've NEVER had a problem with feeding. Have you shot even one?


"They've got the same issues as all 7.62x39 or PPC-based cases in the AR: they really want a more curved magazine like the AK has."

Duh, have you even seen the 6.5 G case? Instead of "looking later" you need to look now!

The problem with the 7.62X39mm feeding in an AR-15 due to excessive case taper does NOT EXIST with the Grendel case. LOOK at the case, although based on a 7.62X39mm case, most of the taper has been taken out.

Come on guy, seriously, LOOK...

AND, the 6.8 SPC case has MORE TAPER than the 6.5 Grendel, .021" for the SPC vs. .014" for the Grendel.

The 6mm PPC has EVEN LESS taper, .010". Kind of blows you "internet wanna-be expert theory" about case taper.

Both the Grendel and the 6mm PPC have even less taper than the .223 Rem of .024". Again guy, seriously, LOOK!!!

T.I'm guessing what they really meant was the sharp shoulder angle from case body to neck--which can in fact cause feeding issues in some set-ups. I have built and worked on a couple of ARs in this caliber and I think that it's fair to say the cartridge design is "sensitive" to hardware and magazine variations.

Txhillbilly
September 25, 2015, 08:49 PM
I shoot the 6.5 Creedmoor in a long range bolt action,and a 260 Remington in a DPMS LR260-H semi-auto. I don't shoot any factory ammo,I handload for everything I shoot.
If anyone produced the barrel contour that I have with my DPMS LR260-H back when I was looking,the semi-auto would've been a 6.5 Creedmoor also. Both rounds are so close in performance it's really a tie,but the Creedmoor has an advantage with seating longer bullets.
The good thing about reloading for the 260 is that I resize 243 brass for it,and 243 brass is pretty cheap.It's a hunting rifle to me,and I don't care if I lose brass out in the field hunting hogs-yotes-deer-etc. I do care about loosing my 6.5 Creedmoor brass,the Nosler/Norma brass ain't cheap.

Other than the butt stock,hand grip,and trigger,this rifle is factory DPMS. It shoots great,is pretty lite for this type of platform,and functions excellent.

http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af113/1Txhillbilly/DPMS%20AR10%20260%20Remington/027_zps6de60de5.jpg (http://s999.photobucket.com/user/1Txhillbilly/media/DPMS%20AR10%20260%20Remington/027_zps6de60de5.jpg.html)

ka9fax
September 26, 2015, 06:14 AM
What about a 6BR vs 6.5CM at 100 200 yards for taget?

bedlamite
September 26, 2015, 06:39 AM
What about a 6BR vs 6.5CM at 100 200 yards for taget?

The individual rifle is going to make much more difference at that range than the caliber with those choices.

I went with 260 Rem over the 6.5 Creedmoor for my Savage because Lapua brass is available.

imp
September 27, 2015, 12:14 PM
Heres what is holding back the 6.5s. Folks wont get behind just one. You would see more 6.5 popularity if everyone would get behind the 260. Ruger is pushing the creedmoore which really only has an advantage as it pertains to semi auto use. The historical popularity of the 6.5x55 is unfurtunate in that it needs a long action but everyone wants a short action. 260 Rem is the best of all worlds. You would think it would win out as the 243 Win did with the 24's. They use the same parent case


There's a lot of truth in this. There are 8 or 9 really good 6.5mm rounds, and a lot of overlap. While that's a great thing for handloaders and competitors, the casual shooters and hunters that don't reload are sitting on the sidelines, waiting to see which loads become the new classics, and which ones die in obscurity.

johnwilliamson062
September 27, 2015, 12:30 PM
I also agree with DVDCRR. That is one of my major hesitations.
I am quite certain 6.5X55 will survive in some form indefinitely because of its European popularity.
I am guessing the US will see one of three take over:
260- due to support from manufacturer
6.5CM - probably the best round on paper
6.5X55 - there are a ton of rifles out there and military surplus with an established European market, and it can do it all, but being a long action I doubt it.

Something like the 6.5 PCC could probably fill the casual shooters desire much better than any of those three.

Unlicensed Dremel
September 27, 2015, 04:21 PM
Someone refresh my memory.

Is the conventional wisdom: ".260 rem for semi-auto; 6.5 CM for turnbolt" or is it vice-versa?

MarkCO
September 27, 2015, 04:56 PM
dvdcrr's post is a good one. I think too, there are just too many cartridges.

Yes, 6.5CM for gas guns and .260 for bolt guns is the way I prefer, but if you want both, the 6.5CM. I ran mostly 123 grain bullets in the gas .260 as they were more accurate due to length issues in the AR10 pattern magazines. (I sold my AR10 pattern .260, but kept the bolt guns ) That is where the 6.5CM has the advantage, fitting in AR10 pattern magazines. The .260 was in the lead across the varied groups, but with Ruger now pushing the 6.5CM, that might turn the tide towards the CM. In PRS (long range competition) most of the competitors have 6.5s and other cartridges, but we are seeing more and more go to 6mm (6CM, 6XC, 6x47 etc.) so the LR support has waned a tad for the 6.5s. The 6.5x55 Swede is a good caliber, but a long action, but I don't think it is in trouble yet.

I also have a 6.5PCC and I love it as a mid-range cartridge in the AR15 platform. The 6.5G is a slightly better cartridge, but a little more money, less AR15 parts commonality and there is the issue of feeding. Most guys around here do not fully load their magazines and have no issues. The problem comes when you load more than 10 in a larger magazine, which for most applications is not going to happen anyway. The 6.5G is more popular, but for my uses, the 6.5PCC was a better fit.

The 6.5 bullet selection is great now, and I think it always will be with so much competition in amongst the various cartridges. If you reload, pick one and move on. If you are trying to pick one (using factory ammo) to buy in a bolt gun, toss up between the 6.5CM and .260Rem. in a gas gun, get the 6.5CM.

Target shooting inside 300 yards, go with a .223 or some .223 case based wildcat. Most 6.5s shine from 300 on out to about 1000 depending on what you are doing.

Devildog811
September 27, 2015, 08:37 PM
I love my tikka .260 with 30 mm LR leupold! It is a tack driver and the recoil is very manageable. It's not all about how big of a caliber. It's about being confident in your gun and making a good shot! .260 ammo isnt as readily available as say .270 but it can be ordered very easily or if you reload that great!!

Gunplummer
September 27, 2015, 08:39 PM
I use: .260 REM, 6.5x55, 6.5 Carcano, 6.5 Japanese and I sold others over the years. Either you like them or you don't. I am thinking maybe a 6.5-30-30 in the future.

kcub
September 28, 2015, 06:50 AM
It's too bad it's all splintered up instead of one clearcut caliber available far and wide.

As far as Ruger being behind the Creedmoor, do they make both a bolt and a semi?

MarkCO
September 28, 2015, 07:54 AM
Ruger has a .308 pattern AR that is rumored will be available in 6.5CM in 2016 and they just came our with their precision rifle (bolt) in .243, 6.5CM and .308.

For about $1100, it is a great value and while rank and file deer hunters may not take to it at 10-11 pounds, but it is a game changer. The middle to low quality precision rifle builders are in serious trouble. Some of the best PRS shooters have already tried them and given their stamp of approval. With barrel changes the same as on an AR, once aftermarket barrel makers start making barrels for it it will be THE choice for many. With the lower cost and easier barrel changes, I will likely go for the .243 chambering instead of the 6.5CM. But anyone not already invested in a caliber and gear, the 6.5CM is the best choice if they want to get into long range for about $2K...when it has been about $4K for the last decade. Only trick now is getting them.

ka9fax
October 2, 2015, 05:24 AM
I have a DPMS LR .308 on layaway at my LGS. But now i have my eye on the precision rifle and thinking about changing from .308 to 6.5CM. eather rifle would be used for BR only, and at 100 to 200 yards. The gun shop owner said he had no problem if i would like to change to the Ruger in eather cal. do you guys think this would be a good move. of course i want the most accurate rifle. Thanks

stagpanther
October 2, 2015, 05:35 AM
I have a DPMS LR .308 on layaway at my LGS. But now i have my eye on the precision rifle and thinking about changing from .308 to 6.5CM. eather rifle would be used for BR only, and at 100 to 200 yards. The gun shop owner said he had no problem if i would like to change to the Ruger in eather cal. do you guys think this would be a good move. of course i want the most accurate rifleIf ALL you intend on doing is drill holes on paper at fairly close range, my opinion is the difference between the two is a question of .5ish to 1.5ish MOA--something I'd get bored with after a while. You'd also be giving up a fairly portable semi-auto AR 10 style platform for a bolt gun. 30 cal is cheaper to reload for in general.

Going longer distances the better BC of the 6.5 starts making more sense to me for switching.

MarkCO
October 2, 2015, 07:34 AM
If for Bench shooting only, definitely go with the Ruger Precision.

.308 Pattern ARs can certainly be made to be accurate, but they are a bit more finicky with ammo and shooting technique. Also, in reality the difference in weight between the two favors the Ruger (9.7 lbs) over the DPMS (11.3 lbs) and the Ruger is at least as portable, so that is a non-issue.

.308 to 6.5CM, if you reload, will be beneficial some out past 600 yards or so. But then you will likely be dialing. The better your sighting system for bench, non timed shooting, the less the caliber matters inside transonic. If you plan on putting glass on it that is in the budget realm, then the 6.5 will be easier on you as a shooter, harder on you as the financier.

BumbleBug
October 2, 2015, 08:31 AM
Is the .260 Remington (or any 6.5mm) alive and well?
In all of the posts to this thread, I didn't see the .264 Win Mag mentioned once. I guess it is pretty much a dead duck although I thought it was making a come-back, especially with hunters(?)

MarkCO
October 2, 2015, 09:18 AM
In all of the posts to this thread, I didn't see the .264 Win Mag mentioned once. I guess it is pretty much a dead duck although I thought it was making a come-back, especially with hunters(?)

Have not seen one in years. Belted magnum with a big case and not very efficient either.

ka9fax
October 3, 2015, 02:27 AM
Thanks guys...

kcub
October 3, 2015, 05:54 AM
My gun store buddy says 6.5 Creedmoor is beating out .260 Remington what with Browning and Ruger getting behind it. Sounds like for bolt or semi its the coming thing.

Who manufactures a 6.5 Creedmoor semi currently?

Road_Clam
October 3, 2015, 08:14 AM
A good shooting buddy of mine built a r700 mutt in 6.5 cm and we shoot 600 yds weekly so I had a chance to try it. A very fast, flat and mild felt recoil so theres not much to dislike, the only downside is all the 6's and to a lesser degree the 6.5's are the fact they are barrel burners..

smarquez
October 5, 2015, 12:52 AM
M96 Kimber Sporter
M96 bubba job
6.5 Jap carbine
Tikka T3 Hunter on it's way.
I reload for all of them.

GeauxTide
October 6, 2015, 02:17 PM
I absolutely love my Alexander. CFE223 shoots clean as a whistle and extremely accurate with 123SST. Going to have the 24" barrel cut to 20" to make it more handy. My other 260 is a Savage 11 SS LH. Shoots lights out with 100gr Partitions.

kcub
October 26, 2015, 08:32 AM
dvdcrr's post is a good one. I think too, there are just too many cartridges.

Yes, 6.5CM for gas guns and .260 for bolt guns is the way I prefer, but if you want both, the 6.5CM. I ran mostly 123 grain bullets in the gas .260 as they were more accurate due to length issues in the AR10 pattern magazines. (I sold my AR10 pattern .260, but kept the bolt guns ) That is where the 6.5CM has the advantage, fitting in AR10 pattern magazines. The .260 was in the lead across the varied groups, but with Ruger now pushing the 6.5CM, that might turn the tide towards the CM. In PRS (long range competition) most of the competitors have 6.5s and other cartridges, but we are seeing more and more go to 6mm (6CM, 6XC, 6x47 etc.) so the LR support has waned a tad for the 6.5s. The 6.5x55 Swede is a good caliber, but a long action, but I don't think it is in trouble yet.

I also have a 6.5PCC and I love it as a mid-range cartridge in the AR15 platform. The 6.5G is a slightly better cartridge, but a little more money, less AR15 parts commonality and there is the issue of feeding. Most guys around here do not fully load their magazines and have no issues. The problem comes when you load more than 10 in a larger magazine, which for most applications is not going to happen anyway. The 6.5G is more popular, but for my uses, the 6.5PCC was a better fit.

The 6.5 bullet selection is great now, and I think it always will be with so much competition in amongst the various cartridges. If you reload, pick one and move on. If you are trying to pick one (using factory ammo) to buy in a bolt gun, toss up between the 6.5CM and .260Rem. in a gas gun, get the 6.5CM.

Target shooting inside 300 yards, go with a .223 or some .223 case based wildcat. Most 6.5s shine from 300 on out to about 1000 depending on what you are doing.
__________________
Good Shooting, MarkCO
www.CarbonArms.us

In the Savage 99 lever gun thread it was posted that 260 would be a better way to go for a rebarrel than 6.5 Creedmoor because of the funky rotary magazine optimized for the .308 family in most recent 99s.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=568096

This seems contradictory to the thought that 6.5 Creedmoor is better for semi autos which use AR10 .308 magazines. Is it just that AR10 magazines are more forgiving than the Savage rotary magazine?

Also, though Ruger is pushing 6.5, Tikka is pushing .260.

DocUSMCRetired
October 26, 2015, 09:58 AM
Some gas guns have issues with 6.5 Creedmoor rounds getting damaged while loading, and require a small modification to feed properly. The whole idea behind the 6.5 is the ability to load 140 grain bullets out longer, giving more case capacity.

However using the correct magazines, you could load a 260 Remington out very far, for instance the KAC 10 round magazines you could easily load out to 2.865".

On that note Sam Barr from Applied Ballistics Munitions made a 1 mile shot with the 130 AR Hybrid. Which is designed to work well in AR 10 platform 260 Remington applications.

Creek Henry
October 26, 2015, 10:59 PM
I have been wanting a 260AI for a while but just haven't pulled the trigger. I don't think the 260 is going away but it has a lot of competition.

Niantician
October 27, 2015, 12:20 AM
I love 6.5s. Very versatile, very accurate. Very good SD. I found this rifle for sale and was surprised. Good price too.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/savage-111-trophy-hunter-xp-package-bolt-action-65x284-norma-19688-011356196880-with-nikon-bdc-scope?a=1788226

stagpanther
October 27, 2015, 02:43 AM
I love 6.5s. Very versatile, very accurate. Very good SD. I found this rifle for sale and was surprised. Good price too.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/produ...cope?a=1788226 I have one--bought mine new for $475 a few years ago I think from Bud's or CTD--can't remember which. Reloading for it--or factory ammo--I've found is quite expensive. Mine shoots OK but I still haven't found the "holy grail" load. Any suggestions? I think the 284 is hampered by a barrel burner reputation.

Niantician
October 27, 2015, 02:49 AM
Yes. Ive heard that too. Heard some benchrest guys getting less than a 1000 rounds out of a barrel. No. No suggestions. Dont even own a 6.5x284.

Geo_Erudite
October 28, 2015, 08:40 PM
For 6.5-284 Norma loads this is probably the best thread (http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/savage-111-lrh-6-5-284-loading-questions-106494/)

6.5-284 Norma vs .300 Win Mag (http://journalofmountainhunting.com/2015/06/head-to-head-the-6-5-284-norma-vs-the-300-win-mag/)

In regards to the 6.5 Creedmoor and performance (http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1496625-hello-2015-now-replace-your-308)

TimW77
October 29, 2015, 05:13 AM
"Reloading for it--or factory ammo--I've found is quite expensive."

Have to agree the factory loads for the .260 Rem are more expensive BUT...

The .260R is virtually the same price to reload as the .243W, 7mm-08 and .308W...

Primer cost is the SAME, powder cost is the SAME, new cases are about the same and can be made from any of these other cases if found for less so the only variable are the bullets which don't vary much if using the same type and near the same weights...

T.

stagpanther
October 29, 2015, 06:48 AM
"Reloading for it--or factory ammo--I've found is quite expensive."

Have to agree the factory loads for the .260 Rem are more expensive BUT...

The .260R is virtually the same price to reload as the .243W, 7mm-08 and .308W...

Primer cost is the SAME, powder cost is the SAME, new cases are about the same and can be made from any of these other cases if found for less so the only variable are the bullets which don't vary much if using the same type and near the same weights...

T.
TimW77 is offline Report Post
I've had several flavors of 6.5--I agree with this, your over-all winner in terms of general affordability, availability, performance and adaptability is probably the 260 rem.

kcub
October 29, 2015, 06:58 AM
What about 160 grain ammo for hunting something larger than deer? What issues with longer bullets? If you want this capability should you stick with 6.5x55 Swede?

stagpanther
October 29, 2015, 07:18 AM
Thanks for those links Geo--great stuff for the 6.5 284 reloader. I've tried some of those formulas but not the short-cut stuff. My opinion--just an opinion--is that there are significant variations in chamber cuts and consequently headspacing across different manufacturers for the 6.5 284 so it's hard to "generalize" performance of one load across many rifle/barrel makes. I've found this caliber to one of the most challenging to measure and reload for. But I'm a bit knucklehead too. ;)

stagpanther
October 29, 2015, 07:34 AM
What about 160 grain ammo for hunting something larger than deer? What issues with longer bullets? If you want this capability should you stick with 6.5x55 Swede? I'm not experienced enough to comment on this.

kcub
October 29, 2015, 09:13 AM
I just mentioned 6.5x55 Swedish because there is heavy factory ammo for it but not the others.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/168?

stagpanther
October 29, 2015, 09:23 AM
In general--6.5 is valued for it's mid to long range capabilities due to it's exceptional ballistics performance--I'm guessing that starts diminishing once you load heavy bullets--and then alternative calibers start becoming more competitive at the closer ranges I assume the bigger 6.5's would need to be used at to be effective on bigger game. Just a guess mind you.

Geo_Erudite
October 29, 2015, 01:13 PM
What about 160 grain ammo for hunting something larger than deer? What issues with longer bullets? If you want this capability should you stick with 6.5x55 Swede?

The the 150+ grain bullets made by Hornady, Lapua, Norma or Woodleigh all have ridiculously high sectional densities. This puts them in the range for CXP3 game. However, even when loaded in the 6.5x55 Swede, 6.5-.284 Norma or .264 Winchester Mag, these bullets aren't travelling at super high speeds. This really limits most people to shoot under 300 yards to be effective on CXP3 game. The 6.5x55 Swede, 6.5-.284 Norma or .264 Winchester Mag are what I consider long action cartridges, so bullet length is not an issue.

I have no idea how these bullets would perform or seat in the short action cartridges of 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor or .260 Remington. Nor do I know how the would perform or seat in the 26 Nosler or Weatherby's new (it's actually been a wildcat for over 50 years) cartridge the 6.5-300 Weatherby Mag.

DocUSMCRetired
October 29, 2015, 01:25 PM
When doing a comparison it is important to look at bullets that are equal relative to their caliber.

For instance
.264 (6.5mm) - 140 Hybrid G7BC 0.319
.308 (7.62mm) - 200 Hybrid G7BC 0.319

While its not uncommon for people to think the 6.5 Creedmoor will out perform the 30 cal offerings. People tend to forget you can go as high as a 230 grain Berger Hybrid with a G7BC 0.380. If you are going to compare the best offerings in each calibers class, don't forget to compare apples to apples.

The 260 Remington is a great cartridge, and so is the 6.5 Creedmoor. But don't forget their are bullets with better ballistics in the other calibers too. You need to compare the equivalents in each caliber, and not just look at the heaviest offerings like the 140 (One of the longest/heaviest bullets in 6.5 offerings) vs the 230 grain (also one of the heaviest highest BC offerings in 30 cal).

This is in reply to a number of different posts combined.

Geo_Erudite
October 29, 2015, 02:34 PM
When doing a comparison it is important to look at bullets that are equal relative to their caliber.

For instance
.264 (6.5mm) - 140 Hybrid G7BC 0.319
.308 (7.62mm) - 200 Hybrid G7BC 0.319

While its not uncommon for people to think the 6.5 Creedmoor will out perform the 30 cal offerings. People tend to forget you can go as high as a 230 grain Berger Hybrid with a G7BC 0.380. If you are going to compare the best offerings in each calibers class, don't forget to compare apples to apples.

The 260 Remington is a great cartridge, and so is the 6.5 Creedmoor. But don't forget their are bullets with better ballistics in the other calibers too. You need to compare the equivalents in each caliber, and not just look at the heaviest offerings like the 140 (One of the longest/heaviest bullets in 6.5 offerings) vs the 230 grain (also one of the heaviest highest BC offerings in 30 cal).

This is in reply to a number of different posts combined.

However, there is a cost to shooting those 200+ grain bullets in any of the .30 caliber cartridges. That cost is recoil. I HATE recoil. Then their is the issue of velocity for the non-magnums in the 200+ grain .30 caliber cartridges. I think this paper sums it up pretty well. (http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/30cal_fullVersion.pdf)

The reality is the best choices out there for long range shooting are 6 mm, 6.5 mm or 7 mm (the BC on the Berger 7 mm 195 EOL is ridiculous). Nothing wrong with the 30 caliber, its just has too many inherent disadvantages.

DocUSMCRetired
October 29, 2015, 02:49 PM
Recoil can be managed, and is application specific. Just like with any rifle, you can greatly reduce recoil. Also keep in mind what you are considering magnum. Some of the guys pushing the 7mm 195 EOL are running magnums. Some of the 6.5 Shooters are also not shooting a standard cartridge, and it shows on their barrel life. Some people burning out barrels at 2000 rounds. Even if you don't think of it as running that kind of load, or classifying it as a true magnum.

My point was if you are going to compare bullets, then make sure you compare the equivalents. Which is one reason I left out the 7mm in the discussion, but also the 6 Creedmoor, and why I talked about the 200 Hybrid when comparing vs the 140 6.5.

The 6.5 is a great cartridge, I own and shoot one. I am just saying to make sure you compare the same standards. I really like the application, just don't compare a heavy weight being fired out of a magnum, to a middle weight being fired out of a standard cartridge and consider it balanced.

Geo_Erudite
October 29, 2015, 03:32 PM
Doc, this is what I don't get. In your first you post a link:

May I direct your attention here: http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/1...-the-pros-use/

In fact it is so popular that Applied Ballistics Munitions now makes 260 Rem ammunition.

Edit: It is also popular enough, that some of the more well known rifle makers are releasing semi-autos in 260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor off the AR 10 Platform.

and then state this:

When doing a comparison it is important to look at bullets that are equal relative to their caliber.

For instance
.264 (6.5mm) - 140 Hybrid G7BC 0.319
.308 (7.62mm) - 200 Hybrid G7BC 0.319

While its not uncommon for people to think the 6.5 Creedmoor will out perform the 30 cal offerings. People tend to forget you can go as high as a 230 grain Berger Hybrid with a G7BC 0.380. If you are going to compare the best offerings in each calibers class, don't forget to compare apples to apples.

The 260 Remington is a great cartridge, and so is the 6.5 Creedmoor. But don't forget their are bullets with better ballistics in the other calibers too. You need to compare the equivalents in each caliber, and not just look at the heaviest offerings like the 140 (One of the longest/heaviest bullets in 6.5 offerings) vs the 230 grain (also one of the heaviest highest BC offerings in 30 cal).

This is in reply to a number of different posts combined.

The professionals have weighed their options and have done extensive comparisons, which include the 6 mm, 6.5 mm, 7 mm and .30 Caliber. They have overwhelmingly gone to the 6 mm and 6.5 mm cartridges.

DocUSMCRetired
October 29, 2015, 03:40 PM
Geo - It was in response to different comments that had been made. Just trying to make sure that if you are going to compare things, that you balance them out correctly.

Like I also stated, I like and use a 6.5 rifle. But it is also misleading to compare a heavy bullet, or a magnum caliber, against a medium bullet if that makes sense. You also have to remember, are we punching paper, or are we hunting. Each has its purpose, and the goal was just to make sure that its a balanced comparison.

Rancid
October 30, 2015, 08:48 AM
I picked up a Wby Vanguard last year in 6.5 CM. It shoots far better than I do.:D I have shot whitetail with it out to 300 yards with 140 grain AMAX with no problems. With steel, I have only shot it out to 500 yards which is the limit of my backyard range. No problem keeping it under a 1/2 MOA with factory Hornady Match 120 AMAX. The same bullet in 140 will shoot 1 MOA. This is a simple Vanguard S2 that retails for around $500. I have a $300 SWFA 12X scope on it. Amazing caliber IMO.